Advice for a husband please!

[Justarandomguy1]

Hi,

I’m not sure if this is the right place to post so apologies if it’s not, I’d be grateful for some different perspectives on this in any event.

I recently found out that my wife has been saying some quite mean and cruel things about me to one of her female friends who she’s known a few years, via sharing what I’d considered to be personal discussions between us.

The comments were mostly about how I think I’m a good father, but I’m not really compared to others (i.e. that I do no more than average or what is expected) and that my wife doesn’t really think I’m a feminist, and that if she left, I likely would only then realise what she does for me and our household. Her friend was talking about someone else’s husband is really supportive and a feminist etc and my wife’s view was that is was the “dream”, suggesting that what we have together is far from what she wants, needs or should have.

In terms of me, I have quite a senior role (C-suite level) in a fairly large company, so there’s a lot of responsibility and work can be quite stressful. Notwithstanding that, I work two days a week from home and do the school run three out of five days (that obviously includes getting everything ready for the kids the night before). At weekends, I spend all of my time with the kids (I have hobbies but don’t really make time for them, I may go for a run once every month/two months).

In my life, being a Dad is really one of the most important things to me and in terms of time, most of what I do is either family or work.

Admittedly, I’m not the tidiest person and often after finishing work and doing bath and bedtime each night, I can be tired and so things like doing the kitchen etc aren’t number one on my to do list, or if they are, I can be too tired to do it. We argued about it and so I said we should get a cleaner to help out more, which we did. I recognised that I need to do more around the house and it was upsetting my wife, so I’ve made a conscious effort to do share of everything around the house, tidying, cleaning up the play room after the kids etc and making sure the main parts of the house are tidy in the evening, especially the kitchen. I’ve started to make sure I help with the kids’ washing more too. I’m not a great cook by any means, but I try to do the dinners at least twice a week, if I can’t, I suggest ordering food or similar.

I totally understand the need to vent to friends about things, everyone needs a sounding board. I don’t have many friends and my view is that I should have my wife’s back no matter what (abusive situations excluded) and so for that reason, I don’t criticise my wife either to friends or family. I also wouldn’t criticise her even if I could, because for me, that’s part of the trust that should be in a marriage.

The things my wife has said and shared with her friend have totally crushed me. As a fundamental part of me, I always thought ‘well I’m not perfect, but I love my kids and thought I was doing an okay job of being a Dad’, and hoped I was an okay husband.

Understanding what my wife really thinks of me has hurt me in a way I wasn’t prepared for. I’m also hurt by the fact she was so cruel about me to someone else, and shared personal information about our relationship I thought was just between us.

I know I’m not perfect and have been trying to improve, but understanding her true thoughts about me has upset me in a way I’m struggling with and I’m not entirely sure what to do. It’s so hard knowing my wife has such a low opinion of me.

My wife has apologised and says she still loves me. I’m struggling with trust and general sadness. I continue to do my best to improve.

My feeling now is that I really don’t want to share any of my thoughts or emotions, because I don’t know who they will ultimately be shared with or how, or if they will be mocked or criticised in a group. This isn’t how I want to be with my wife.

Fundamentally, I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to change enough to give her what she wants or needs from a partner, husband and father.

Does this mean anything to anyone else? If you have any thoughts that would be helpful.

Quite a lot to look at there and I'm guessing your wife's point of view might be quite different. My guest question though, is how did you find this out?

First question rather!

I don’t think your wife has said anything particularly hurtful and I also don’t think she broke your confidence. She shared her opinion and to be honest a fairly benign one. I have also been known to shoot the breeze with friends and several have said similar things to me, that say, our husbands might do the dusting if told to dust, but they never themselves see that the dusting needs doing. That kind of thing.

I don’t think your wife said much more than that to be honest, she said you were an average typical father not a super dad, nothing to be upset about. In fact I think you are making far more of this than it needs and I can’t believe you made your wife apologise for chatting with her friends.

