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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being selfish?

103 replies

andrew279144 · 05/06/2023 02:46

My partner had stage 4 cancer two years ago - liver and bowel - four months to live. I nursed her through all of it, and thanks to wonderful Southampton General, she is, after colono-rectal surgery and stoma, now free of it. But we had a great sex life up until her surgery. Now, of course that has ended. But I miss it. Am I being unreasonable in wanting some kind of sex life, I'm sure many will label me as just a typical man wanting sex. Tired of masturbation. What should I do??

OP posts:
Boomshock · 16/06/2023 20:00

Palmasailor · 15/06/2023 04:57

You’re not disgusting or even close to it.

You shouldn’t have to write off your sex life for the rest of your life because of someone else. You only live once.

To an extent / it’s your body your choice.

if it was the husband unable to perform they’d all be shouting “divorce him”

If you don’t want to write off your sex life you prob. Need an FB.

He has a choice to leave. She's not forcing him to stay.

He should do the right thing and leave rather than finding a FB. His partner doesn't deserve that.

TeenLifeMum · 16/06/2023 22:20

In sickness and in health! I love having sex with dh but if that ended because he had cancer I’d just be grateful he was still alive. How devastating for your poor wife after everything she’s been through this is your priority.

cheshirebloke · 16/06/2023 23:33

Yes, you are a typical man that wants sex. Most typical women want sex too though.

My dp has a stoma, done as an emergency procedure completely out of the blue, so neither of us had any time in advance to get used to the idea of it. And we hadn't been together lone before hand, so not majorly committed to one another.

It didn't take long at all for our sex life to get back to normal, it was mainly the physical healing (and covid lockdown) that caused the delay. Obviously dp was very self conscious about the stoma at first, she would cover it up with a support band. Gradually her body confidence came back in all aspects, not just in the bedroom.

I guess your dp's may well be different type/position of stoma, but we don't find my dp's gets in the way at all. Even so there are plenty of other positions where it's well out the way. Your dp clearly isn't completely put off of all physical intimacy, sounds like there's something in particular about penetrative sex that is putting her off it. Physically and psychologically the stoma in itself shouldn't cause a big step from digital penetration to PiV. Missionary is probably about the worst position to be starting off with in the circumstances though - perhaps a bit of spooning would be a better way to try and start.

Probably not what you want to hear but maybe your dp just isn't that bothered about sex, at least not the PiV aspect? You should be able to talk about this together, but it sounds like you haven't actually done so? Obviously don't try and start that conversation in the bedroom.

However, at no point would I have considered 'taking a surrogate partner'. Unless you mean with your dp's blessing, it's just a fancy way of saying cheating. Better to be honest and call time on the relationship than do that.

EthicalNonMahogany · 17/06/2023 08:13

@Boomshock fair play, I can see it might look like I am "endorsing" cheating. Rather, I think my varied experiences, having worked through some of the issues we all have around monogamy, jealous, honesty etc mean that I have a different and perhaps less fear-driven perspective than some people on here. So I try to offer that where I can, in the interests of adding to the discussion.

Living by morals and ethics is vital, but we shouldn't confuse all our ethics with purely the ethics around sexual behaviour. There are lots of ways for OP to be a good husband here, and it's possible to make a case that if he has a discreet affair he may be a better husband than if he does not. I would personally like to know what my husband is doing and thinking and keep close to his emotional state, for our continued connectedness, so for me/him, secret and compartmentalised affairs don't work. I also think it's important for us both to keep our promises and be honest. But if he has needs that I simply can't take on board, because my needs are so great, (e.g. if he needed emotional or other support or sexual support) and I just wasn't in the place to do the emotional work around it - well, would I rather he left me? Would I rather he was very unhappy? If it wasn't a sex thing, my husband getting a work coach or a good friend or a new hobby, and him using that very intentionally to help him handle my illness, would it bother me? And if I wasnt in an open marriage...Would I even need to know that he was doing that?

I suspect the moral "DO NOT LIE AND CHEAT" position that is the default on Mumsnrt is really about the gut fear we have of abandonment and losing our partners. It's not really an intellectually held stance on ethics.

