Should I just give up hope of ever finding someone?

[PetuniaPotter]

Name changed as this is sensitive and I'm embarrassed! I'm 37 (almost 38) and have been single for about six months now, following the end of an absolute shitshow of a relationship. I would absolutely love to meet someone and am so incredibly lonely, but I just don't seem to be able to muster up any enthusiasm whatsoever and I feel like I really need some help and guidance.

Basically, I feel like I have never, ever been treated well by men and I don't understand it. I can't work out whether it's me or whether most men are just awful and other women just tolerate it? It always seems to be the same old pattern of the man being all excited at first and then things going to shit, and it always feels like it's because he can't control me and everything about the relationship. It feels like there are always these terrible power struggles, and trying to assert myself (as in literally be treated like a human being with feelings and needs) results in being degraded and ultimately disregarded, and each and every time I'm left completely drained of energy and hope.

The last relationship was wonderful for the first few months and then I noticed the pattern creeping in again...he seemed to desperately need to control everything. Something as simple as me trying to make plans with him would anger him. He seemed to want me to just sit around and wait for him to invite me to do stuff. I won't go into too much details about this one relationship as I feel it's not the point, but I feel like this was in a way one time too many, and for the first time ever, I actually feel like I should just give up on dating and hoping to find someone.

Looking back (and with the help of a therapist), many of my relationships were downright abusive, and I tolerated it because I was feeling desperate for a husband and kids. I can now see that this clouded my judgement and caused me to stay in bad situations - because each time I felt like I'd be wasting the time already invested and that this might be the best it would get. I have now decided to give up on the dream of having kids - I think I've left it too late, I think I'd struggle with a lot of the aspects of being a mum, and for the first time in my life, I have financial security through my job, and I don't think I'd feel safe ever relying on a man again. I feel a sense of relief at having made this decision, as it takes away the immediate urge of absolutely needing to find a partner asap, with my age being what it is, but I'm still aware that dating is only going to get harder and harder from here (I've recently started to visibly age recently after looking very young for years, which is really getting me down) so I decided to start looking.

I downloaded a few apps in February and I was more appalled than ever at how I was treated. Zero interest shown in me as a person, just cheesy lines and entitlement and shocking rudeness. A "tell me why I should bother with you" attitude rather than any kind of friendly chat. I feel like previously I might have tried to impress these men, but this time, I just thought, why the fuck should I entertain this crap? I deleted all the apps and decided to focus on meeting people in person through things like hiking groups, but have had very little luck there either. The men I've met just seemed so incurious and so rude, as in going on and on about themselves, no questions to me, and again I just thought, I cannot be arsed with this. It's like something inside me has just snapped. I can't figure out whether it's because I've decided not to have kids and no longer "need" a man or what, but it's like something in me has died. I just don't think I can do it anymore. The getting my hopes up only to have them dashed once again by an incredibly disappointing man. Wondering if this one is also going to be abusive. Wondering if I'm going to be cheated on. Spending months or years investing in the relationship, building relationships with his friends and family only to never see any of them ever again once it ends. It's like I'd rather just build a life on my own, on my terms, that won't be destroyed by someone else's actions or whims.

I would like to know if any of this is remotely normal and if anyone else has been there? I can't work out whether I'm badly depressed or this is actually a positive realisation of something I just couldn't see before? I genuinely feel right now that the vast, vast majority of men just completely rinse and drain you and want a live-in maid and sex on tap with little to offer in return, and I feel like I've seen something I can't unsee, if that makes sense? I feel almost repulsed by men now, as if they're predators I need to avoid. I even see it in the relationships of people around me, whether it's friends or colleges or strangers in cafes and pubs. Women trying to placate moody, rude, entitled, arsey men who act like they're doing the world a favour by existing. For the first time in my entire life, I feel almost relieved and happy to be single. Is this the reality? And if it is, how do I learn to cope with the loneliness and build a meaningful life when it feels like everyone else's lives centre around their partners and kids?

So you think @whiteroseredrose your friend should "settle" in order to have a relationship? Force herself to fancy someone when she clearly doesn't? You need to or at least should fancy someone, yes physically too, in order to have a romantic relationship, surely?

You're right op@PetuniaPotter it is very easy to find a bloke, very hard to find a decent one.

@PetuniaPotter you sound like a sweetheart. You really do. Anyway, I also think it’s bullshit you have to enjoy holidays alone. I’ve done it all and holidays are definitely way better with someone! I won’t travel alone anymore cos it’s boring. I need someone to travel with me, luckily, I have my DCs, my friends and when I have a partner, I do that. If not, I go on like surf or yoga retreats where I know there will be plenty of single people to hang out with…

I’m also in London and I also hate the meetup groups etc. I actually think it’s worse for me to go to a group social than to have a one-on-one date. But that’s just me. The apps can be dire… I think sometimes I swipe 200 nos before I would do a yes. But I don’t care. I approach each date in a friendly manner, I don’t mind having a kiss on the first date but if anyone pressurises me into more and unless I feel the same, I don’t give them my time either… it’s take quite a while for me to develop this mindset to OLD.

