Alienated step children-dilemma

[lastminutewednesday]

We are in a really tricky situation-sorry this long but just wanted to get some perspective if possible from people who aren't in it themselves and who therefore might be able to see the wood for the trees.

A year ago my now Dh's ex wife decided she was moving 52 miles away to move in with her new boyfriend and she was taking his boys (my DSS's 9 and 10 with her).
DH had at that point had them 50/50 since his divorce 2 years prior.
DH attempted to get a prohibited steps order to prevent this. His ex wife made false allegations of drug abuse, domestic violence, stalking and financial control. These were disproven in court but as the ex wife had already purchased her house in the new town and because historically she had worked part time (though is now full time) whereas DH had worked longer hours during their marriage, the court allowed the boys to be moved but awarded us 40% time with them. There was also an extremely flawed cafcass report and a lot of the time in court was spent, from both sides, trying to iron out the issues with it.

The court order meant that we have to take the boys to school on our mornings with them ( a 3 hour round trip) and pick them up half way back on our nights with them.
This is a huge amount of time for us and cost in travel.
The court order also stated that they must continue to play for the football team where we live. The ex wife wanted to enrol them in the team local to them in which her new boyfriend is active. The court said they must continue to play for the side they always had and she must endeavour to bring them on her weekends to play there for a year and then they can choose. She has never done this, and instead enrolled them in the team near her-so they played every other weekend for each side. The football was important to dh-it was 'their thing' and it also meant they would maintain friendships and have some link to where we live and where they grew up still.

During the year that this arrangement has been in place the ex wife has
worked hard to alienate the children from us. Withholding contact for silly reasons,
refusing to Compromise on dates where family events fell on 'her' weekends, refusing to allow them to come to our planned wedding with a years notice, then going mad because they didn't come to our eventual tiny wedding (which was just Dh and I because by that point the stress was too much to do anything else), bad mouthing Dh and I, refusing phone calls and taking DSS1's phone from
Him so we can't call
Him (we go weeks at times without hearing from them), etc etc

Unfortunately the boys have succumbed a bit to this (they don't know any better, and at times they seem quite scared of her). It comes out in the way they speak to DH and the way they behave.

She emailed us last week to say the boys have chosen to stop playing football local to us and want to play for the team near her, so we will need to bring them on both Saturday and Sunday of our weekends. And we will
Need to change our routine of days in the week as training falls on one of them.
Dh and I have already altered our work schedules hugely
To accommodate the current routine. We spend 14 hours in the car a week travelling between places. It costs us about £400 in petrol. This will only increase if we have to take them on weekends too, plus we will have no family time to speak of at all (I have two older DD's that love their step brothers).

The ex wife has said the boys are 'desperate'to play for the team up there and it will ruin their football 'careers' if we don't facilitate this. She has passed that hyperbole onto the boys themselves and so now we are in a no win situation-if we agree to it it will have an awful effect on our family life and finances. If we don't she will
Use to it further turn the boys against their Dad and to a lesser extent me.

We have begun to feel the only solution is for DH to rent a flat near her, live there with the boys on our time with them, and spend the rest of the time home with me. This will be expensive but we will
Save so much on petrol etc and I can go back to work Full time as I won't have to do the long school runs, so will
Be earning more towards it. It's just about doable if we cut anything nice in life out and work like the clappers. It will obliterate our savings.
Dh would also ask for more nights with the boys and Could be involved more with the life they have in the new town-as is we pick them them up and drop them off but it's too far for their friends to come and see them on our weekends etc-and without the link to local football they won't really have friends near us anymore (which is why we wanted it in the first place).

But: This means that we won't be together half the time. We will never get any family time with my girls (after two more years they will be off to uni so I can move to the new town too, but we can't go now as they are doing a levels where we now live and their own dad is here). We will be getting absolutely rinsed on running two houses. DD2 has some mental health issues and it's going to be harder to manage those if I go back to work full time, though her Dad might be able to help. She feels a bit upset that I won't be around over the summer as much as would be at work. (I went self employed a year ago-gig economy stuff that meant i could
Be where was needed for all the kids).

