My BF and my ex

[RandomRandomness]

Condensed version:
Friends with R since childhood, we start a relationship a few years ago which I ended last year on good terms. R initially struggles to accept it’s over and tries to manipulate his way back in until he finds out I’d slept with someone else. He gets upset/angry and has since stopped all contact.

After we broke up, R starts spending a few evenings most weeks with S, my closest and longest standing friend (aside from R). They’ve never had a friendship outside of the three of us but they get on well and are into the same things.

I was fine with this to begin with as I still felt that R was a good person and a friend, just struggling a bit to accept it was over. But the way he behaved when he found out I’d moved on has made me see things differently. I’m looking back at our history and realising that he’s not so nice after all but he has everyone convinced he’s this amazing selfless person, particularly S.

S and I have discussed the situation and I’ve made it clear that whilst I’m fine with them hanging out, I’m getting sick of seeing him on SM posts and seeing him/his car all the time in our little village when he lives in the next town over. He’s making no effort to collect the half a room’s worth of things he’s left at mine. I feel like he’s still semi in my life and there’s no way to purge him entirely.

Just recently, I’ve felt like S is starting to distance herself from me. A few times I’ve asked if we can meet up and she’s ignored it or not got back to me with a date for things I’ve suggested. I know she’s incredibly busy and in between she has invited me to stuff. But I can’t help but feel really rejected and like she must prefer R’s company over mine. They meet up several times a week and go to various things together despite him telling me at one point that he finds her annoying as all she does is talk about herself and he’s only hanging out with her because he can’t stand being alone.

They are both quite extroverted and have many friendship groups whereas for me, they are/were my best and closest friends. I’ve since been making much more effort with acquaintances and doing new things but I just feel so upset that I’ve lost them both (or who I thought R was) as they’re the only people bar my children that I can really be myself with. I don’t want to overburden S or put her in an awkward position so I’m just sucking it up for now but I wonder if it might just be less painful to let them both go.

Has anyone got advice on how I can stop feeling so sad about this situation please? I feel like I’m in limbo and don’t know how to move on and this has been going on months now 😞

Well done for sorting it out. Until then maybe you could ask the doctor for some emergency help? Counselling takes a while to have an effect anyway.
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/sleeping-pills-and-minor-tranquillisers/sleeping-pills/
I used anti-histamines at night - just half a dose is enough for me to sleep better but wake up refreshed rather than still tired. You can get those from the chemist's without a prescription.
Or if you don't fancy that, then try doing tiring exercise before bed? And don't make yourself sleep if you're not tired - do something soothing like listening to a podcast or having a hot chocolate and toast.

Oh, and if you are not using the pill as contraception then you could ask the chemist for some high-strength St John's Wort - it interacts with various things so be sure to ask the chemist rather than buying it off the shelf (the chemist will also have higher doses, and know whether it is OK with sleeping pills if you do try those). https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/complementary-and-alternative-therapies/st-john-s-wort/

Thank you for the advice @80s, I really appreciate it. I’m finding it really helpful writing it out here (and then rereading) although I don’t expect any replies.

I'm surprisingly feeling okish at the moment. On the one hand, my MOT today cost me nearly £700, the drain repair is going to cost more than they thought and I clicked ‘save’ on the online job application and lost the whole lot after 2 hours of work and 2 hours before the deadline.

BUT, I went to a new exercise class tonight and despite the heat and my unfitness, I did the whole hour relatively easily and loved it!

The drain is now repaired and we can use the toilet again 🙌

I didn’t give up and redid the application in an hour and submitted in time. It’s not nearly as good as the first version but hopefully I’ve done enough for an interview. Doing the application was a good distraction and a confidence boost as I reamed off my experience.

That 15 minutes with the therapist was so helpful. I’m actually excited to start properly. I told her about the situation and one thing she said that really stuck out was that it sounds like I was in a controlling relationship. It was so validating. She also said she was proud of me for taking control of the situation and blocking them both which made me feel good as well.

