Alienated step children-dilemma

[lastminutewednesday]

We are in a really tricky situation-sorry this long but just wanted to get some perspective if possible from people who aren't in it themselves and who therefore might be able to see the wood for the trees.

A year ago my now Dh's ex wife decided she was moving 52 miles away to move in with her new boyfriend and she was taking his boys (my DSS's 9 and 10 with her).
DH had at that point had them 50/50 since his divorce 2 years prior.
DH attempted to get a prohibited steps order to prevent this. His ex wife made false allegations of drug abuse, domestic violence, stalking and financial control. These were disproven in court but as the ex wife had already purchased her house in the new town and because historically she had worked part time (though is now full time) whereas DH had worked longer hours during their marriage, the court allowed the boys to be moved but awarded us 40% time with them. There was also an extremely flawed cafcass report and a lot of the time in court was spent, from both sides, trying to iron out the issues with it.

The court order meant that we have to take the boys to school on our mornings with them ( a 3 hour round trip) and pick them up half way back on our nights with them.
This is a huge amount of time for us and cost in travel.
The court order also stated that they must continue to play for the football team where we live. The ex wife wanted to enrol them in the team local to them in which her new boyfriend is active. The court said they must continue to play for the side they always had and she must endeavour to bring them on her weekends to play there for a year and then they can choose. She has never done this, and instead enrolled them in the team near her-so they played every other weekend for each side. The football was important to dh-it was 'their thing' and it also meant they would maintain friendships and have some link to where we live and where they grew up still.

During the year that this arrangement has been in place the ex wife has
worked hard to alienate the children from us. Withholding contact for silly reasons,
refusing to Compromise on dates where family events fell on 'her' weekends, refusing to allow them to come to our planned wedding with a years notice, then going mad because they didn't come to our eventual tiny wedding (which was just Dh and I because by that point the stress was too much to do anything else), bad mouthing Dh and I, refusing phone calls and taking DSS1's phone from
Him so we can't call
Him (we go weeks at times without hearing from them), etc etc

Unfortunately the boys have succumbed a bit to this (they don't know any better, and at times they seem quite scared of her). It comes out in the way they speak to DH and the way they behave.

She emailed us last week to say the boys have chosen to stop playing football local to us and want to play for the team near her, so we will need to bring them on both Saturday and Sunday of our weekends. And we will
Need to change our routine of days in the week as training falls on one of them.
Dh and I have already altered our work schedules hugely
To accommodate the current routine. We spend 14 hours in the car a week travelling between places. It costs us about £400 in petrol. This will only increase if we have to take them on weekends too, plus we will have no family time to speak of at all (I have two older DD's that love their step brothers).

The ex wife has said the boys are 'desperate'to play for the team up there and it will ruin their football 'careers' if we don't facilitate this. She has passed that hyperbole onto the boys themselves and so now we are in a no win situation-if we agree to it it will have an awful effect on our family life and finances. If we don't she will
Use to it further turn the boys against their Dad and to a lesser extent me.

We have begun to feel the only solution is for DH to rent a flat near her, live there with the boys on our time with them, and spend the rest of the time home with me. This will be expensive but we will
Save so much on petrol etc and I can go back to work Full time as I won't have to do the long school runs, so will
Be earning more towards it. It's just about doable if we cut anything nice in life out and work like the clappers. It will obliterate our savings.
Dh would also ask for more nights with the boys and Could be involved more with the life they have in the new town-as is we pick them them up and drop them off but it's too far for their friends to come and see them on our weekends etc-and without the link to local football they won't really have friends near us anymore (which is why we wanted it in the first place).

But: This means that we won't be together half the time. We will never get any family time with my girls (after two more years they will be off to uni so I can move to the new town too, but we can't go now as they are doing a levels where we now live and their own dad is here). We will be getting absolutely rinsed on running two houses. DD2 has some mental health issues and it's going to be harder to manage those if I go back to work full time, though her Dad might be able to help. She feels a bit upset that I won't be around over the summer as much as would be at work. (I went self employed a year ago-gig economy stuff that meant i could
Be where was needed for all the kids).

The ex wife will oppose it if we choose to do the two houses and will inevitably make life as hard as possible.

But We either do this, or we lose the boys one way or another.

We just can't decide what to do, and we need to and Quickly as I've been offered a new job that offers a bit of flex which will help-and if we are going to do anything it needs to be asap before school etc starts next year .

Dh and I have both been in bits all weekend.

Had anyone any other suggestions of what we can do or how this might work?
It's so bloody stressful .

