Should I just give up hope of ever finding someone?

[PetuniaPotter]

Name changed as this is sensitive and I'm embarrassed! I'm 37 (almost 38) and have been single for about six months now, following the end of an absolute shitshow of a relationship. I would absolutely love to meet someone and am so incredibly lonely, but I just don't seem to be able to muster up any enthusiasm whatsoever and I feel like I really need some help and guidance.

Basically, I feel like I have never, ever been treated well by men and I don't understand it. I can't work out whether it's me or whether most men are just awful and other women just tolerate it? It always seems to be the same old pattern of the man being all excited at first and then things going to shit, and it always feels like it's because he can't control me and everything about the relationship. It feels like there are always these terrible power struggles, and trying to assert myself (as in literally be treated like a human being with feelings and needs) results in being degraded and ultimately disregarded, and each and every time I'm left completely drained of energy and hope.

The last relationship was wonderful for the first few months and then I noticed the pattern creeping in again...he seemed to desperately need to control everything. Something as simple as me trying to make plans with him would anger him. He seemed to want me to just sit around and wait for him to invite me to do stuff. I won't go into too much details about this one relationship as I feel it's not the point, but I feel like this was in a way one time too many, and for the first time ever, I actually feel like I should just give up on dating and hoping to find someone.

Looking back (and with the help of a therapist), many of my relationships were downright abusive, and I tolerated it because I was feeling desperate for a husband and kids. I can now see that this clouded my judgement and caused me to stay in bad situations - because each time I felt like I'd be wasting the time already invested and that this might be the best it would get. I have now decided to give up on the dream of having kids - I think I've left it too late, I think I'd struggle with a lot of the aspects of being a mum, and for the first time in my life, I have financial security through my job, and I don't think I'd feel safe ever relying on a man again. I feel a sense of relief at having made this decision, as it takes away the immediate urge of absolutely needing to find a partner asap, with my age being what it is, but I'm still aware that dating is only going to get harder and harder from here (I've recently started to visibly age recently after looking very young for years, which is really getting me down) so I decided to start looking.

I downloaded a few apps in February and I was more appalled than ever at how I was treated. Zero interest shown in me as a person, just cheesy lines and entitlement and shocking rudeness. A "tell me why I should bother with you" attitude rather than any kind of friendly chat. I feel like previously I might have tried to impress these men, but this time, I just thought, why the fuck should I entertain this crap? I deleted all the apps and decided to focus on meeting people in person through things like hiking groups, but have had very little luck there either. The men I've met just seemed so incurious and so rude, as in going on and on about themselves, no questions to me, and again I just thought, I cannot be arsed with this. It's like something inside me has just snapped. I can't figure out whether it's because I've decided not to have kids and no longer "need" a man or what, but it's like something in me has died. I just don't think I can do it anymore. The getting my hopes up only to have them dashed once again by an incredibly disappointing man. Wondering if this one is also going to be abusive. Wondering if I'm going to be cheated on. Spending months or years investing in the relationship, building relationships with his friends and family only to never see any of them ever again once it ends. It's like I'd rather just build a life on my own, on my terms, that won't be destroyed by someone else's actions or whims.

I would like to know if any of this is remotely normal and if anyone else has been there? I can't work out whether I'm badly depressed or this is actually a positive realisation of something I just couldn't see before? I genuinely feel right now that the vast, vast majority of men just completely rinse and drain you and want a live-in maid and sex on tap with little to offer in return, and I feel like I've seen something I can't unsee, if that makes sense? I feel almost repulsed by men now, as if they're predators I need to avoid. I even see it in the relationships of people around me, whether it's friends or colleges or strangers in cafes and pubs. Women trying to placate moody, rude, entitled, arsey men who act like they're doing the world a favour by existing. For the first time in my entire life, I feel almost relieved and happy to be single. Is this the reality? And if it is, how do I learn to cope with the loneliness and build a meaningful life when it feels like everyone else's lives centre around their partners and kids?