I sometimes felt like I was being controlled but he’s so subtle with it so you question if it’s really happening or you’re just imagining it. The controlling men I’ve previously dated have been way more obvious with it. So for example, he might ask me a question I knew he would definitely not like the answer to, putting me in a no win situation. If I lied everything was ok. If I told him the truth and it wasn’t what he wanted to hear, he might react by going into a depressive state, standing and staring at the floor. I’d try to comfort him, ask him what was the matter, did he want to talk about it? But he’d just stand there saying ‘no’. I’d say ‘do you want to go home then’. Also no. So I’d just sit there with this awful atmosphere, not talking, not wanting to leave him alone in my house. Like he was forcing me to witness his terrible mood for an hour. If I’m moody or upset, I tell everyone I’m not in a good mood and take myself off to sulk alone so I didn’t get it but I know he has MH problems so I didn’t want to be too hard on him. Or he’d twist my words - a couple of months after we’d split up, he asked me over the phone if I loved him. I said ‘I love you like a brother’ and he started wailing and crying that I wasn’t attracted to him because he’s fat. So I ended up just telling him I do still love him like that but we still can’t be together. Thing is, I don’t know if he’s doing it maliciously and deliberately or if he’s not even aware he’s doing it and is just using his available tools to get what he wants.

I asked her what I should do to deal with the pain and she told me to exercise self care, exercise to calm the adrenaline, and speak to myself as if I were a friend. I’ve been telling myself how proud I am of me for surviving so much and still standing. I’m being so brave going to new places on my own instead of clinging to an inappropriate relationship like they are. I'm already moving on.

Anyway, it’s done the trick. My self esteem has been somewhat restored. I got a good few hours sleep last night which has helped massively. I have a low level heartache in the background and still tearful when I think about it but now I’m crying for myself instead of them. I’m starting to see that Amazonian Warrior too @80s. Just hope this feeling lasts.

A female friend disappointed me by showing no loyalty to me and making excuses on the other person's behalf. I don't see it as her mediating or trying to advocate and help me see the other person's point of view. I feel there is a very clear right side and I'm firmly on it - there aren't grey areas.

I started to feel they were ganging up on me and trying to make me the bad guy. I've left them to it. I have tried to talk things over but the friend diverts the conversation. I felt our friendship deserved the effort but I got nowhere.

I think the issues in my relationship with the other person trigger her. She identifies more on the other person's side as they have similar personalities - a bit immature, too reliant on others to solve their problems and not accepting responsibility for their actions. Finding fault with one exposes the other.

I now need to look at why I am drawn to relationships that are ultimately damaging and make me unhappy.

I've felt very lonely and started socialising with a new person. I then realised I was falling into the same patterns. Some compromises shouldn't be made. Firm boundaries need to be kept up.

It's taken me months to get my head around everything. It was a painful journey but I'm now in a better place.

Gawd, S is a classic frenemy. Could her response be anymore patronising and smug! Block her, she is garbage that needs to be disposed of. Trust me, the sooner you dump all of that dead weight, the better your life will be.

Random, look at you! You are doing so well, already you are looking at how to heal and healthily assessing which relationships work for you and which no longer serve you.
The behaviour you describe in the ex (going quiet, looking at the floor, not being prepared to tell you what is wrong but making it clear something is) CLASSIC manipulation. It is also abusive.
You are SO much better out of the relationship with this man, and your so called friend.

Yay for a working loo.

You have done brilliantly and are doing brilliantly.
Your friend is a fool.
Your ex is a manipulative wanker.

Keep it up.

Hi OP, Mum said you’re having a hard time at the moment and I’m sorry about that. I did come across your post, and wanted to clarify a few things.
Thanks.

I didn’t cut you out because of “sibling rivalry”. I actually sent a long, heartfelt text explaining exactly why I couldn’t continue to be around you, but you have clearly forgotten or chose to ignore. You never replied to this by the way. Nice to know “S” got far more consideration, even though you don’t even like her really (you’ve slagged her off to me for years).
I haven’t forgotten the message, the problem is, I also read your threads at the time and they made your feelings about me, mum and dad, clear. I didn’t message S for her benefit but mine so I could draw a line. Fair, but name me just one of our mutual friends that you haven’t also slagged off at some point? We’d become closer since you stopped talking to me.