The ex wife will oppose it if we choose to do the two houses and will inevitably make life as hard as possible.

But We either do this, or we lose the boys one way or another.

We just can't decide what to do, and we need to and Quickly as I've been offered a new job that offers a bit of flex which will help-and if we are going to do anything it needs to be asap before school etc starts next year .

Dh and I have both been in bits all weekend.

Had anyone any other suggestions of what we can do or how this might work?
It's so bloody stressful .

Jesus OP, she really has you over a barrel. Honestly, I would resent like fuck using all my savings for a second property. He is asking for an awful lot from you though know it will be coming from a place of desperation. I would be changing to every other weekend, pick up on Friday from school and dropping back at school on the monday and unfortunately the boys won't be able to play football that weekend they are with you unless she is willing to come and pick them up. Go through the courts to set this schedule. You cannot get a second property for the sake of a 9 & 10 year old boy playing football 🙄. Obviously maintainance will go up but it will still cost you less than what you a paying for now.
Sorry if I sound ruthless but it is what it is. The boys won't love or respect him more for giving in to demands. What he needs to do is lay down boundaries and stay firm but fair.

With respect but you are mad to consider this. I also have similar aged step children and the mum moved 2.5 hours away. She demanded similar to you that “the boys were desperate to play football” and we had to enrol them in a local club so they could play at weekends with us as otherwise they wouldn’t want to come anymore. She got told in no uncertain terms that it’s not up to her to dictate their dads contact time and we would not be enrolling them, at extra cost and extra time for something rigid that didn’t suit the whole family.

Your husband needs to grow a pair and tell her that you won’t be spending your lives running around after her. Absolute NO to driving them both days there and back for bloody football! Spending all of your disposable income on petrol or a second house is ridiculous and will strip you of any joy, time together, future prospects, etc. for something that a spiteful ex wants. The kids don’t get to decide! They are children and do as they are told. Unbelievable you are considering neglecting your own daughters well-being to work more, in order to pay for a second apartment to facilitate contact on ridiculous terms. You have to refuse this. It’s not possible or reasonable. See what the mum says when she suddenly has no child free time at all! Ours used to threaten to withhold contact until she realised how inconvenient it is for her and soon they were back. Good luck to you.

I would be telling the boys "your mum thinks this will be in your best interests so we are going to see how it goes, I still love you and will miss you but I dont want you to miss out on doing the things you want to do"

I think you need to go back to court to reassess the order.

Go for EOW Friday - Monday so 3/14 nights (1.5 nights for 45 weeks = 68 nights) plus half of school holidays (7 weeks = 49 nights).

117 nights per year = 32%. So call it 70/30 shared care.

Vastly less messing around for not much difference in contact. And a pattern a court would agree is better for the children.

If I were you also I would start concentrating on what's best for MY children. Its all very well making all these changes for his kids but what about yours? There is no way on earth I would allow ANYONE to take from my children. I feel you have been sucked into his drama with his ex and children and have put all of them in front of your girls. Just step back, think about what's best for you and yours. You will be no better thought of for any sacrifices you make.

It's not taking me from my children other than instead of part time work where I can Bob in and out the house during the day over the summer (it's dd2's long post GCSE summer) it will be 9-5 out of the house. Other than that I'll be living in our house with my girls as is the situation now.

I get that on paper it seems crazy. But DH has seen his relationship with the boys deteriorate so rapidly and neither of us want that to continue. It will only get worse as they get older and want to socialise with their school friends up there etc. football so the tip of the ice berg. I know lots of ex wives are branded as vindictive etc and on here it's never given much credence-it's always the husband making it up to cover up his own wrong doings-but in this case I've seen it first hand-some of the things she has said and done have been absolutely awful.