I dunno. I maybe should have ended it, and nearly did, several times. I'm also definitely guilty of feeling like this is my "last chance". So your boundaries are probably far better than mine.

A very positive realisation based on reality. Unlikely to resonate on mumsnet perhaps but some of us are with you.

There's nothing wrong with your cognition or emotional self awareness.

The failure of society to raise better men, and its complicity in not challenging shitty male behaviour...from Boris Johnson to the guy in the office...means that choosing NOT to tolerate selfishness, chauvinism, control or deceit can rapidly lead to the realisation that one is likely to remain single.

Online dating abuse is the norm. Yet women tell each other "youve got to put up with it to find a good one". Good grief.

You don't need to accept less than you want.

You don't have to compromise.

You don't need a baby father. You don't need someone to pay your bills. You don't need someone to chase wild bears away.

You'll feel less lonely when you find other connections. With kindred spirits and enlightened beings.

There's nothing lonelier after all for an intelligent woman of depth and integrity than being tied to an ignorant, overbearing, emotionally stunted man.

I'm sorry but come on! There are people out there who are alone for 20 years and more and you are 'incredibly lonely' after 6 months?!
Apart from that I offer you a spiritual experience on your relationships. You clearly recognise your tendency to fall for controlling men. I am not here to analyse their side of the fence (probably low self worth and anxiety though). A spiritualist perspective will tell you you will keep repeating this pattern until you have learned the lesson. Then it will stop. I think you need to understand why you keep doing this when you can see it is getting you nowhere. Think deeply. Ask others who actually know you how they see you in relationships. I think inability to be on your own may be a factor but perhaps that is exactly what you need for now.

Inability to be on my own...what are you talking about? It's the complete opposite. I have been single for almost all my adult life. I didn't have a relationship at all until I was 31 (and I'm only 37 now!) and I've never been married, never lived with a partner. I live alone. I walk away from relationships as soon as I realise it's definitely not going to work. I have been on my own more than 95% of people, I'm sure!

My most recent relationship ended 6 months ago and yes, I'm feeling quite lonely, as I have a chronic illness which has hugely impacted on my ability to socialise, especially during Covid, I WFH and can sometimes go days without seeing another human, and obviously the thought of being alone forever more isn't exactly appealing, but neither is the thought of tolerating some awful man.

I don't think it's exactly unusual to worry about loneliness when you find yourself single and childless in your late thirties and are wondering what to do with your life, whether to keep trying for a relationship or just accept that you're going to have to find a different path.

Yes, I feel like people keep telling me I must be doing something wrong, but they're not really responding to what I've actually written. If I were a codependent person who couldn't be alone, I wouldn't be in this situation, would I?

It seems like there's just so much pandering to incredibly poor behaviour from men and I don't get it. I don't want to have to endure abuse and misery just to find a nice, normal man...that can't be right, can it? Surely dating is supposed to be fun? How can it be that wanting something as innocent as a human connection means having to tolerate dick pics, nasty comments, having to worry about being stalked if they find out any info about you? Having to worry that your photo and profile will appear on some horrible incel forum to be ripped apart by strangers? And that's all before you get into an actual relationship with someone who could well turn out to be abusive.

I guess I've been holding out hope of meeting a lovely, genuine, gentle, kind man, but anyone I meet who fits this description has obviously been long snapped up! I think I'm a fairly good catch, still attractive and reasonably fit and I think a decent and genuine person, but I have never felt appreciated. I seem to repeatedly get taken for granted, only for men to then realise later that they messed up and spend months bombarding me with unwanted messages. I don't get it at all.

I do really want connections but I just don't even know where to start to find like minded people. I feel quite lost and unsure what to do now that almost all my friends are busy with partners and babies. Choosing a different path can be really isolating. I know I probably need to find something to give purpose and meaning to my life but I don't quite know where to start. I feel like I missed a lot of my youth through illness...never been to a festival or anything like that. I always dreamed of working in the film or entertainment industry, even as an extra for a bit of fun/extra money, but now I feel like I'm a bit old for that. I just feel so lost.

