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Original poster

Communication often goes wrong with DP and I just can't work out why

106 replies

Clara9283 · 19/06/2023 01:05

I'm at my wits end...DP is loving, very patient, doesn't have a bad temper etc and we recently got engaged (he proposed). We're also TTC. Everything is going well, we both agree that life is good right now. No stress at work either. But whenever we have a conversation that involves some sort of planning, he just gets very defensive and it ends in a fight. Latest example - wedding plans. I've asked him what his ideas are, like where we should get married, when, etc...I imagined this being a happy and positive conversation. But all he could see were issues. 'This won't work because of abc, that won't work because of xyz'. I'm really not difficult about the wedding, I'm open for any ideas, from a big wedding somewhere to eloping just the two of us, so I don't see why this conversation would cause him stress. In the end he told me that I should just make a plan.

So today, one week later, we had a lovely Sunday, walk in the park, and I mentioned a wedding venue to him...I said that this one is currently on my list of possibilities, and asked him what he thought of it. But he got defensive again, asked me why I ask him because I know that he would be happy to go along with whatever I plan.....(to add, he just looked very uncomfortable from the moment I brought up the topic wedding).

I just don't understand what the problem is. It's in my mind a low stake, happy conversation. We're not even in a rush to book a venue yet, it's just talking about ideas.
I asked him, of course, and he just keeps insisting that he is fine and not upset, and then he asks me why I am upset.

Considering that he proposed very recently, I don't think that he doesn't want to get married. I asked him if he wants to get married but doesn't want a wedding and suggested to do registry office only, but again he asked me why I think that he has a problem with a wedding.

It's not the first time this happened. Although we are TTC (again he was the driving force at the beginning, he always wanted children. I'm on board as well, of course) he doesn't want to talk about how we'd organise ourselves with childcare etc. He wouldn't object if I just told him what to do, but he gets defensive when I try to make plans as a team. Very similar to the wedding situation - I know that he'd happily go along with whatever venue and setting I choose, but he seems to be unable to have a conversation with me about it.

Can anyone help me shed some light on this behaviour? Is he genuinely struggling with talking about plans?

OP posts:
Trisolaris · 19/06/2023 15:06

To clarify - doesn’t have to give me answer right now

LivingDeadGirlUK · 19/06/2023 15:14

How long have you been together OP? I know you say he is great in other aspects of the relationship and pulls his weight but when you add kids to the mix it makes a huge power imbalance especially if you take the full maternity leave.

What every single couple should do before they have kids is sit down and have a thorough discussion about mat leave, childcare, if anyone is going part time, how finances will work, how housework will be divided etc. If he is incapable of having this discussion with you then DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH HIM.

L3ThirtySeven · 19/06/2023 15:22

Although he might be lazy and think it’s your job to organise the wedding, I do wonder whether his reaction both times is due to the subject being sprung on him unexpectedly? My DH is similar in that I plan the family holiday because I’m just better at it. We have a family meeting to decide where and when, and then I do the rest. But I’d never bring up a suggested villa or hotel in the middle of a walk in the park. I usually say I’ve found a possibility or two let me show you & the DC the website photos after dinner to get your opinion. I’ve learned my DH responds better when he has forewarning (he does have ADD), as he really does not think well on the spot. I have DC with ASD as well, and if I tried to get anything from them outside that after dinner window…all I’d get would be grunts or if lucky an exasperated “I don’t know Mum!”

L3ThirtySeven · 19/06/2023 15:23

LivingDeadGirlUK · 19/06/2023 15:14

How long have you been together OP? I know you say he is great in other aspects of the relationship and pulls his weight but when you add kids to the mix it makes a huge power imbalance especially if you take the full maternity leave.

What every single couple should do before they have kids is sit down and have a thorough discussion about mat leave, childcare, if anyone is going part time, how finances will work, how housework will be divided etc. If he is incapable of having this discussion with you then DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH HIM.

This is good advice. If he truly is just not letting you discuss and plan with him at all, you need to stop TTC.

SnapPop · 19/06/2023 15:38

My suggestion is a marriage course OP. My DH and I went on one a few years ago and it really helped to improve our communication.