Another man at a meetup was appallingly patronising when I said I worked in tech, basically insinuating that I was only hired because I was a woman and "there's all this fashionable girls who code stuff", despite the fact that I've been into it my entire life and was coding by the time I was 10. This is so, so common to the point I'm surprised if a man actually treats me as an equal or a human being. The vast majority seem to just assume they're better than me and smarter than me despite zero evidence to back it up.

The one and only time I've sacked a volunteer, it was an older man who worked in IT. You really have to be going some to be sacked from a volunteer position, but being a know-it-all who thinks that after one training session they know more than the trainer, will do it. So broadly, if you work in IT you will already be working with men more likely to be misogynist pricks. Or, as a trait it just shows up earlier.

I think your attitude is healthy OP. It might seem cynical, but honestly cynicism at this point is a healthy reaction to circumstances. There are not a lot of decent men out there, and even fewer decent single ones. One thing I would say though is that sometimes fundamentally decent men are single, either because they're also picky or because being decent on its own doesn't necessarily mean they'll find a partner.

You can see it in this comment There is a lovely man in her village who sometimes walks her dogs for her. He clearly adores her but she just isn't interested because he is quiet and not her charismatic wastrel type. Now, she doesn't have to be interested in him. She might just not find him attractive. Being lovely and interested in someone should be the baseline, not something that results in people saying you must go out with someone, just because they seem nice.

I'm afraid I don't have much advice about combatting the loneliness, beyond the usual, but if it helps, I do think you're right. It's not you. There just aren't that many good men out there.

Of course you need to be attracted to someone to want a romantic relationship. But I think unfortunately with OLD etc, it's resulted in many people never being satisfied. There are plenty of men out there who are still decent, yet a lot of people still hang out hope that they'll find something 'better', even if it's really unrealistic.

I know someone who regularly talks about how she's been treated badly by every man she's been with before, wonders why she can't find someone nice etc. And yet, she'll reduce her chances further over incredibly superficial characteristics that have no bearing on how someone is. She won't go for anyone who has blonde hair, for instance, or anyone who is shorter than her.
How silly is it to still be like that in your 30s?

All I'd say to OP is notice people who make a genuine effort with you. I very much doubt that there's nobody out there for you. Chances are, there's likely now someone who'd love the chance to get to know you, but they just won't have been on your radar.

If looking your age puts some men off then they're not men you'd want to be with.

It's like I'd rather just build a life on my own, on my terms, that won't be destroyed by someone else's actions or whims

This line in your OP really called to me, as it’s exactly how I feel now. People say you shouldn’t base your happiness on another person but if you’re with someone who’s treating you badly, how can you stay happy in the face of that? Conversely if someone treats you well then of course it will increase your happiness. You can’t be in a relationship and your happiness not be tied to the other person.

Ironically I think accepting things as they are for you now and building the life you want is probably your best chance in the end of meeting someone decent. The apps are a waste of time. They attract a lot of men you wouldn’t want to be with. Live life on your terms and your confidence and happiness is more likely to draw the right man to you. I’m in my 50’s and it’s something I wish I had realised decades ago.

There are no guarantees. Truthfully yes, many of the decent men are already “taken”. That’s just a fact. But there are still some out there, or so I like to believe! I’d say give yourself a break from it all. Don’t go looking for someone. It doesn’t mean you’ll be alone “forever”, but just take the pressure off yourself. I’m finding the more time that passes the less I even care whether I ever meet someone.

I’ll say one thing , which is that understandly you are pissed off with most men right now . But every single reactions seems to be charged and negative .
that’s a very joyless way to feel if you want to date and meet men .

look live had my fair share of shit dating , we all have .

but maybe you need to try and cultivate positive male interactions , not dating (100% not dating )

but interface with men and try and see which ones are decent , nice to their wife ?
Which builder or plumber did a job and was nice and professional

Exactly. There's thread after thread here about women's lives being destroyed because they found out their partner is cheating or has lied about something enormous. I just feel like I don't want to deal with that risk anymore. I don't want to be living with a man who could turn out to be a monster. And if you're unlucky, your entire life can come crashing down.