OP, your standards are high. I’d say it’s absolutely a good thing! But it’s also a reason why everyone else seems to be in long term relationships and you struggle - because many people actually do tolerate a lot that I wouldn’t!

Apart from my own DH (who is obviously amazing haha) and maybe like 2-3 friends that seem to have solid equal respectful partnerships/marriages with lovely kind men (at least from what I can see), some of my friends’ husbands (that they’re generally happy with and have no intention of leaving, but I would personally not tolerate) include:

• Husband who goes out drinking with mates 3x a week while the wife does bath & bedtime alone with two toddlers (and is also pregnant) and rarely goes out herself
• Husband who works part time while wife works full time, yet he insists in her making cooked dinners every night and doing all housework (oh and he also goes out for a hobby a few times a week but doesn’t want to let her go to gym and is quite controlling)
• Husband who stopped working 5 years ago due to depression, never got proper treatment and just sits at home playing video games while wife pays all the bills and does all the work
• Husband with anger issues, very harsh with the kids when he’s in his mood, wife keeps excusing him
• Husband who never shuts up about how amazing he is, barely lets the wife talk when socializing (whenever I meet with them in order to see my friend, he still does 80% of the talking)
• Husband who already cheated on her before wedding (though it seems they’re happy now)
• Husband who took off to live in another country when their child was about 2, as he “wasn’t sure what he wanted from life”, then she still took him in when he returned a couple years later

I could go on. Most of these friends I have known since forever and they all used to tell me, as I was dating unsuccessfully throughout my 20’s, that I am too picky, that I need to be more flexible, more tolerant… Well I’m glad I didn’t listen to them!!! I met my DH on a completely random night out, so there’s also an element of luck, and at that point I really wasn’t looking for anyone so perhaps I was more relaxed in my approach too and it helped. I do think good relationships are in fact quite hard to find.

You’re right that by removing the element of having kids you might hopefully find it easier to relax when dating, but also to take some time to focus on yourself - explore new hobbies, go traveling on your own, work with a therapist to see if maybe it’s something about your relationship pattern that lands you in bad relationships (but I think you’re actually doing well by recognizing the red flags early).
You can also freeze your eggs and maybe have kids in your 40’s if you do change your mind about that.

The good men you see who are all taken well have the same flaws. From the outside marriages may seem idyllic but they usually aren’t. That’s not to say they are unhappy but everything is a compromise. My DH and I live entirely separate lives but stay together for financial reasons and because one of our children has SEN and the is no reason to split up the family as our lives are okay. He works away a lot and precisely has liaisons but it works for us. Many women on here would tell me to leave and would not accept the situation but it works for us.
People negotiate their own arrangements and having a partner is a compromise.

@PetuniaPotter

Hi your post really resonated with me

I'm a solo mum by choice and had my son using a sperm donor. For me, it has finally put a stop to looking for a relationship (the way I used to pre-child).

I too had spent many years in and out of variously unsuitable relationships, I can't work out whether it was just bad luck and timing, or has it got something to do with me (fundamentally). But then, I have now tried OLD again, and this time round I'm not even looking for someone to settle down with, just someone I like and find attractive (on a physical and emotional level), and this is proving to be a fruitless pursuit.

I agree with @notsurewherenotsurewhy that many women tolerate/settle for behaviours which they find substandard in order to obtain a family unit, financial security, practical help, social status. It's only that I have realised to what degree they're prepared to do that having decided to go it alone with solo parenthood. Life as a single person is challenging especially financially for most, so I'm not surprised that many can't/won't attempt to build a life of their own, truly on their terms.

I have no practical advice, am happy to answer any questions you may have about solo parenting (though I understand it is not something you'd be willing to pursue).