Thanks for the feedback!

How did you find out what she was sharing? You've got a lot in here about how devastated you feel but I'm wondering if her trust has been betrayed too becuase I'm suspicious about how you have this info.

In terms of her feelings vs yours - hard truth time. I'm afraid that the vast bulk of us, even those of us with great husbands who are great fathers, are fully aware that as women we do more. We carry the mental load. We do far more of the hard graft and we're far more likely to be the ones juggling it all. I notice you don't say what your wife does - does she work? Whether she does or not, are you conscious of all the things she's doing in the house and for the DC?

Most of the time, we plod along because consciously or unconsciously we're aware that it's more complex than "he doesn't pull his weight" and overall things are good. But sometimes, we need to vent our frustrations to our (female) friends who are the only ones who truly get it.

It sounds like you are trying and have taken on board some of what she's said to you and are trying to change, that's good. But come on, can you not see that this is a process? And that every time you get a bit better - eg doing the kitchen even when you're "tired" (do you think she's NOT tired?)there's probably 50 other things that still aren't being done by you becuase you haven't even noticed them?

As I wife, I honestly think this is just venting to a trusted friend. I often vent to my mom when my husband doesn't do something or says something I don't like but I still love him with all my heart. I am sure she loves you, has she given you a reason to think she doesn't?
Women discuss THE most intimate of things with their closest girlfriends. I have shared secrets with my female friends, I think women understand in a different way to men. I think it's part and parcel of being a girl, in all likelihood, your wife's friend shares very personal stuff about her own relationship with your wife. The probably see no issue in it.
You seem like a sensitive soul, I can tell from your post you are a great dad. Maybe your wife feels a little overwhelmed by all the house chores so you could pitch in a little more maybe ... wishing you the best!

that if she left, I likely would only then realise what she does for me and our household.

She's probably right. Sorry. I have a DH who genuinely does pull his weight, but it's a constant joke that if I was in a coma for 3 months, things would completely fall apart.

I was away for a long weekend with DC1 the other day. I came back and the house was fine overall - DH had tidied up at the end of every day etc - but not one of the day to day little chores that I do, particularly over the weekend, had even been noticed, never mind done, including that it hadn't occurred to him that we would need food for lunchboxes .... And that was 3 days.

I

Its human nature to settle into a status quo, but I suspect you're not aligned in thinking the day to day workload is balanced.

I particularly noticed when you said the kitchen wasn't high on your to do list and you were "too tired".

The difference is that many women* can be equally as tired, but think a step further and realise well it needs doing, so they crack the fuck on.

*I'm a woman, and sometimes leave the kitchen til the next day BUT I live alone, so by leaving it, I'm not leaving it as a job for someone else, or preventing them using the kitchen as a hygienic space by being lazy one evening

It's also quite interesting that you're so upset and betrayed but haven't actually put any thought into whether she has a point at all. You don't want her talking to and confiding in her friends? That's quite disturbing to be honest.

Regardless if whether or not its true to some extent or how you found out she made the comment, I think most women would also be hurt to find out their partner only rated them as an average mother if they felt they were doing their best and had been comparing them to other women in that way.

I believe your wife has a right to confide in her friends, but It would probably be a good idea to have a real conversation where you can agree about the types of things you both feel comfortable and uncomfortable about sharing outside the relationship to avoid the same thing happening again.

Eh surely every wife moans to their friends about their husbands.
I don't think she has said anything out of the ordinary.

You seem rather sensitive and I wonder if that's why she's irritated with you?

I just want to go against the grain here and say I fully understand why that was so upsetting to read, she should never have said someone else's husband was "the dream" and to be honest badmouthing your spouse to your friend is something im really not a fan of - you two should have each others backs and speak to one another when there's an issue.

So I don't really have any advice I just wanted to validate how this has made you feel. If the roles were reversed I think you'd get more sympathy on here..