I think OP should talk with his wife about opening things, or about finding ways to handle his sexual needs with her - as I said in my earlier post. The affair option is both risky in terms of hurting his wife more, and in terms of corroding their relationship. So it's not a good option. None of the options are great, and the affair one also leads to other shit down the line. So I don't think it's a good choice. But it is an understandable one and I'm not interested in blanket pronouncements and judgments.

Groutyonehereagain · 17/06/2023 08:57

TeenLifeMum · 16/06/2023 22:20

In sickness and in health! I love having sex with dh but if that ended because he had cancer I’d just be grateful he was still alive. How devastating for your poor wife after everything she’s been through this is your priority.

This ^

It’s shocking to read that some people would treat a sick partner so badly.

Boomshock · 17/06/2023 15:15

@EthicalNonMahogany
There are lots of ways for OP to be a good husband here, and it's possible to make a case that if he has a discreet affair he may be a better husband than if he does not.

But perhaps the partner doesn't want a husband who is not faithful, perhaps she would put up with other shit but not lack of faithfulness. That tends to be the dealbreaker for many. I wouldn't want a husband who could only be a good husband if he had a fuck buddy.

But if he has needs that I simply can't take on board, because my needs are so great, (e.g. if he needed emotional or other support or sexual support) and I just wasn't in the place to do the emotional work around it - well, would I rather he left me? Would I rather he was very unhappy?

I would rather he leave if it was me.

I suspect the moral "DO NOT LIE AND CHEAT" position that is the default on Mumsnrt is really about the gut fear we have of abandonment and losing our partners. It's not really an intellectually held stance on ethics.

I disagree.

No, people don't want to be abandoned, but they also don't want to be with cheats. Many have also seen the damage caused by cheating whether it's been done to them or someone else. I don't know if you read a thread on here a while back questioning whether cheating should be considered a crime, but it was very interesting. Obviously it would be impossible to enforce it so it couldn't be, but it's fascinating that people are allowed to lie and cheat for years or decades even and cause untold emotional damage and trauma and it's NOT a crime, because if the same damage and trauma was inflicted by other means it would be a crime. So intellectually if someone were to really think about it then the ethics of it are very much a prominent feature in why people are against it. I would also say that many who believe in ethical non monogamy would say the same, considering the name.

What you said kind of implies some kind of desperation like people want to hold onto their partners at all costs, no matter what, which isn't true for many at all.
It's a common assumption and it seems to be even more commonly assumed when the partner has been sick, like because they were sick they must desperately want to cling onto their partner and like their partner is doing them a favour if they can find a way to stay with them. It's gross.

I think OP should talk with his wife about opening things, or about finding ways to handle his sexual needs with her - as I said in my earlier post.

Absolutely. At least then his partner will get to make her own decisions, which is the only fair way.

The affair option is both risky in terms of hurting his wife more, and in terms of corroding their relationship. So it's not a good option. None of the options are great, and the affair one also leads to other shit down the line. So I don't think it's a good choice. But it is an understandable one and I'm not interested in blanket pronouncements and judgments.

Well you will have to understand, that with a username like yours you are going to get pushback, when you are saying look if you have to be unethical about it then fair enough!

Comfortablechairs · 17/06/2023 15:43

The OP is not married. He was married but his wife died of cancer. His current partner moved into his house during lockdown for companionship and hasn't left. He is doing the decent thing and caring for her. So many posters suggesting he finish with her and what? Throw her out? Life isn't black and white. It may well have fizzled out. They had only been together a year before cancer and he has cared for her from Stage 4 to remission. Hard on a man who has already cared for a wife who died of cancer.
Some of you have no idea and make up stories in your imaginations. If you look at the Macmillan cancer support forums, many single people fear coping with cancer on their own..

Boomshock · 17/06/2023 16:30

@Comfortablechairs
She thought she was dying and now she isn't.

Perhaps she thinks they are in love and wouldn't want a relationship where he was her 'carer' or only staying because he felt stuck.
Perhaps that's why she 'hasn't left'. She thinks they are happy and in love?