The guy you dated (A) was not an “acquaintance” of my EX. They had been friends for years in a larger group of people from where they were from, and you met him through EX when you came to my house. I invited you over that night because you were upset about “B” (a different narcissistic fuck who I tried to get you away from). The next morning, you told me “A” had forced you to have unprotected sex with him on my sofa. I was angry he did this to you and knew immediately he was bad news. I told you to leave him alone but you wouldn’t listen. I was trying to protect you, you are so fucking hopelessly naive and vulnerable around men, something I hope you can work on in counselling.
You are honestly overestimating their level of friendship. He was willing to be a witness against him. Thanks for trying to protect me but surely you must know that you have to let people find out for themselves especially as you’re also hopelessly naive and vulnerable around men. A sisters role is to support her sibling in her decisions and to give advice but you can’t force someone to take the path you would.

A week after you had met “A” once, me and Ex broke up and he began a campaign of harassment, stalking and abuse against me, including at work. He was trying to get me struck off from my profession, something you know means everything to me after my DC. He sent emails that went right to the top about me, sent pictures of me to my boss etc. And was ultimately convicted of harassment with a restraining order. EX is an extremely dangerous sociopath. He has been to prison multiple times, has seriously abused and assaulted other people (including GBH) and I was in real danger.
Yes, I remember and I felt terrible for you. He is indeed a psychopath.

This was one of the worst times of my life. I was absolutely terrified for months and nearly had a breakdown. I was signed off work and couldn’t even look after my children. You and “A” were witnesses to the ongoing police investigation and I begged you to leave things with him so that he wouldn’t feed information back to EX. Instead of protecting me as your little sister, you chose to keep the link going with “A”. He sexually coerced you but you wanted me to give the relationship my blessing.
I didn’t tell him anything after you said that so there was no risk of him feeding anything back and I tried to reassure you of that but I understand you were worried about it. You also didn’t say anything until that text and presented it as a ‘me or him’ choice. I didn’t ‘choose’ him as you have deemed it, but I was just a bit fed up of being told what to do by other people.

I remember one time we were on the phone and “A” had told you EX wanted to kill himself because i had left him. This was part of EX’s emotional abuse and blackmail, and you allowed him to still be able to get to me, through my own sister. Again, you’re totally oblivious. I said fine, if you’re going to continue seeing “A”, don’t talk about him to me, don’t talk about me to him, and don’t bring him near my children. You didn’t know this man at all but were willing to risk everything for me to get your validation. You even tried to bring him to Mum and Dad’s that Xmas, where you knew my children would be.
Yeah, I’m sorry about that. I thought I was giving you ‘good news’ i.e. that he was having a horrible time but I can see now that that was inappropriate. I don’t think we should start an argument about bringing BFs at Xmas - A didn’t come that year but your ex’s other friend, N was there. You never gave A a chance just because he knew your ex and that upset me because I liked him. I have always given your BFs a chance while you were with them because I understood it was your decision and I should support you in that.

You constantly would call me and say you didn’t know who to choose, “A” or “R”, you felt so guilty on “A” because you slept with “R” etc. etc. Every boundary I tried to put in place to continue a relationship with you, you ignored. Having to listen to this when my life was falling apart all around me made me see your deep selfishness when it comes to men. Maybe this is something you are able to relate to now, given your situation?
I am sorry if you felt I was being selfish at the time. I thought I was just sharing my problems with my sister, just as you were doing, although your situation was obviously worse. I don’t think these situations are comparable. Maybe if I’d started dating your ex or N rather than their friend.

You can justify everything above to yourself I’m sure. “A” probably filled your head with lies and you believed them all over the people who actually love you. But what I have written is my truth and until you are able to acknowledge how awful your behaviour was, our family will never be able to go back to being together.
I have my version and view of events. Just because I have a different perspective, doesn’t make me wrong.