At least on your own, you can build a life that someone else's actions can't destroy. I'm sick to death of putting so much effort into getting to know a man's friends or family only for the relationship to end and never see any of them again. What's the point? I could be spending that time on learning new skills or a new language or building my own social circle or even working a second job to boost my savings so I can go on a really fancy holiday or remodel my flat. It feels like these investments are guaranteed to pay off, whereas relationships are just a gamble. I follow a woman on Twitter who's single and in her mid forties and making amazing money and living my dream life in New York, and I realise that could still actually be me. I can make a solid plan with milestones and goals and actually achieve that all on my own...this just didn't seem possible to me even a few years ago. I look back and I want to weep at all the time I wasted from 31 to now in rubbish relationships with shitty men, arguing about nonsense, when I could have been building my career like this woman. Her academic and professional background is almost identical to mine...she just didn't bother with relationships at all. I invested time into relationships only to be left with nothing.

I definitely am caring much, much less about meeting someone, but that also scares me a bit. Will I feel the same at 43? Will I be regretting that I didn't get out there at the relatively young age of 37? I'm feeling burned out. My brain is screaming at me to just enjoy life on my terms for now and binge Netflix and go on long solo walks and not to force myself to go out and socialise and meet people in case it's 'too late' but what if I'm just making it even harder for myself later? Even without wanting kids, it's hard to shake off that 'last chance saloon' feeling.

@xfan I think she should give different people a chance. Get to know them properly and see what happens. Let's face it, her usual type makes her miserable (and have cost her a fortune). IMO there is more to a relationship than the first few months of lust. When that calms down there needs to be something else.

DH is very different to the men I dated in my 20s. It was amazing when he called when he said he would and didn't play mind games. We've been married nearly 25 years and I love him more each day.

This is kind of the point though?

If I'm supposed to be impressed by a man behaving like a normal, decent human being, isn't the bar just ridiculously low? A tradesman being nice and professional when I'm paying them a fortune for a half hour job is the absolute rock bottom bare minimum of what I expect!

My interactions with men in my everyday life are just dire, on the whole. I regularly get barged out of the way on the street by 'I'm so important' types in suits. Men race past me to sit down on the Tube. I'm spoken down to and patronised at professional networking events. I catch men covertly filming me at the gym. I get cat called out of car windows. I feel like a very significant percentage of men just absolutely hate women and/or see us as barely human and the more I interact with them, the more I feel this way. It feels like almost every aspect of my life is made much, much worse by the presence of men, and now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it.

I know what you mean re the last chance thing but I can tell you at the age of 53 I look back at my late 30s and wish I hadn't wasted so much time on relationships that gave me nothing in the end. They just took from me.

I also would have loved to live and work abroad. If I'd focused on that I bet I'd be doing it now. Instead I now feel too old and I have a fear of change that wasn't there 15 years ago. I blame menopause!

If you want that dream life in New York, go for it! Even if it doesn't pan out you will know you tried. We have been conditioned to believe being coupled up is the "goal" in life. An exciting life in New York sounds like a much better goal to me.

PetuniaPotter

i hear you

as whilst I’ve had some shit over the years I’ve also had some very positive interactions
and as I’m raising DS I have to try and look for the positives (which do exist for me at least )

this is your truth and I don’t dispute it or minimise it

but this might be an issue a bit wider than dating etc ? If this is how you feel - dating is going to be fuxking toxic and make you feel worse

Maybe a quiet, initially unimpressive man, met in association with an interest or hobby you have, could be just what you’re looking for. I hope you do meet someone and wish you well.

@PetuniaPotter , I do feel you can find love at any age. So, I don't feel stressed by whether I meet someone today or tomorrow. But perhaps I speak from a position of privilege where I've already had all the children I want and almost past the age of having them anyway and also been married once. Don't get my wrong, I get pangs of longing sometimes when I see friends in good marriages/relationships but they are by far, few and in-between and I love the freedom I have.

I think you are taking a lot of the negative male experiences very personally. People rush past me all the time, women and men, I certainly don't see it as an exclusive male thing. And my last 'bad' professional interaction was actually with a woman who was very rude to me. I don't think that is a male/female divide. I do understand there is an Incel movement but that's super niche and like I said, most of my experiences this time round with men on dating apps have been lovely.

It's a bit reductive to say most men are one way or the other. Much like I would be incensed to hear a man say we women are all this way or that. One of the guys I am dating said to me he had one woman asked him to buy her a present to bring on the first date and she was serious! It was a particular makeup set. Is it fair for him to say then that all women just want a man to buy presents and pay for dinner? I bloody hope not! And even though you and I are not like that, it doesn't mean there are NOT women out there who treat men on dating apps like a cash/present machine...

A good point well made @TwoBoysTooMany76

This is such an insightful thread. Thank you OP for bringing it up. I'm in my early 50s now and my experience of men is essentially that their core need is to be admired. It has nothing to do with wanting a relationship with the woman, and often once he has her admiration he loses interest. I have come to think of them like peacocks. It's their main drive, stronger even than sex.