Merryoldgoat · 19/06/2023 15:43

You would be bonkers to carry on TTC and marrying this man.

You will be left with ALL the mental load, all of the responsibility and he’s be like another child.

He wants to be a passenger.

No thanks.

Greentree1 · 19/06/2023 16:07

You like to discuss everything and explore options, he likes a quiet life and is happy for you to take decisions on family life. Someone has to take the lead and in this relationship it's you, it would be much more annoying if he disagreed with everything you suggested and wanted everything his way. Just tell him what you propose and if he's happy be happy.

Mumsanetta · 19/06/2023 16:25

“He's not lazy usually, he pulls his weight at home and if I ask him to do anything, he would do it.”

@Clara9283 what you are saying is that you take on the mental load and then delegate tasks to him.

Lots has been written about the mental load and how adding children into the mix makes it hard to manage. Here is a comic about the impact of the mental load and I have also attached one of the pictures: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

Here is a BBC article as well as I know that some people don’t like the guardian: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210518-the-hidden-load-how-thinking-of-everything-holds-mums-back

If you take only one thing away from these articles, let it be a word of caution that if you have a baby with your DP you will become the Responsible Person for everything related to your child as well as home. You’re the one who will have to remember that the baby has run out of nappies, has a doctors appointment tomorrow, needs childcare, needs new clothes etc and every single turn you will need to ask your DP to help you as he won’t just do it if his own accord. If you complain that you are responsible for everything and he is not pulling his weight, his response will always be “well, why didn’t you just ask me?”.

Before you shackle yourself to your DP, imagine what it would be like to be with someone who was an active participant in your relationship and a proper partner fully involved in home life and raising children. Really think on what that would be like because I think that’s the type of partner you deserve, not a man-child who needs direction at every turn.

Communication often goes wrong with DP and I just can't work out why
Greentree1 · 19/06/2023 17:04

Mumsanetta · 19/06/2023 16:25

“He's not lazy usually, he pulls his weight at home and if I ask him to do anything, he would do it.”

@Clara9283 what you are saying is that you take on the mental load and then delegate tasks to him.

Lots has been written about the mental load and how adding children into the mix makes it hard to manage. Here is a comic about the impact of the mental load and I have also attached one of the pictures: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic

Here is a BBC article as well as I know that some people don’t like the guardian: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20210518-the-hidden-load-how-thinking-of-everything-holds-mums-back

If you take only one thing away from these articles, let it be a word of caution that if you have a baby with your DP you will become the Responsible Person for everything related to your child as well as home. You’re the one who will have to remember that the baby has run out of nappies, has a doctors appointment tomorrow, needs childcare, needs new clothes etc and every single turn you will need to ask your DP to help you as he won’t just do it if his own accord. If you complain that you are responsible for everything and he is not pulling his weight, his response will always be “well, why didn’t you just ask me?”.

Before you shackle yourself to your DP, imagine what it would be like to be with someone who was an active participant in your relationship and a proper partner fully involved in home life and raising children. Really think on what that would be like because I think that’s the type of partner you deserve, not a man-child who needs direction at every turn.

When children are small it's usually the mother that looks after the Doctor's/nurses appointments, vaccinations, etc, etc. Nappies and other stuff are on the shopping list. Doesn't sound like this DH would shirk his responsibilities, everything regarding children has to be delegated one way or another, if one parent is at work the other picks up the slack the OP never said he needs direction at every turn, just that he's happy to go along with her 'big' plans (so far anyway).

Heartbrokenagainandagain · 19/06/2023 17:13

Oh dear, you’ve bagged your self a ‘ passenger’ be prepared to feel unimportant for the majority of your relationship, an inconvenience if you ask for more and outrageous in about ten years time when you finally raise your bar.

NotLactoseFree · 19/06/2023 17:14

@Greentree1 but he's not even willing to discuss childcare etc. So until now, she cn do the planning and he'll execute. Fine. But what if her plan is that he will do exactly 50% of school/nursery runs when she goes back to work full time? If they'r not even talking about that, I am pretty sure she's going to get a shock when he announces that "actually, no, I can't leave work early/ go late/get up early" and bam, it's all on her again. And that's way more than the mental load - which is bad enough as it is.

