DW cheated for 9 years. How do I get over it and rebuild?

[JojoB1980]

The last time I posted on MN was in 2017 and I got a really bad reception so please be kind. I've been with my DW 17 years and married for 12 years and have 2 children. Our sex life was great for the first number of years but naturally reduced in frequency especially after marriage. Despite this I felt nothing was wrong as despite it becoming less frequent than I wanted the quality was always great - we always climaxed at the same time (i'd wait for her) and it was obviously very loving and authentic. By the time we had our first child nearly 9 years ago, intimacy had seriously reduced and my sexual advances were fairly consistently rejected. I assumed that despite loving each other wholeheartedly and still both being sexually attracted to each other - that DW simply had a much lower sex drive than me and wasn't at all interested in sex as much as I was. This continued until 2016 when I became more and more frustrated by not just the lack of sex but what I came to feel was a lack of general intimacy between us. I became despondent over time especially when mutual female friends would openly describe their very high sex drive. I felt like very sorry for myself because I still loved her so much but always had a very high sex drive which I assumed was simply incompatible with my DW.

At the end of 2016 I unexpectedly started a sudden infatuation with a beautiful woman who was 12 years younger than me and on our first meeting showed me affection and sexual interest. I immediately felt this sudden explosion of need and desire and realisation of what I'd been missing. We started a two week "affair" which consisted of a few kisses and chats but nothing physical and we both felt extremely anxious and uneasy about it and she ended it. I was heartbroken, not because of any love for her but for the rejection and feeling that I'd lost the one opportunity I'd found for meaningful intimacy. I felt trapped in my marriage to a woman and child I loved intensely but was unfulfilled and frustrated by sexually. I was totally lost and heartbroken and told my wife about it. We went to couples therapy for 3 months where the majority of the discussion seems to centre on DW perception that I didn't contribute equally to household work which turned her off sexually. DW said very little in those sessions. Our communication and appreciation for each other did improve and we resolved to continue our marriage. I subsequently went through what I've since been told was likely 3 years of depression. Our sex life and general intimacy didn't improve and I allowed myself to fixate on the woman that got away; paying for her to move to new zealand, finding her a job, paying her deposit and generally paying to make her dream of emigrating come true just to feel a small sense of validation and acceptance.

What I didn't know was that my wife had been reading my texts and emails for the last 9 months in the belief I was having an affair and never confronted me. Eventually I realised she knew and broke down and explained my heartache of unrequited infatuation. She forgave me instantly and I felt this overwhelming feeling of security and comfort that my DW was the perfect person for me because of the way she handled it. Still the intimacy didn't improve, we had sex less than once a month to the point i started googling definitions for sexless marriage and asking for advice on mumsnet (which was awful, I got crucified).

A few years later I discovered a bag full of dildos and sex toys, and her reaction was horror. I was personally relieved because I felt it meant she did have sexual needs and drive. A while later she called me anxiously to tell me a girlfriend of a man she'd been chatting to on twitter was convinced they were flirting inappropriately and that it was nothing but football banter. The gf called me and I straight out shut her down, absolutely certain that DW simply didn't have that desire or sexual need or drive and that even if she did she'd tell me. a month later I saw the mans name come up on DW phone and opened the chat to find several years thread of extremely graffic sexting. Dick pics and extremely explicit chat going back at least 2 years. I wanted to hold it in but was shocked and frozen and went white and confronted her about it. She claimed it was pure fantasy, like watching porn and was harmless. Again my main feeling was relief that I'd discovered a sexual drive that I could tap into. The one thing that stuck out from the texts was that she'd invited him to our flat for sex and he bottled it and didn't turn up. She claimed that was all heat of the moment fantasy and she would never have gone though with it. She could see how upset I was about the episode so only 2 weeks later I was devastated to find another thread of sexting on her phone with a person she'd previously slept with before our relationship. She was reliving the sordid nature of the sex etc and it totally devastated me. That was in 2020.

Over the following 3 years we started to discuss non monogamy and joined an ENM app. Our sex life immediately went through the roof. We went from having great sex once a month to having extremely gratifying much more adventurous sex about 3 times a day for 3 or 4 months. She was sexting guys on the app and making videos (solo and with me) but she showed it to me whenever I asked and I genuinely wasn't in any way upset or hurt by them because it wasn't in secret and was done in my full knowledge and approval. Suddenly all the activity stopped dead and I asked DW directly to promise me that she hadn't migrated to another channel or platform, I also asked her to tell me if she'd ever slept with anyone else since we began our relationship and she convincingly promise me she hadn't.

Our sex life remained much better for the last 2 years although it did reduce again in frequency but i felt we were much more in tune with each other. However there was this unresolved insecurity that I harboured. She had changed the password on her phone, so i was frequently checking her laptop for evidence. I found nothing and over time began to trust again.