I found that most men were not worthy of the kind of admiration they wanted. I was very happy to admire a man, but I was often so much more capable and talented than they were, and it was boring and dispiriting once I realised how limited they actually were. I looked around and saw how many talented women were wasting their lives on men who were simply less than them and the men did not have the grace to realise it. Men generally do not want to admire women.

Occasionally, through my work I have come across genuinely admirable men. Men who are more talented than I am. I found it more bearable to be around them because I was genuine in my admiration. But again, I do not want to be someone's mirror and helpmeet, not even someone fantastic, and even those men could not really take an interest in someone else. They could only respond to me in direct proportion to how much I admired them. They saw themselves through my eyes.

My ex husband was the classic example. He was a lot older than me, desperately vain, and needy of admiration. He didn't really 'see' me at all. I was desperate to admire someone, in my way was quite naive, and decided that age, class and confidence added up to something. It was a lonely marriage where none of my dreams or talents far greater than his were ever nurtured. BUT when I left the marriage and followed my own dream and he was left alone, it took a long time but he began to reflect. Latterly he has become much kinder. He is beginning to see how he stifled me. I have a hope that he may, in the end be a good friend.

But this only proves the other thing I have learned about men. It is ALWAYS about power, in my experience. A man will never change, nor behave better unless and until you have power. This is why you are finding they come to you after you have left. This is the problem with heterosexual relationships I think. They are based in power, and smooth running of them relies on the woman, almost always the less powerful one, never speaking of it. I did, and all hell broke loose, but I am freer and happier than I have ever been. Maybe next time when you meet a man and he starts up all this crap, don't just dump him, less of the 'next!' . Instead think where you are powerful and act on that. And start speaking up, tell him how you feel and how awful he is being to another human being. Articulate those power structures. Not as a discussion, simply information. And THEN go if you want to. It's so much more peaceful that way, and it opens up a dialogue that in the end is more human and holds more possibilities than simply being disappointed and leaving.

Sorry for long post, hope it might be helpful. Good luck OP, you sound absolutely brilliant.

Captainfairylights

I agree With the power comment you Made

gosh I’ve never thought of it in those exact terms
but it’s such a thing and was a major driver in different ways for both my exes

Have you done any shadow work? Have you explored and made friends with your inner masculine and feminine? Find in person or online groups or books that do this work and this is a great place to start and balance everything out, after a while you'll find that these men you describe aren't even in your orbit

I met my husband in our forties through OLD after years of rubbish relationships and bad online dating.
What I did differently that time was:

• look geographically further away
• make my profile clear I was looking for happy ever after (filters out the dick pic types )
• used a site where you can see how people have answered set questions and your % match based on that (ok Cupid) and didn't bother with anyone under 90%. Filters out people saying different bullshit to different people depending what they think they want to hear and people you don't agree with on important things (if you put the time in answering and rating importance of questions).

-Don't filter on things that don't matter. I know a gem of a single man who really struggles with old as he's 5'6" and women won't even accept a message, he's so warm and kind and generous though and financially solid, they are missing out.

I think it's also important to make sure there's lots of positive stuff going on in my life, career wise and socially, not expecting one man to be my whole social life, and that I'm feeling happy generally.

Also remembering you only need to find one helps make the sifting process less disheartening!

It's horrible putting yourself out there but it seems to be the only way. Good luck.

It sounds like you're doing the right things and if that means that you keep meeting and ditching these red flaggers then so be it. Better off in the "hell no" pile. A lot of women sadly do tolerate shit behaviour and abuse... miss the red flags so the relationship progresses to a stage where it's harder to walk away, or continue to hope that the men will change/improve with time. No judgement as I have also done this.

You're in a better position refusing to do that even if it means you end up single the majority of the time. I'd rather be single than with a wrong one.
There are obviously some good men out there but I can't tell you where.

Also- and I am genuinely not being funny here- but have you ever considered the possibility that you actually don't like men?

An excellent exploration Captainfairylights. Thank you.

Have you considered that the only reason you may have got what you wanted is by luck and random timing? Plenty of women have die what you did, and still aren't meeting suitable partners.

I think part of the problem for many women is that whilst we find (some) men sexually attractive, and are not sexually attracted to women, we actually prefer the company of women in general. Men are often dismissive, don't listen, aren't that engaged emotionally and persist in thinking they are in some way better or more intelligent and talented than us, despite much evidence to the contrary.

So you're left thinking, well OK, I might shag you, especially if your personality improved, but I don't actually like you very much. Thinking of friends' partners, some are just mansplaining pillocks. Some are flat out aggressive and use their physical presence to intimidate. Even the ones who don't direct aggression at me can be unpleasant because they get so randomly stressed and shouty.

I'm really lucky I've found a man who isn't like that. But they are few and far between IME.

WisherWood

agree
this is why my current strategy is FWB / casual
with some caveats naturally

seeks to work for them too (the men) so 🤷‍♀️