He's passive and passive aggressive. Until now, him being passive has not mattered as you've been happy to make the plans and he's been happy to follow them. But the passive aggressive bit will come out when you start making plans that do NOT work for him, most notably, I suspect, when it comes to childcare and other responsibilities that actually take effort and sacrifice.

Original poster
Clara9283 · 19/06/2023 18:48

Thanks to those who gave constructive feedback, it's great to read from others who also struggled with communication at times and found ways and strategies to navigate this. I'm also aware that difficulties with communication can cause issues further down the line when children are in the mix, so I am also grateful for those who gave more critical feedback. It is something that's been on my mind for some time and I agree that this is an issue. Some other stuff seems a bit far fetched but I appreciate that this is hard to judge from a post. I genuinely don't feel unimportant, unloved etc in my relationship, and I've made it very clear to him that children duties will be shared 50/50.

OP posts:
Isthisexpected · 19/06/2023 19:06

You can make it clear it's what you want but that doesn't mean he'll follow through. I suggest relationship counselling as a next step.

Gymnopedie · 19/06/2023 20:18

But it is frustrating for me at times because I'd much prefer to talk through things as a team, discuss the options and then decide.

OP whether you realise it or not, you've just hit the nail on the head yourself. You want to be a team with him, but he doesn't want the same. Why he doesn't is pretty much irrelevant, it doesn't change anything.

Can you see yourself going it alone for ever? Always having to make the decisions, always having to carry the mental load? It can get very wearing after a while. The point of marriage, to me anyway, is that you're declaring to each other and to the world that you're a team. I know it doesn't always work out that way, there are enough threads on here to prove that, but often it doesn't become apparent until after the wedding. Here you've been given advance notice. If teamwork is what you want from your relationship he's not going to provide it, at least on the big things.

ScreamingBeans · 19/06/2023 20:33

Jesus Christ why do women want to live with men like this.

MeridaBrave · 19/06/2023 20:36

Red flags. I’d tell him the TTC is on hold until he is ready to have a conversation about childcare and also more importantly the split of responsibility (whose getting up in night when you go back to work, whose getting home for bedtime and bath time etc). Ask him when it’s a good time to discuss. If he puts it off the conversation more than once RUN A MILE.
Same with wedding planning. Schedule a time to discuss.

You have been warned.

Rainwind65 · 19/06/2023 20:56

Have to agree with PP. After 10 years with 2 kids, you having to organise everything down to holiday, clubs, remortgage, schools, birthdays etc will wear you down and make you resent your 'happy go lucky' defensive un
planner. A massive red flag as a life partner.

Pixiedust1234 · 19/06/2023 21:14

I've made it very clear to him that children duties will be shared 50/50.

Me too but guess what. When it was time for him to do his share the excuses came. He's got to work late, he's swapped shifts, he's tired, he's offered to go in early and can't let the boss down, we need the overtime money, you do it better, the baby wants you not me. You can't both leave the baby by itself...so you give in. And before you know it, it will be 5/95. Same with chores. Booking tradesmen. Holidays. All of life admin. Eventually you will be grateful he takes the bins out every week.

The posters that you said were more critical. We were you once. We had faith that we had a decent man and we could work it out but in twenty years time you will be us. I sincerely hope not, I really do, but this is how it starts.

Frankenpug23 · 19/06/2023 21:43

Take a step back and enjoy being engaged - unless there’s a reason for you to start planning now. My husband didn’t care what we did to be honest as long as we got married- I talked to him about it and he vaguely listened! He sorted his suits and that was it. He certainly isn’t lazy works hard, does his equal amount of housework, does the majority of the kids taxiing, and I do the life admin stuff kid’s birthday presents, organising parties (when they had them) etc but he always came and helped!!

Its just not my husbands strength and it maybe isn’t your boyfriends but he gets defensive as he thinks it should be or he feels under pressure to talk about it!

However the kids thing needs sorting - you cannot get married until the way forward has been agreed.

celticprincess · 19/06/2023 21:53

He sounds a bit demand avoidant. What’s he like with other decisions or potential demands on his time? Does he have any autistic traits?? Look up ASD with PDA.