With re my own situation other than not being able to live with Dh half the time (which I don't like the thought of at all) it actually makes my life easier-because I won't be doing 3 hours round school trips in the mornings.

It won't stop even if he moves closer for half the week. If she's determined to ruin their relationship she will regardless. You need a sit down with the boys and an age appropriate discussion. Unfortunately, this is his lot and firmly but kindly explaining to the boys that he is willing to sacrifice SOME of his time with them so they can do the things they want to will stand him in much better stead with them. Unfortunately, she will continue to poison them. This is how it is and she will up her game if he gives in. It will not make a blind bit of difference you doing this.

Oh and why are you doing the 3 hour round school runs? Your DH should be doing them.

I'm with everyone saying do not in any circumstances do this as you will have set a precedence. If you have the flat up there, what's to stop her saying your DH can't bring the boys to your main home in the holidays?

Go back to court and get an EOW order, Friday - Monday. They will either not play footie for that weekend or play for both teams (fwiw my nephews played for two teams and it only strengthened their game). You & your DD don't lose out and your DH is supported.

But don't, no matter what, go for the two houses route. Good luck.

I hope this isn't too dismal, but I think you need to be prepared for the worst outcome so you can make choices that don't ruin you, your savings etc. I've seen this play out before, not the exact circumstances but similar alienation - refusing court ordered contact, refusal on compromise, not allowing phone calls. Money was thrown at the issue both inside and out of court (moving home, doing long trips, going into and out of court) and eventually once the DC became 12 the mother got them legal representation to basically say they didn't want to stay with the father. And that was that. Since then they have occasional video calls but not much else. I would be really wary of the second home option and firing through savings etc, if she wants him out of their lives and she's the resident parent she can make that happen so easily in the next 2-3 years no matter what you do beforehand.

I'd go back to court and explain that these plans are no longer feasible, since their move. I'd apply for every other weekend.

Neither, actually. DSC should have stayed enrolled in the local schools and XW should be doing the school run. Really puzzling this didn't happen, especially given courts were already involved.

Bloody hell. I would draw a line under going along with any of this and allowing it to affect your life to the extent it is.

I would not be doing the drive there and back in your shoes, at all. I would not be going along with any plan that meant cutting out all nice things from your life, especially with your own kids to consider.

Sad as it is, I would accept that their mum has obstructed you having the level of contact with them you're currently bending over backwards to make work, and aim for holidays with them or similar. It's not your fault, it's just how it turns out. If they want to do the football on your weekends, you tell them it isn't possible to drive that distance so if that's what they want you'll miss them but won't stand in their way.

Either that, or plumb your resources into going to court, but this might alienate them further.

But what I wouldn't do is continue flogging this dead horse. I would disengage and let your DH crack on, or go your separate ways, if things aren't going to change drastically. At the moment it sounds like you are letting the stress and logistics of that ruin your life, just so you can see more of your DH's children.

Op at one point I was driving 500 miles a week to keep to an old court order... Went back to court.. Exh was told (different judge) to stop making plans for our ds's in my time.. He farmed them pot to tea /parties /clubs iny so called 50/50 time..

Footy coach was happy they went eow.. Exh dramatically pulled out trophies ds's had won.. Judge said a relationship with me and his half siblings was more valuable.. Get back to court op. I was also told that blocks of time are more appropriate for pre teen dc... Stand your ground op. Don't even consider another property.. That isn't going to give them more stability. Just less travel time which batshit ex is demanding.

I applaud you and your DH for thinking what is best for your DSS I.E. less travelling time and more quality time with their Dad and getting to know their local friends etc.

I would think of the second property as an investment and although living apart isn't ideal for you as a couple, I think it is much better than your DH spending less & less time with his sons due to distance/ their other commitments.

You're in a tough spot and it's sad their mum isn't making the relationship easier, but I think this plan makes the most of the hand you've been dealt.

In your shoes I would try the two home approach, if you are not having to do school runs then you may find that you want to go over at the weekends, try to make the best of it. New town to have date nights with DH, your DSS’s may become closer to you both if you can hang out in their town more.