Perhaps do some counselling to find out why you end up with losers.
Or try a life coach.
I think we are uncosnciously very influenced by our upbringing. Perhaps there is something there you need to think about.

I’m with you OP, I don’t tolerate men behaving like that either. It’s interesting that some of my friends will say my standards are high when all I am looking for is a man who can treat me with respect, doesn’t look like he’s been wearing the same clothes for the last 15 years, can have a conversation other than about sport, is kind, thoughtful and doesn’t have a phone full of prostitute’s numbers.

For me these are basic hygiene factors, not standards!

Even though the OP has written from a place of anger and sadness, I think her attitide is fundamentally actually healthy. Reframe it from a positive perspective: it's absolutely true that most men aren't people you want to be in a relationship with. In a lot of cases it's because they're arseholes and in a lot of cases it's just sheer incompatibility. (The two are not mutually exclusive: what one woman thinks is intolerable behaviour is what another woman thinks is fine. I'm talking things like domestic habits and political views, not abuse, obviously.)

So the answer is always to be happy and content on your own - to rid yourself of needing a partner. Yes, it takes work to get there. But once you get there, the fact that 99% of men are arseholes or incompatible stops mattering. Because if a man who genuinely enhances your life comes along, it'll feel natural. If you think he comes along but it turns out he wasn't the one, that's a bit sad but also ultimately fine because you're still content by yourself. And if he doesn't come along... you're still content.

I wouldn't call it giving up hope, I'd call it giving up need. That's a good thing.

But where are all these nice men!? It's not something I'm choosing, literally every single man I meet just seems awful, including most of my friends' and colleagues' husbands and partners.

For example, at a recent work do, I ended up next to the husband of a woman on my team and he literally just talked AT me for an hour. Mansplaining about topics I knew far more about than he did, including going into detail about a language he was learning without even thinking to ask me if I spoke it or had ever learned any. Just that seemingly male assumption that a woman couldn't possibly know anything worthwhile.

Another man at a meetup was appallingly patronising when I said I worked in tech, basically insinuating that I was only hired because I was a woman and "there's all this fashionable girls who code stuff", despite the fact that I've been into it my entire life and was coding by the time I was 10. This is so, so common to the point I'm surprised if a man actually treats me as an equal or a human being. The vast majority seem to just assume they're better than me and smarter than me despite zero evidence to back it up.

How has that got anything to do with me or my upbringing?

Id prescribe a long period of being single

many people (women ) fall into this pattern of accepting shit behaviour , and without a pause two things happen IMO

you OLD when you feel shit , you get shit . You cannot OLD when you feel sad and low

some time gives you space to think and understand why you accepted this and why you didn’t walk earlier . It’s painful 😣
but you also have a type and you gravitate to them

it’s not just you !
FWB are easy to find for sex etc but a decent relationship , harder

Well, that's what I'm asking, really. I think I already am in a place where I don't "need" a partner due to being financially stable and not wanting kids anymore. I just don't know if my attitude is healthy. I feel so jaded and cynical. I really would love to find a genuine, kind partner to enjoy life with, I just don't see how.

I feel like women are always kind of gaslighted and told things like to enjoy being happy alone, but I already do that. I've lived alone for years, I almost always go on holiday alone, I'm alone almost all the time! Far more than most of the people who are telling me to learn to be happy on my own, almost all of whom are in long term relationships! I don't think they really get how incredibly lonely it is to be truly alone for most of your life.

One thing I love is going out for food/drinks and it's something that's so, so much better with a partner. Yes, I can join meetup groups or go out with friends, but it's not the same. It's very taxing having to make small talk with strangers and my friends are usually busy, with plans having to be made weeks in advance. I really miss just saying "do you fancy trying that Italian place for dinner?" and just going out on a Friday night without a load of palaver! Same with stuff like travel - I would love someone to go for drinks with in the evenings rather than having to constantly befriend strangers or stick to the hotel bar for safety reasons. I just really would love to have that default person to do stuff with, who has my back!