CurlewKate · 19/06/2023 22:09

@Clara9283 "I've made it very clear to him that children duties will be shared 50/50."
Has he made it very clear to you that he agrees?

NotNowGertrude · 19/06/2023 22:52

It doesn't sound like he's interested

EarthSight · 19/06/2023 23:14

This is not a communication issue OP. It's bigger than that.

I just don't understand what the problem is. It's in my mind a low stake, happy conversation

You're not on the same page, and you don't want the same things. This is why this isn't flowing as how you imagined.

On the plus side, I would get to organise everything the way I want and he also doesn't moan about any decisions I made or things I organised

Keep telling yourself that OP, because this isn't how it's going to pan out. You're just gaslighting yourself, minimising what you need in a relationship. You want someone who you feel like you're in a team with. It's an emotional need of yours. Not having this will result in you feeling really lonely, and you'll eventually become sad and resentful about his attitude.

to add, he just looked very uncomfortable from the moment I brought up the topic wedding

I find it interesting that he was a bit keener than you to have kids....yet he looks uncomfortable when you talk about the wedding, has no patience to discuss plans with you, and shoots down your ideas........that doesn't sound like someone who wants to get married. I would stop trying for a baby asap and get the wedding out of the way first, because it wouldn't surprise me if he's secretly hoping you'll get pregnant and will simply be too distracted then to think about it. Then, any leverage you did have will be gone and I can see him stringing you along and delaying getting married for ages.

It'll be 'Why are we getting married anyway? We already have kids. Aren't we alright as we are?

he doesn't want to talk about how we'd organise ourselves with childcare

Honestly, OP, he can fuck off with that attitude. He doesn't want to talk about something so incredibly important and fundamental? Tough. No babies for him then.

What he doesn't want is to enter into a honest conversation where you can negotiate what you want, so he shuts down the possibility completely.

There's no use declaring to him that you expect 50/50 childcare OP! Maybe that makes you feel better that you've said it out aloud to him, but that's not an agreement. . I can bet in his head he's going 'we'll see about that' and just remain silent for now. Then when the kids arrive, he will proceed to do whatveer he wants.

I'd never have kids with someone who wasn't willing to discuss things like this.

EarthSight · 19/06/2023 23:21

Pixiedust1234 · 19/06/2023 21:14

I've made it very clear to him that children duties will be shared 50/50.

Me too but guess what. When it was time for him to do his share the excuses came. He's got to work late, he's swapped shifts, he's tired, he's offered to go in early and can't let the boss down, we need the overtime money, you do it better, the baby wants you not me. You can't both leave the baby by itself...so you give in. And before you know it, it will be 5/95. Same with chores. Booking tradesmen. Holidays. All of life admin. Eventually you will be grateful he takes the bins out every week.

The posters that you said were more critical. We were you once. We had faith that we had a decent man and we could work it out but in twenty years time you will be us. I sincerely hope not, I really do, but this is how it starts.

I had a boyfriend once when I was very young who got me to book plane tickets to see each other in the holidays (university days, lived opposite sides of the U.K to each other). He would get flustered, said he was rubbish with technology (funny how it never affected his ability to navigate porn websites), and when it came to him paying me back (we were meant to split the costs), there was always an issue which made it a hassle. He would drag it out and make me out as if I was unreasonable for asking. I didn't know the term strategic incompetence but I do now. I realised, 100%, that he was the type you described in your post and if we had proceeded to live together, I would have been manoeuvred into doing absolutely everything. His mum still did his internet banking into his mid-20s, which is just shocking to me. He was perfectly capable, just lazy and entitled to women in his life fluttering around him to make it easier.

FictionalCharacter · 20/06/2023 07:09

Greentree1 · 19/06/2023 16:07

You like to discuss everything and explore options, he likes a quiet life and is happy for you to take decisions on family life. Someone has to take the lead and in this relationship it's you, it would be much more annoying if he disagreed with everything you suggested and wanted everything his way. Just tell him what you propose and if he's happy be happy.

He is disagreeing with everything she suggested about the wedding though. And not suggesting alternatives.