Then suddenly 8 weeks ago when she'd gone away to see her friend abroad, I searched her laptop and discovered an enormous cache of saved texts, photos and videos starting all the way back in 2014 in her dropbox. She obviously exported her whatsapps and hidden them. They detailed in extreme explicit detail her physical infidelity with a man she met at a work xmas party in 2013, 2 years after our wedding, around the time we were trying to concieve our first child. They had sex 4 times, twice in our flat on our couch, and twice at his flat. the last time was 2 weeks after we learned of our pregnancy. It's clear from the texts that she wanted to continue the affair and he tended to go quiet and then come back. There were texts 2 weeks after she gave birth that suggested she wanted to see him but couldn't promise sex as she had endured a very tough childbirth and just wanted to kiss him. There is evidence of her booking a hotel for them 6 months after giving birth but he bottled it and it didn't happen. The texts with this man continued sporadically in 2017, 2019, 2020, 2021 (after the whole sexting was discovered). These sexts are clearly more about reminiscing about the affair for masturbation but they both state a desire to meet up again although it doesn't appear to have ever happened.

There are other chats with other men just after that physical affair fizzled out with a man she slept with an had anal sex and used all the sex toys I didn't know existed at that time in a hotel in 2015 (our child was 6 months old). There are other texts where it's clearly just fantasy and she's using it as an outlet for her secret sexual desires.

Obviously I totally blew up and we've been in trauma and trying to fix ourselves and our relationship since. Lots of therapy. lots of talking and walking and sex. she's completely come clean and takes full responsibility for her actions. She has been patient and resilient to my volatile behaviour since, and is genuinely trying to save our marriage. She recognises that she "compartmentalised" me for years as a DH and kept her sexual activity and urges secret and separate. She didn't feel it would impact on me because she loved me and thought so long as I didn't know it wouldn't affect us. She's now realised that by doing so she alienated me for years and denied me the intimacy I had been craving. She lied and gaslit me and betrayed me horribly.

I want so much to stay with her. I love her immensely. I want her, I'm deeply sexually attracted to her. We have a whole life together including 2 children and I want to get over it and enjoy what has since become a very intimate and loving new relationship. However I still have massive bouts of doubt and anxiety. The fact that she can't explain why this happened (she's going to therapy to try to understand herself better); mean that I find it impossible to move on and heal. I feel i don't know her, i don't know myself, i don't trust any of our memories for the last 9 years including the birth of our children. I'm immediately triggered by any mention of the year that either of our children were born.

Please advise.... How do I move on. Please be kind,

I think you've figured this out yourself.

Personally I think your wife either can't do/doesn't want to do monogamy (and it might be the same with any partner).

Or, she's "just not that into you" and never really has been - hence the serial cheating - but she knows you're into her, will stay with her, are committed to her etc so you're fall back guy, ol' reliable etc.
She seems to do the red pill, hypergamy, female cheating thing (a theory which does have some grounding) of staying with the "beta" man who'll commit to her and support her, while sneakily seeking out and shagging perceived "alpha" men (including risking impregnation by them while TTC with Mr reliable/Mr commitment).

If it's the former; you can end the marriage, or go for an ethical polygamous open marriage.

I think you suspect (correctly) that she'll probably always be a risk for non ethical non open polygamy however.

If it's the latter, you'd be best ending the marriage.

You don't have to do it immediately if your kids household is such a concern for you; it could be when they're fledging the nest. You could have an open marriage, or just cohabit and have other relationships in the meantime. She'll be assured of getting sex non stop; you won't. You'll be more likely to get a new partner - proper partner though.

You can find a woman who's faithful and who'd like a regular sex life without having to be polygamous etc.
You've got a case of "one-itis" but the fact is that the world is full of women as nice looking, attractive, east to get on with etc as your wife .... But without the constant cheating.

You seem to be suffering from one-itis, low self esteem and scarcity mentality.

Even when you had an (emotional) affair, you still felt you had to buy your affair partner. I can't believe she took all that money off a married man with kids to support; she just he a right bitch too.

*must be

Stop down-playing his affair. The only reason it wasn't physical was because the OW ended it. In his own words he'd "lost the one opportunity (he'd) found for meaningful intimacy". He wanted it to be a physical affair. Then the second time around he tried to buy her affections with family money. A lot of it. He is not a victim here. They're both as bad as each other.

Your poor children. That this is the example you're giving them of how to conduct a 'loving' relationship. Revolting.

It also struck me that in OP's first post he described his OW as "beautiful". I suspect there's still some longing for her.

OP, if the OW turned up on your doorstep today, would you be tempted?

And I'm astounded that in 8 weeks you've managed to organise 3 separate counsellors and a DNA test. Plus lots of heart to heart talks with DW.

I wonder how much attention the DC feel they are getting?

You keep saying you have great relationship except of infidelity and lack of intimacy and I understand that everyone's standards are different but for me it wouldn't be so much about sleeping with other people. It's about deception, broken promises and broken trust which can never be fully repaired after years of cheating. What is the point of the relationship if there is no trust, no reliability?
You might be in love with each other and be "soul mates" but you actually haven't got a solid, respectful love for each other. You didn't value the integrity of your relationship over having flings with other people. Once you cross that line the integrity is gone, the relationship is stained.
The only reason you yourself didn't cheat was because you didn't have an opportunity but you engaged in serious emotional infidelity and would have gone further given a chance.

