DH friend kissed me on mouth (again). Told him not to - now *I* feel bad

[cabbageandgravy]

Ugh this is so awkward, I probably just need to vent. Very old friend of DH, they also work together. DH enjoys spending time and working with him, and he gets DH interesting work, too.

And I don't mind him (think he's a bit boring but that's not a crime!) except - he had this awful 70s and 80s throwback habit of kissing me (and , I think, other women he knows) on the mouth when he greets us. I thought hooray after the pandemic, that will put a stop to it. And it seemed to have - but today, he came round, and - straight for the mouth. Not enough warning to flinch away.

I realised I needed to don the big girl pants so I said to him "DH friend do you always kiss DH on the mouth when you greet him?" and he mumbled about a hug and had he really kissed me on the mouth and he hadn't intended to and... so I just cut him off with "just don't do it".

DH overheard but wasn't in the room.

Now they are right outside the door working on a boys' project and I just feel shit. It's so AWKWARD. I know I won't relax till he's gone and he's gonna be here all morning 😥. I just want some nice brisk replies about female socialisation to help me feel a bit more objective about this, and not just want to snivel. I'm 65 ffs and NOT A WUSS! But here I am feeling bad for standing up for myself...

Talk to me objectively!

Objectively - WELL DONE YOU. What a creep. Think about how you would advise another woman you know / a woman on here. This is on him, not you, you've done nothing wrong.

Thanks @tortiecat . Really, thank you. I've sat up a bit straighter!

Don’t feel bad, you have done absolutely nothing wrong at all.
Well done for speaking out

Well done you!!

Nothing more for you to think about here. Job well done and thank you on behalf of us 48 year olds who don’t always have the guts to say something.

Ah Mumsnet is terrific. I feel relaxed enough to put on my shoes and go outside past them and out for my walk. Thank you all so much.

Curious to know if anyone else has felt similar in similar circumstances. I guess some of it is just adrenaline isn't it? You're all fab anyway :)

When I was in my 20s I had a boss who used to massage womens shoulders at their desk.
When he did it to an older female colleague she sharply said "don't touch me like that!" And I found her totally inspirational!

If I'd seen you do that to this guy, I'd feel the same. Well done

I know that guilt after speaking up but you did the right thing.
The guilt lessens the more you speak up for yourself. Well done.

You should feel excited as you finally got rid of something that was bothering you like when you take off bra after a long tiring day.
Just be friendly as usual ( and as much as you want) the rest of the day.
You’ve done well. I absolutely hate anyone except DH kissing me on the lips. I would physically move away from him tbh with clear disgust on my face.
what was he hoping to achieve by these kisses , extra cup of tea and biscuit or a shag?

Well done OP.

Best get it out there firmly.

When I stayed with my husbands lovely family for the first time 30 + years ago, I saw him do this, as did his brother to their sisters.

His brother went for my lips, but I swerved 😳.

They are a loving, kind family.
I really like them.

It gave me the 😳🤢....but I didn't say anything of course.

However, he was greeting my good friend a couple of years later and did it.

I nearly passed out.

It was a complete No No in my opinion.

That evening I spelt it out in very clear language that what he did in his family was his business, but if her ever kissed one of my friends on the lips again I would have a huge problem.

I explained it was totally ICK and most women DO NOT LIKE IT AT ALL.

I explained that I would be very embarrassed if he did because my friends would think it ick too, AND it is a boundary thing that women can feel very strongly about .

He's a lovely man, he was very surprised but totally got what I meant and didn't do it again.

Next time he went in and swerved last minute. 😁
That happened a few times and then it was bedded in.

Perhaps mine was an over reaction but I would find a man doing that a huge violation of my space🤢🤷🏻‍♀️.

I'm not a particularly tactile person though!
I am very conscious about making sure I hug my children regularly as a result.

He hugs his sisters now, now that I come to think about it.

👏Well done, OP.

Thanks all! To be honest Im still cross - hardly surprising after 15 years of mounting annoyance (i mean, i only ever see him a couple of times a year but still...) Bit worried that now I am going to find I really don't like the guy at all! Which would be awkward. So @billy1966 story has given me a bit of hope. i must channel my inner billy, and consider that I have done him a service.

I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself, you shouldn't have to of course but you did it well and hopefully he'll think twice about doing it again. Well done you, don't let him make you feel bad!

You nailed it OP, not just the request but also that this is socialisation.

Many of us feel guilty after putting in place a reasonable boundary. It seems to affect women more than men, maybe because as girls, we were taught to be polite and put everyone at ease?

Bur each time you request a reasonable boundary, you'll feel less guilty. Honestly, it'll make you life better think of those 15 years of annoyance and ick feeling, gone.

Watch this and then come out screaming.. let that fury out..

"Women have been trained to think that we are overreacting or that we're being too sensitive or unreasonable. We swallow the furious feelings. That fury sits deep inside as we practice our smiles."
Watch the full talk from Tracee Ellis Ross here: http://t.ted.com/DRsMsrl

Good for you! Maybe he'll stop doing it to other women too. What a fucking creep

Well done OP. I understand the feeling embarrassed thing, but if you hadn’t said anything you’d be annoyed that you hadn’t.

His response shows that he’s a creep and knows he shouldn’t have been doing it. He should have said “I’m so sorry, I won’t do it again”.

Have you spoken to your DH before about the lip kissing?

I think my abhorrence is definitely because of Uncle's and even Aunties doing it years ago as a child.

Nothing sinister, but definitely it gave me the Ick as a child.

I have a very strong reaction to anyone kissing a baby on the lips too, from a hygiene position as much as anything else.

Lip kissing is a very intimate act.

Certainly not for random men to feel entitled to.

My gorgeous late FIL never did it, funnily enough.

@Hazelnuttella I don't think I actually said anything to DH until the pandemic when of course I thought he'd stopped. He gets it but he's abit of an appeaser . Be interested to find out later if either of them said anything.

He must be one of very few men who would tolerate their friends kissing their wives on the mouths. Well done for standing up to the creepy inappropriate bastard yourself. You need to make it clear to your DH that this is not appropriate behaviour.

I don't think this has ever been a thing, at least where I'm from. I'm pretty sure if you went around trying to snog your mates' wives in the 80's round our way you'd get a fist in the face.

Can I correct one thing op? This is not a throwback from the 70's or 80's. I was born in the 60's and I've never known it be a thing. If anything people are more touchy felly now than they were then.

He is simply a creep.

Totally agree knittingaddict.

Wtg no way do I want kissed on the lips other than my other half and kids. That creeps me out even thinking about it

As a young late teens and naive girl in my first job there was an older man (probably around 40 but older man in my eyes) who constantly and at every opportunity would make lewd comments and suggestive remarks. He never touched me but I was far too timid to confront and challenge him.

The me now would have stopped him in his tracks and in my mind would have done much worse to him.

This thread reminded me of that memory so sorry a bit off topic.

Well done OP! Good work. I love the way you handled by pointing out he wouldn't do the same to your DH - I think that was genius. Don't feel bad you are a shero!