I won’t even comment on the other shit you’ve said about me. To be honest, the above was just the final straw in our relationship. There’s been so many other things over the years which I struggle to forgive you for. The one thing I really hope you gain from this is to put your DC’s first and stop making them live with or be exposed to men who abuse them or their mother and stop imposing them on our family. It’s been their life for years and it will inevitably lead to them following your behaviour and being abused themselves. It’s down to you to get the help to stop the cycle of trauma.
I’m sorry if I’ve done other ‘unforgivable’ things. I’m really pleased for you that you’re in a better place and are able to be a better mother than me.

I’m not saying I haven’t made mistakes, I too am a victim of our childhood and having ASD has made me vulnerable. I’ve worked very hard to overcome a lot of this and hope you are able to do the same.
Well done for putting the work in.

This thread was not about you, I mentioned our situation to give context to the number of people I’ve lost recently. I think it’s pretty mean to come onto this thread and add to my sense of conflict and anguish with the people in my life just at the point I was starting to feel better. I didn’t find it easy to read any of the multiple threads you’ve started about me either, and wanted to give my side and all the bits you left out, but I didn’t because I knew that was your space to vent and it hardly mattered to a bunch of strangers. Just as the situation was with A, not everything is about you. If you really had to say all this, a PM would have been more appropriate.

Thank you so much everyone for the support, I’ve found it immensely valuable in getting me through the last few painful days. Unfortunately, I don’t feel able to post on the thread any longer and will probably ask for it to be deleted.

I think you’re out of order custard.

Absolutely fine to describe a situation roughly or even totally differently if you are answering a stranger's question and want to maintain some privacy. And we all present things from our point of view, whether other people like/agree with it or not.
Hope the thread was some use at least Random!

I reread this thread for the first time in months and I just wanted to again sincerely thank everyone who posted advice at the time. You will never know how much you helped me at one of the lowest times in my life.

It was upsetting to read the desperation and confusion in my posts and the belief that I was somehow responsible for what had happened. But everyone was bang on the money that with some time and perspective, I would see S for who she really is. I’m astounded at how you could all see her so clearly just from the little I’d posted and it’s uncanny reading it back with the benefit of hindsight.

I think back to what she was doing and saying at the time and it’s so obvious now that she was being terribly cruel but I only wanted to see the best in her. She created a drama triangle so she could step into the rescuer role which suited R with his need to be a victim, framing me as the persecutor. I can see it all so clearly now, she was jealous of me and enjoying the power she held in the situation. I feel foolish for being so trusting and even feeling guilty for putting her in the middle. Now I can see just how pathetic and needy they both are.

Things are much better for me now and I’m well on my way to moving past what’s happened and letting it go. I’m seeing a very good councillor who’s helping me to address my past trauma and I feel like I’ve turned a corner. I’ve put all my energy into rebuilding and have had a brilliant summer making new friends and doing new things. The highlight was seeing a meteorite blaze through a star-filled sky as I was leaving an illegal rave in the middle of nowhere! I would never have done that if I’d still been clinging to them.

If anyone stumbles across this thread because they find themselves in a similar position, I know you’re confused and hurting, and no, it’s not fair, but I promise you will get through it and one day be glad they showed you who they really are. Hang on in there x

With the distance of not being involved, or of hindsight, it's so much clearer, isn't it? :) Glad to hear that you are making some positive changes.

Well, it seems those who thought S was making a play for R were absolutely right. I heard through the grapevine recently that he ingratiated himself into their lives, taking her son for days out, spending all his time there etc. and that she was desperate for something to happen between them.

But then one day, he told her he’d started a relationship and so wouldn’t be coming round any more. I don’t know if they’re still friends but it must have stung to just he dropped like that. I tried to tell her he’s not as nice as people think but I guess she thought it would be different with her. I actually feel quite sorry for her.

She well deserves it OP.
And you're fortunate to be rid of them both.
I would be careful lest she tries to be all friends with you again.