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. We are no closer to consensus but the solicitor has talked us through some options which we will discuss in an age appropriate way with the boys when we see them and then we will be led by them on which of those they prefer.

God this is horrible. I really feel for you OP.

The ex is clearly trying to run your lives and ruin your relationship in the process.

I'd go back to court and apply for contact every other weekend instead. What you're doing now isn't sustainable long term.

Wow she’s done a number hasn’t she. Really feel for you OP. Hope you can find a workable solution.

In my experience you can't win with women like this that use their kids as weapons. She'll always use them as a bargaining tool.

You'd be wiser to spend your money going to court to get contact arrangements altered.

I wouldn't go back to court. It will just cause more hostility and that will impact the boys - I can't see much of a solution and a judge isn't going to award residency to your husband unless the boys are asking for this.

Courts rarely prevent one person moving especially if the distance isn't that far so I would suggest you focus on quality time EOW and holidays to rebuild the relationship.

The boys may be very keen on football, I've had sons like that so where possible can your DH go to watch their games.

When courts gets involved I rarely think the outcome is ideal for anyone so I would really encourage your DH find a workable solution with the Ex.

Children will remember the hostility between their parents and as long as your H sees his boys regularly their relationship won't be impacted.

I just feel really sorry for your children, who seem to have been relegated to third best behind your husband and his children. I think you're insane to have tied your children to this utter shitfest of a situation.

Do show him this thread OP, if anything just to show him that people understand what a shit situation he has been put in. He needs to have a long hard think about things going forward because like I said, he can do this but it won't be the end. Also he shouldn't be afraid of discussing things with his boys! Sit down all together, with your girls too, and have an age appropriate thrashing it out. They might just appreciate someone giving them some agency over their lives because it doesn't sound like their mother does.

@CalistoNoSolo in what way? Whatever happens I will be staying in our house with my girls. Dh would come home to us when he doesn't have the boys. The only way it impacts them is that they won't get to see their little step brothers as much which they are sad about.

They aren't second best at all clearly. Otherwise I'd farm them off to their own Dad, move with Dh and just see them on weekends (as lots of people on the thread seem think is acceptable).

I think anything we do now will antagonise the ex wife. Court, refusing to take them to football on the weekend, moving near her-there is nothing she will accept. Tbh she would have preferred it if Dh had just given up a long time ago and I strongly think that's the only outcome she would be happy with. But neither Dh or I think that would be best for the Boys, and yep, Dh would also suffer if that was the end result because he very much loves his kids.

Op

I didn’t mean to sound harsh but I think you’ve missed the point. You’ve got your blinkers on and don’t understand you are involved in a war that will not end until these boys are 16.

you can choose to retreat for your own sake and that of everyone else or you can chase her down so that your husband can feel satisfied he is part of their lives

at massive cost to all!

Also so the boys can have their Dad in their lives. As is surely best for them, given that he's been nothing but a good parent to them?
So many dads just piss off and leave their kids. Or give up I suppose. And they are rightly castigated for it. Can't do right for doing wrong I suppose.

I'm astonished you can't or won't see how this ongoing situation is damaging for your children. It's your daughter's gcse year but you're more interested in that ridiculous round trip so your husband can see his children. You downgrade your wedding to tiny because its way too stressful to try to involve your husbands children, no mention of how it impacted your children. There's more and more, and each time you post it's more stark how little consideration you give to your own children. As I say, I feel very sorry for them, I hope their father puts them first.

@CalistoNoSolo
Lots of assumptions there.
My girls at 16 and 17 walk and drive to school respectively. Or do you suggest I need to walk them to school as I did when they were 6 and 7? They are capable of getting themselves ready and getting themselves to school as they have been since they were 10.
They attended our wedding and the older one was a witness. They then went home and we went for lunch. So a tiny wedding. We had a larger family party later. I know they aren't 'damaged' because I know them. And you do not.

I’m wondering if you have any indication what they boys would want? Do they talk about how often they want to see their dad and how they want it to be?
it sounds like a massive sacrifice for you to be doing all that driving, especially when you have your job and your own kids to focus on as well.
it’s really sad that the ex is doing it, sounds like such a shitty situation. Are there grandparents and other people that can help with facilitating more contact, driving, mediation?
it’s really difficult as when they boys grow older I can imagine that they won’t want to miss out on friends bday parties etc so indeed they will not want to come to yours as much. But does it mean that you have to move or run two households, I’m not sure.