If she knew about his feelings then perhaps she would end the relationship herself.

annabanana88 · 18/06/2023 21:25

@andrew279144 speaking as someone with a stoma myself I'll say there's a good chance your wife may eventually get back to the point of wanting to be intimate again...she's been through a shitload and it's going to take time for her to get used to the new her, she'll likely be grieving her former self at the moment. Are you comfortable with the colostomy bag? My partner being comfortable with mine and my scars was a MASSIVE deal for me - luckily he couldn't care less about them, we joke about it alot and I get ripped by him and my kids for having a " shitbag " 😂. There's a company based in Glasgow called Vanilla Blush that sells ostomy garments ( they have an intimacy range too ), maybe suggest their site to your wife and she can have a wee look - their underwear has an interior pocket for the bag and holds everything in nicely. Please forget about finding a surrogate partner - you should either be all in or all out.

andrew279144 · 06/07/2023 03:42

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CoreyTaylorsSoggyTshirt · 06/07/2023 09:19

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I don't hate men. I hate cheaters. Especially ones who want to cheat on their partner because they had the audacity to have cancer and not feel up to sex.

Even worse when they start throwing finances into it as if they deserve sex from someone because they helped out with money.

It's sad that it's not even an unusual scenario, there are leaflets/web pages dedicated to preparing yourself that your man will cheat when you get diagnosed with cancer.

Call me a piece of shit all you like, I'm not the one thinking about how i can get a shag when faced with poorly, traumatised partner.

andrew279144 · 07/07/2023 01:40

OMG what a manhater you are. You have NO IDEA what I have been through these past two years. Yes, my partner (not wife!) has had cancer, and I have stuck with her 100% through that (and seen the worst that cancer can do, believe me), not to mention my first wife, who had breast cancer (double mastectomy) that came through to the surface, and invaded her liver. How dare you preach to me! You know nothing. You are ignorant, stupid, and a first class manhater! "Audacity to have cancer"? You are disgusting. I wish you well, because you really need help.

OP posts:
andrew279144 · 07/07/2023 01:50

Good that there are a few intelligent people on here that understand where I am coming from. I would never leave my partner - I do love her to bits - but I miss intimacy, and was just saying that. Unfortunately a few of the more, shall we say, unswitched, un-WOKE, members on here decided to flame me and called me 'disgusting' etc etc. Am I bovvered?? Nooooo xxx

OP posts:
andrew279144 · 07/07/2023 01:53

Thank you Annabanana88 for your common sense response. We will check out Vanilla Blush. God bless you!

OP posts:
Boomshock · 07/07/2023 03:07

@andrew279144
Do you not think your partner should get a say in it though?
Does she not deserve to make her own choices about whether she wants to stay in a relationship where you are getting sex elsewhere?

CoreyTaylorsSoggyTshirt · 07/07/2023 08:00

andrew279144 · 07/07/2023 01:40

OMG what a manhater you are. You have NO IDEA what I have been through these past two years. Yes, my partner (not wife!) has had cancer, and I have stuck with her 100% through that (and seen the worst that cancer can do, believe me), not to mention my first wife, who had breast cancer (double mastectomy) that came through to the surface, and invaded her liver. How dare you preach to me! You know nothing. You are ignorant, stupid, and a first class manhater! "Audacity to have cancer"? You are disgusting. I wish you well, because you really need help.

Why you've chosen to restart this thread after weeks just to call me a man-hater, I have no idea.

It sounds like you've been through a lot. Know who else has been through a lot - your partner, you know, the one who you want to cheat on because she isn't putting out.

I don't hate men, I've raised two very lovely men.

If you think man hating is someone saying you're a twat for wanting to cheat on your sick, traumatised partner then I can assure you that it isn't me that is stupid and ignorant.

You seem to think that because you've been through a lot we should all be sympathetic and 'kind' and say what you want to hear, however most of us have also been through a lot of shit too, the difference between you and most of us is that our first priority wouldn't be where we can get a shag from.