How did you "find out"?

You should have posted this with the sexes reversed. You’d get good, sympathetic advice

No, they don't! It's disrespectful and I expect the same from my husband.

Don’t take it to heart , OP. Most people like a good moan, it clears the air, you get a bit of sympathy ( in the true meaning of the word) and you feel a bit better for it. I would bet that at least eight out of ten married women have voiced the same complaints to someone at some stage. Most of them would die in a ditch for their husband, though.

I’d be more concerned with how you discovered this. If it was by snooping , well, ‘listeners hear no good of themselves’. If someone told you ( ie the recipient of your wife’s confidence) I would be reevaluating that person’s involvement in her and my life. It’s unpleasant , to say the least, on several fronts.

You said you have a C suite job. At the very least pay for a cleaner 3 hours a week. Doing just that has been the salvation of many relationships.

I think OP has a point. If DH wrote similar things about me I would be gutted. I once did something similar - moaned about my ex to a friend - he found out and was really hurt.

The only caveat is wondering how you found out about these messages & whether you could try and see things from your wife's pov. There's obviously some sort of issue there. If you could try and tackle it from that direction rather than your hurt feelings maybe it might help?

What's the saying - an eavesdropper never heard anything good? Well that applies here too I think.

Haha cross posted @Allthegoodnamesarechosen

Oh dear. Well, eavesdroppers shouldn't expect to hear only good about themselves.

No good will come of feeling sorry for yourself. Yes, of course you are upset, but that doesn't get you anywhere.

My take on what you should do with this:
Imagine your wife was going to be totally unavailable for a year, from - what's a workable timescale - four weeks' time.
You and only you are responsible for the kids and the household. And as a high achiever, you'd want to do the best job, right, not "well, they're not dead...."!

Find out EVERYTHING you'd need to know for this. Plan what you'd do.

If you do this in good faith (and fill any holes in provision you find along the way - e.g. get a cleaner to come in every morning if you're genuinely too tired to clean up at night?) ... once DW feels 100% confident that she could drop dead tomorrow and the ONLY issue would be the DC's bereavement - you may find everything changes for the better.

If someone moaned about negative feedback in their 1-1 you'd tell them - tactfully but clearly - to man up, reflect on it, and step up, no? Same thing.

Does your wife work?

Not doing the kitchen because you’re tired - hmmmm not a good example to choose - it’s hardly heavy duty lifting, most adults are tired by 8 pm at night. Most manage to maintain clean kitchens .

I liked the MN idea of no one sitting down until the work is done - it would be annoying if DW was watching tv whilst you bedded DCs and cleaned.

Dont be daft. Are you honestly telling me that you have never ever said anything about your husband.
I don't believe you

Well, if you are going to spy and read private conversations, beware of what you will find.
I'm assuming your wife also works full time as you seem to say you are doing at least half of chores.
If you do bed and bath every night, does that mean she does the cooking/ kitchen cleaning? On the face of it a fair deal, but for the DC's and yourselves, maybe alternate it so you both have a crack at each others roles rather than having separate routines.
It's not clear, the way you say you spend all your weekend time with your kids, do you mean all your time as a family, or just you and DC's, what is she doing in that case. You do imply that you spend more time with them than she does, which is unusual if that is the case.

Does your wife work and if so what hours.
I think you seem to do quite a lot to be fair.
What else does your wife think you should be doing?

That is so shit. I overheard an ex slagging me off for being a shit gf, shit mum, shit shag and it was much more devastating than it sounds. It left me feeling crap around anyone that he knew because I was wondering "what have they been told about me". It really did feel like a betrayal or breach of trust.
I understand that she was likely having a moan and a vent but that doesn't make it feel any better for you.

I don't really have any advice but I have been there and I know it feels really fucking horrible.
They do say you shouldn't speak to a third party about issues in your relationship if you wouldn't want the other half to hear what you're saying, this is why.
It hurts like fuck.