I don't understand why all of this isnl coming from 'the ex' and not the boys themselves

They have said they are happy with the amount they see us. And indicated during their cafcass interviews that that was what they wanted. Though since then a year has passed, the travel is hard in the winter especially and their mum has been at them a bit. Now they are adamant about this football thing.
I think they just want to see both their parents without feeling they are having to choose tbh. We don't put them in that position-they are too little-sadly
I don't think the same is true of their other house.
The littler one in particular is vocal about missing us, his step sisters and probably mostly tbh our Dogs :). I don't get the impression he wants to see us any less certainly.
But these are the conversations we will be having with them over the next few weeks.

@OfficerPastiche quite. We have asked her repeatedly to discuss this stuff with us direct rather than use the boys to tell us.
We have literally heard her in the background when they do phone us saying 'tell dad this, tell dad that'. The messages they send us don't sound as if they are worded by a 10 year old. It's not good.

Well tbh if they want to keep going, then they just need to let go of the idea of doing football there during that time as it's too far to travel. It's not unreasonable to tell them that.

OP, I commend you and your husband for making such efforts for all of your children. My father dropped us like a brick when he remarried and this site is littered with dad's who do the same. It's lovely (but sad) to hear of a father who is doing the exact opposite. I wish you and your DH the best of luck, regardless of what you decide to do.🍀

Go back to court. Have them every other weekend at yours and do not take them to football. Drop the midweek stays and instead your DH could take them out for tea every Wednesday. You’ve got half the holidays also which is good

if she really wants them to do football local to her maybe they could do every weekend with her and relocate to a school near you, staying with you Monday to Friday

Mhhhh. Sorry, but if OP earned THREE timeshare her new DH's salary OP wouldn't be bending backwards as she is now to the extent of minimising her child's needs.

Yes, OP is being defensive but the 3 times salary seems to point as to why that is.

On a more serious note, let him rent a flat- it is HIS money after all and I support him (anyone) spending his money in the hope of maintaining a relationship with his kids. This shouldn't even be a debate. If you feel you need a FT job to facilitate this, it is really YOUR choice.

THREE times--sorry for autocorrection.

I don't understand your post snowy. I think you're attempting to imply that I'm with dh for the salary he earns and that's more important than my children in some way?

I'm a social worker in adults mental health by trade. It's not that hard if you work in business to earn three times what I do-but yes dh does earn well enough. We also have 4 kids between us. We live in an expensive bit of the country in a house big enough to house all our children. we are stuck here as dh needs to go to work in the nearby city, the girls grew up here and need to be near their own dad who also has to be here for work. We therefore have a big mortgage, commuting costs, etc etc. On top of which Dh pays the maintenance that he rightly should-but which is alot. Plus huge petrol costs associated with the boys. So whilst on paper we have a good income, the reality of that is slightly less rosy. As I said, in order to operate two houses it will need my salary, as opposed to the half that I earn currently with my own little part time business. Obviously we are lucky that we even have that option, but it will put us up against it a bit. Neither Dh or I see it as 'his' money or 'my' money. We are married so our finances are joint. It all goes in one pot and comes out of the same. I get that doesn't work for everyone but it works for us.

I'm still unsure how my children 'suffer'. On the 5 mornings a fortnight I do the long school run, two of them they are with their own dad. The other three they have 40 minutes between me leaving and leaving themselves to go to school. At 16 and nearly 18 they are quite able to manage that. I'd be worried if they weren't.

If anything the girls are far better off than they were when I was a single mum. But then I'm sure if I was a single mum I'd be castigated for working then as I did because I had to support us and not being able to be around every waking second. They adore DH, and they genuinely love their little brothers. Their lives are infinitely better in lots of ways than they were before-long school runs not withstanding.

The only issue around DD2 is that during her long summer she might be a bit lonely. She has some issues with her friends making bad choices and now chooses (which I'm happy about) not to see them as much. Had I not had to go back to work FT I would have been around a bit more in the summer.As it is she will hang out with Dh and the boys when they are with us, go away on holiday with her dad, hopefully get a job. It will be less easy than it would have been, but I fail to see how her needs aren't being met to the level of my being 'neglectful'.

As I said-thanks to those that replied constructively. Still much to be decided-and none of the choices are without downsides. But we will talk to the boys ( and the girls though they have already been involved in discussion with us about it all) and try to work out what's best.

This is my take on it as well. You'll run yourself ragged and it won't make a bit of difference.

Can you point to where I said you should be walking them to school? Your posts are getting less coherent, but as usual you're minimising the effect this situation has had and is having on your own children. It's rather tragic that you refuse to see it, especially as you purport to be a social worker.