Aim high with your FT role, you can focus on career progression, towards a comfortable retirement.

in a short time they will either excel at football then the two homes will be even more needed or they will wane and it becomes a mute point. You are showing commitment to them

You said in your op that your dd has mental health issues and is struggling with the idea of you not been around as much, yet you go on to miniseries this in a later post. This is what a lot of women do, especially stepmothers. Your children matter just as much and there is no way in hell I would put anythingabove their well being. I think a sit down is needed with your DH. You have sacrificed enough. He cannot continue to give in to his ex wife when it is affecting you and your kids so much. Show him this thread, it seems to me that you are so eager to make his life easier (including doing the school drop offs) you have forgotten about you and your dd's.

Minimise not miniseries!

100% take it back to Court. As there is a CAO in place currently and there have been many breaches he could complete a C79 to get the Order enforced or varied

Unfortunately, parental alienation is a real issue and far more common than mn people realise.

If she is determined enough, your DH will be cut out of his children's lives with no real prospect of his ex being pulled up by court.
Unlike MN, mothers can ignore court orders, and unless there are other issues, SS involvement, etc, there will not be any comeback.
I always smile when I see 'go to/ back to court' being touted as the answer on here.

I'd get a solicitor and get this back to court. The situation isn't tenable as it is. EOW, half the school holidays and alternate Christmases would be much more sensible, and the football doesn't happen while their with you..or they continue with the 2 clubs. This will only get worse as they get older, at 9 and 10 they do as they are told, and 12 and 13 she'll saying they don't want to come and they can decide for themselves, so I'd get this sorted and established now.

I'm not minimising anything with my own children. But until now I'd worked full time. Ive effectively had 10 months off from that and worked PT. But I was never intended to be forever and cost of living crisis alone would probably have forced me back to FT work at some point. She has a Dad and he can and should step up, and its not a permanent issue-in September she will be back in full time school and home at around the same time as me once your figure the bus journey in. Plus the new job does offer a bit of flex after the probation period so in 6 months or so I can do shorter days to be around for her after school etc as needed . Of course she is a primary Concern but the issues around her are short term and work around-able

I do the school runs because that's what was best for our family income.DH earns about 3 times what I can as a social worker. But he can't earn that if he is not getting to work (another hour further south than us, so would be a four hour school run/work trip for him). If he loses his job or can't do it then we really are snookered. So I do the school runs because that's the only workable solution for our finances/work situations as they stand. It's not ideal but it is what had been necessary.
We are a family, Step children or not and so we see finances and everything else as being joint.

I absolutely get that she will probably continue to alienate the kids further. And also that on a practical level
It would be better to say we'll reduce the time we have the to just weekends and we won't be bringing them to football-but surely that would be basically be giving up on any sort of meaningful relationship with them and I think we owe it to them not to do that.

The court order was odd. Dh was in court for three days. One of those was disproving the false allegations. One was spent going through the inaccuracies on both sides of the cafcass report-it has reccommended a quantum and quouta of time that was as we currently had-but had recorded that wrongly, amongst other issues, and anyone who has been in family court may know how slow they are are to unpick reports and understand the situation. The final day was spent working out what was what but tbh by then the judge seemed impatient for it to be over and some very surprising things were included and lots of things we could have done with excluded. It was left quite ambivalent in some areas and the ex wife has certainly taken advantage of this.

I think it inevitable it will end up back in court either way as the ex has from the beginning refused to mediate-and so that's where we will end up-more expense and stress.

To be clear we have EOW Friday to Monday, then one week one night in the week and the next two nights. Half the holidays and alternate christmases.

I know people will say that's alot but it's actually not when as a parent you have had 50/50 and been fully involved in your kids lives. It doesn't seem fair that one person can just decide to move away (not even for economic or work reasons) and then the other parent suddenly loses the time with their children. And DH very much wants to continue to be a dad to his kids.