Your wife's attitude seems extremely problematic and shows some deep issues. It's one thing to cheat in a heat of the moment or to get involved with someone else when relationship is unhappy. It's bad and inexcusable but at least then there is some reasoning behind it. Your wife's "reasons" for cheating sound insane, doing it around your children's births, not knowing why she does what she does - there is so much to unpack here and very little hope that she won't do something stupid again.

I'm sorry but personally I could not live in such a mess and it seems like you both have some serious issue with boundaries.

If you do commit to therapy it would have to be years, not months. And she'll probably need individual therapy too as her behaviour doesn't sound normal and she needs to get to the bottom of it.

OP, if the OW turned up on your doorstep today, would you be tempted?

He has invested a lot of time and money into this OW, so I imagine he would feel entitled to have her. While blaming his wife for rejecting him and having sex outside of the marriage first.

Their counsellors will make a fortune from this pair.

I'm always baffled that men come on MUMSnet.

Pretty sure they come here to troll and cause shit.

This honestly reads like he typed it with one hand and is excitedly waiting for the juicy replies. Lube at the ready

So you’re both miserable, you’ve both cheated, there’s no trust and no intimacy? Gently, is this really what you want to show your children a marriage should look like? Sometimes, love simply isn’t enough. You sound fundamentally incompatible, both of you sound very sad and broken and like you are desperately trying to get your needs met elsewhere. Wouldn’t an amicable separation and perhaps in time a lasting friendship be better for all?

Blimey. Well it’s only recent. I think you need couples therapy and individual therapy.

It seems unlikely you two can make it work as a closed relationship. Obviously sex is important, but the pair of you seem obsessed.

So I think you need to work through whether it’s viable, whether you’d consider an open relationship or whether you should call it a day.

Do you also need to organise DNA tests to check the kids are yours? It might not change how you feel about them and you might not want to, but if you are having a reassessment and it’s in the back of your mind, now might be the time to do it.

Good luck anyway

The last time I posted on MN was in 2017

That isn't true. You were here in 2022 asking for people to DM you about their sexting experiences.

It’s not PC to say it on here, but it’s entirely understandable even if it’s not justifiable that constant rejection could lead to a person becoming attracted to someone else.

Neither of them have behaved well, but whereas he cheated while he was being rejected by his partner, she was shagging anything that moved for nearly a decade.

TBH OP I would first and foremost insist on DNA testing to see if your children actually are yours.

The marriage clearly isn’t working for either of you. There’s a lot of hysterical bonding which goes on here every time you find out about another string of sexting. It’s not healthy for either of you.

As said above, you would be far better to just end it and focus on co parenting well.

Seriously leave her.

She will never change and this is going to destroy you.

@SwordToFlamethrower

And yet you were on here before you became a mum? It's the name of a website, not a rule to follow.

Men come on this site (which is promoted as being for parents but in reality is for everyone and anyone) for the same reason of advice, chat, information and I'm sure an occasional troll/banter.

Anyway, back to the OP, who I think lo es being cuckolded and gets pleasure from knowing his wife is getting it from everyone except him. This whole thread will be gratifying him.

We don't know all the reasons for why she "rejected" him. The only thing he said about that is -

"We went to couples therapy for 3 months where the majority of the discussion seems to centre on DW perception that I didn't contribute equally to household work which turned her off sexually."

That's 3 months of her explaining why she didn't feel close to him - which he had kind of dismisses here as "her perception". It's a fact that not feeling valued and respected in a relationship really does affect your feelings towards your partner, which then affects your ability to want to be intimate with them. A lot of affairs start because of this. It's human nature to want to feel loved and appreciated, so if you don't get that from your partner, you might look for it elsewhere. Which is actually what he did too.

She cheated because she didn't feel valued. He cheated because he didn't feel valued.

I said in the very beginning of the thread, OP is clearly trolling and I don't understand why ppl can't see that and are still entertaining their fantasy 🙄

As for men posting on Mumsnet, I surely don't agree with that either but other women might think that's ok.

This is fucked up on so many levels.

Just separate and be decent parents to your kids, and then you can both conduct sordid sexual affairs with whoever you choose. Sorted.

This reminds me of my parents.
Couldn't live with each other but couldn't live without each other. The dance went on until I was 16 until the final bell was called. Everyone was much happier for it after the initial period of grief.

As much as two people can be in love, sometimes they just aren't compatible and together create a toxic relationship. Love doesn't always conquer all, especially where children are involved.

My genuine opinion is there's far too much water under this bridge on both sides and you're just not compatible. Despite how much you love her, sometimes the best thing to do is to separate. You've been together a long time, what you have now is comfortable and familiar, but making you perpetually miserable. And sounds like you've both been miserable for years.

The whole point of a relationship is to bring happiness and enrich each others lives, once that's gone there's no point. Yes, separation will hurt like hell for a long time, but ultimately you would all be happier in the long term.

Indeed

... and also back in 2022 asking about sex clubs.

And yet you were on here before you became a mum? It's the name of a website, not a rule to follow.

Your deliberately misunderstanding PP. why do men deliberately choose to post on predominately female sites like MUMSnet when they can go to Reddit, twitter, AskMen or any other forum?