I was in the airport recently going on yet another solo trip, having a coffee, and there was a seemingly lovely couple at the next table, around my age, no kids. They just seemed to adore each other, they were laughing and joking the whole time, he was really respectful to her, spoke kindly and warmly. She'd just been browsing in one of the shops and he asked her if she'd seen anything nice and was genuinely interested in her answer, which was about seeing make-up! She thought it was too expensive and he encouraged her to treat herself. They just truly seemed like best friends and really compatible. Stuff like that makes me feel really lonely. Why can't I find that? Why is it so hard?

I really relate to your post OP.

I think as this thread shows there are several issues that make finding a decent partner so difficult:

• online dating: I would say the majority of men on most apps/sites are not worth your time. There is a staggering amount of men who are not really single and are cheating on their partners, men who only seek casual sex, men who confuse online dating and online porn and men with issues (lazy, alcohol and/or drug addiction

• Although women's rights have made a lot of progress and women now have different expectations, many men still have not caught up with this. They still are unable to see women as equal, full human beings. Instead they see women as possessions/sexual objects. And they justify controlling and violent behaviour based on that.

• online porn: in my opinion that has poisoned relationships and what men think sex should like

If you have a history of low-self-esteem and toxic relationships it is also very possibly that you are repeating the circle and attracting this type of men. Predators do seem to have a six sense when it comes to spotting women who may be vulnerable and less likely to call them out on their shitty behaviour.

There is also no doubt that dating becomes harder when you are a bit older as the good guys are usually in relationships/already have families.

I think it is better to just get on with your own life and develop your interests and passions (travel, sports, volunteering, hobbies, pets, work) and try to meet people organically. It also means you accept that happiness does not have to be only about relationships.

I would never have anything to do again with online dating as I have had such bad experiences.

Instead I just focus on building a life for myself, if I meet someone who brings something positive to the mix then great, if I don't then I can still have my happy life. I must say I am much happier than when I was dating.

Was there another random incel/red piller on here "the only reason women end up so glad & childless in their 30s is because they focused on their career, chased bad boys and rode the cock carousel. They wouldn't give betas like me a chance .... They're so hypergamous and shallow (while rating women physically out of 10 and demanding a 6/7+). Lol.

They keep popping up in this forum like whack a mole

online dating: I would say the majority of men on most apps/sites are not worth your time. There is a staggering amount of men who are not really single and are cheating on their partners, men who only seek casual sex, men who confuse online dating and online porn and men with issues (lazy, alcohol and/or drug addiction

I agree 100%.

Old is mostly a cess pool of the worst types of men.

I do know women whov e met seemingly decent parents on there however. Maybe it's just time/chance.

You need to trash sift. The trash sifting becomes demoralising though.

*decent men lol

I think my problem is I give too much benefit of the doubt and question my own judgement too much
I worry I might be binning too soon and letting a good one go.
Instead of bailing at the first red flags like I believe most people do .

People are uncomfortable with admitting that most of their partner choices involve to a lesser or greater degree compromise and tolerance. They want to believe it was s choice when most people don't realise have that they don't have a lot of choice when it comes to endless supply of suitable partners. They also realise that if they want children they need to plan this as they'd most likely run out of time and be childless - many women do don't want to go it alone for a variety of reasons. There is such a taboo around this. In the West, people are conditioned that romantic partnerships are based on love but it is unavoidable and very uncomfortable to admit that you've settled for other reasons (liking someone may be a part of it) with whoever you can get at the time especially in their 30s as starting all over again for most would not result in a relationship with marriage and children.
The more freedom you have to make about your life the less likely you're to settle so you're looking for someone you genuinely want to be with. I don't think most people are soulmates. Divorce rates hovering around 50% speaks volumes for itself.