Next time you're in self pitying mode, try putting yourself in your partners shoes, and think about her, how she feels, what she has been through, and then imagine how she would feel being cheated on after all that, rather then coming onto the Internet at stupid o'clock in the morning to call someone names for suggesting your selfish for wanting to cheat.

Any sympathy you're trying to get from me by telling me all the details of your life is solely reserved for your poor partner.

Flopsythebunny · 07/07/2023 12:17

andrew279144 · 07/07/2023 01:50

Good that there are a few intelligent people on here that understand where I am coming from. I would never leave my partner - I do love her to bits - but I miss intimacy, and was just saying that. Unfortunately a few of the more, shall we say, unswitched, un-WOKE, members on here decided to flame me and called me 'disgusting' etc etc. Am I bovvered?? Nooooo xxx

From what you said at the start you get plenty of intimacy. The only thing she can't do is have your penis inside her.
Yes, you are selfish. You don't love her, you enjoy playing the poor man who's wife died from cancer then his partner got cancer. I bet you love people feeling sorry for you

andrew279144 · 12/07/2023 03:20

Really?? Try being there, mate! You seem to know so much more than I do!

OP posts:
andrew279144 · 12/07/2023 03:24

Have had two partners with stoma bags - it's crap (pardon the expession!) I know more about it than any of you ever will.... So just shut up trying to be experts and judging me! You know absolutely nothing nothing about the subject.

OP posts:
annabanana88 · 21/07/2023 12:06

@andrew279144 I can remain non biased regarding your post as I have suffered similar to your partner ( thankfully not cancer related ). It's highly unlikely that anyone will go through such a major operation and come out the other end the same person whether that be physically, mentally or emotionally - it's a HUGE change. The guy I was seeing prior to my operation ran for the hills whilst I was still in hospital recovering from the op - I genuinely am glad that he did as he wasnt the person for me obviously. You have needs that aren't being fulfilled at the moment but that doesn't make it ok to look elsewhere. How do you think your partner would react if you put this to her...genuine question by the way? I know that I couldn't accept this but everyone's tolerances are different to things.

Naunet · 21/07/2023 13:59

Have got every sex toy under the sun, and they do help, but there is no substitute for normal penetrative sex

Well this attitude explains why so many men seem to think lesbians can’t possibly be happy with their sex lives, and just haven’t met the right man yet.

Naunet · 21/07/2023 14:06

Freefall212 · 15/06/2023 05:35

I don’t know who told you to come here… that advice is like telling a woman to go to an MRA forum for advice!

This board is predominantly anti-man and see men as really existing only to meet the needs and wants of woman. There is a minority that isn’t so sexist but you will see that pretty much every thread is name calling men, blaming men, etc it is a place for women to vent their hate and disgust of men who most see as having little value beyond what they can buy or give women.

There is a lot of hate on these boards directed at men. Whoever sent you here must not really like you as they would have known you would be attacked.

What an absolute load of tiresome horseshit.

TheCatterall · 21/07/2023 16:21

@andrew279144 mumsnet can be a viscous place at the best of times but you have unfortunately brought up a combo of triggers for many.

Supporting your partners with cancer is a harsh thing to go through. And the aftermath is never pretty.

I think an issue is you have jumped from trying everything in the bedroom to make things better - to ‘finding someone else to have penetrative sex with’. I can guarantee this will not make your partner feel more loved and desirable.

have you both had separate or couples counselling/ therapy to move on and help build and strengthen your relationship?

id say that’s your starting point…

Dery · 21/07/2023 16:44

@TheCatterall’s post is very wise, @andrew279144, as was @Vretz’s upthread. Focussing on rebuilding your partner’s confidence is the best way to go, I think, if you want your relationship to flourish.

IRonButterfly · 21/07/2023 18:54

Dery · 21/07/2023 16:44

@TheCatterall’s post is very wise, @andrew279144, as was @Vretz’s upthread. Focussing on rebuilding your partner’s confidence is the best way to go, I think, if you want your relationship to flourish.

@Vretz post was pandering horseshit.