@PetuniaPotter It does sound still like you desperately want a relationship. In some ways, there is nothing wrong with that. We humans are built to crave and want connections, whether it is sexual, friendship or whatever. But you also need to build your own, fulfilling life that works with or without a relationship. And dating and finding someone who can add on to your already wonderful life should be the bonus and not the must-have. Otherwise, the wrong sort of men will always be attracted to you.

I’m 46 and I got divorced 10 years ago and came out of a 2-year relationship last September? I took 6 months out and since the beginning of this year, everything has been great with my life. I then started dating about a month ago (through the apps) and since then, I’ve met 5 guys and I can say hand on heart, they were all mostly nice. But perhaps, my bullshit meter is also set high and any sign of bad behaviour, they are out! I went on a second date with one guy I had good chemistry with and he brought his dog and it was badly behaved and I thought I don’t need this in my life and I dumped him. Not saying there’s no issues (two were widowers and one was clearly not ready to date!), but I’ve now been on 5 dates with one guy whom I initially dismissed as boring but actually, he’s a sweetheart and I really like him. But I’m not jumping in head first either, I’m going to take my time to know him.

And I have another first date tomorrow. So, let’s see. I guess what I’m saying is if you don’t want kids or a husband anymore, then build your other fulfilling relationships in your life, this week, I’ve gone for a birthday dinner with one of my closest girlfriends. Tomorrow, it’s the theatre and dating happens when I have spare time. Don’t get me wrong, when I am in a relationship, I am fully committed but at this stage, you don’t know these men and you can’t rely on any of them to make you happy.

I have a really close friend who like you was seriously ill in her 20s (cancer) and she then spent her 30s dating inappropriate men (like we all do in our 20s but hers was delayed!). She is now in her 40s and her lack of a love life is a real downer for her but I think she has a self-esteem issue stemming from many things, one of which is her cancer diagnosis, which leads her to pick men who cannot commit. IMO, she needs to see a therapist to unpick all of that but that’s her choice and in the meantime, I will just support her as a friend. Not saying this is you but I don’t even think she is aware of what she is doing… she has now been in remission for over 20 years but if you meet her for the first time, she will bring up the cancer within 5 minutes. It’s really sad.

If more women were like you OP the general standard of men would improve.

It beggars belief how some men can persuade anyone to give them sex, let alone wash their dirty underwear, some of them aren't even that rich!

Have you tried a more specific dating site? Like the classicFM dating? Bit outside the norm.

I'm just not seeing where the desperation is. People keep saying it but I don't get it. If I were desperate for a relationship, I'd be in one. It's not hard to find a man, is it? It's just hard to find a decent one!

It's surely completely normal to want companionship and someone to share your life with? As I said, I do almost everything alone! I am trying to build a fulfilling life, but that's far easier said than done as a late thirties woman in pandemic (I'm still at risk from Covid due to my health issues) and a terrible economic climate where many people just seem as jaded, exhausted and cynical as I feel. People say things like "just join a Meetup group" or "go to gym classes" but I don't think they get how taxing it is to constantly have to socialise with strangers. A lot of people in London just want to do the activity and then get on with their busy lives. Even work is no longer an option to build friendships and get to know new people because I WFH almost all the time.

It feels like the apps are really the only way of meeting a partner now, as you are doing, but I genuinely don't think I can face them again. As I said, there's just too much potential for problems. I don't want my photos out there being seen and screenshotted by God knows who. It doesn't feel safe or comfortable to me.

But you've probably rejected plenty of men who would treat you well, but they're not your type physically or whatever.

I think this could be a factor. People often fall into a rut, going for the same 'type' and as always it ends up badly.

Good friend was like this, lots of disastrous relationships with men that she subconsciously wanted to 'save' - abusive arseholes the lot of them. There is a lovely man in her village who sometimes walks her dogs for her. He clearly adores her but she just isn't interested because he is quiet and not her charismatic wastrel type.