Poor communication - is it me?

[Moredrama]

DH and I were having a discussion and I was giving my view on something (not something he did, but someone in his family) and he started raising his voice and said to stop having a go at him, I calmly told him that I wasn’t and that I was just talking to him, but he went on a rant and stormed off. (For context, we had been having another discussion prior to this and were just chatting normally).
I went and sat next to him and tried to calmly talk to him, explaining that I wasn’t happy with how he had just blown up, but he just carried on at me.
I told him he was out of order still going on like that when I was trying to talk to him in a calm and respectful way, but he wouldn’t back down and hear me out, he just kept saying that I don’t see what I am doing wrong and it’s me who’s the problem.
He then said this is why he doesn’t tell me things because I just overreact and question him. This really angered me because there’s been a lot of issues over his lack of communication (from small things to very significant things).

Is this right, that it’s actually my fault because I make it hard for him to talk to me because of my “overreactions” (his words)?
I do have a tendency to question things if they don’t stack up, or if I’ve not quite got the full picture to understand a situation, which can often lead to him getting defensive.
Am I doing something wrong without realising it, and if so, how do I change that?

I think you need to accept that you and he are different. He thinks you do have enough communication, you think you don't.

He will always think you're 'going on' when you're having the right level of communication for you. You will always think he's shutting you down when you're having the right level of communication for him.

And that's it. Anything further is just added drama that you don't need.

You're not an idiot for believing things could change; you needed to do this all, because you needed to know you'd tried all the options, to fix it. You're feeling like an idiot for being tenacious in trying to save your marriage. That's not 'idiot', that's 'respectable' and 'valiant'.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Sorry it’s taken some time for me respond, it’s been a rollercoaster.

You've given some really helpful insights, as well as being kind when I feel like a fool.

I have mostly managed to continue with the calm approach since, and if I feel I’m about to get worked up or if he does blow up I say “I’m not doing it like this, I’m going upstairs while we calm down” and I walk away. It’s only worked a couple of times, usually I get more of the same blowing up (or shutting down) when I return.
Every time I feel like we might be making progress, it’s only a matter of days before there’s something else.

The thing is, it could be calm and quiet most of the time if I didn’t say anything or question anything, if I just accept things how they are (him doing what he wants, not communicating, not being a team). But I can’t. So I’m being punished for wanting boundaries and respect, for wanting a marriage of equals. He can’t (or won’t) see it.

I need to figure out how to hold it together now, how to let things go over my head whilst I get in a better position to walk away.
I really don’t want to end my marriage, and I do love him so it’s hard to imagine walking away, but I’m still seeing no signs of him compromising or changing his ways (for more than a day or two) to reduce conflict and it’s having such a bad impact on my health.
As I said I’ve started to walk away if it looks like a conversation is going to become heated, and sometimes I just mirror his day to day behaviour (in terms of being a bit selfish, but I struggle as I’m a caring person and it feels so wrong), I’m just finding it hard to be consistent and not let things get to me. Any tips on how I go about this to relieve some of the stress and anxiety?

My ex was/is uncannily like yours. Honestly, you could have been writing about him, word for word.

I ended up with an autoimmune disease triggered by the stress of walking around on eggshells, doing the difficult work of emotionally regulating another adult (this is what you're doing when you're staying calm and he's escalating and escalating) and the stress of the self-doubt and self-dislike that came from repeating becoming or having to act like a person I didn't like and didn't want to be when his inability or unwillingness to be respectful or fair pushed me past my limits.

What your husband is doing is covert abuse, make no mistake. It's controlling you by way of dismissal, denial, lack of empathy and turning it around to blame his problems on you.

I understand you love him and hope he will change, but that's almost certain not to happen. He's had every chance to change, you've told him endlessly how you feel, and he hasn't changed because he actually doesn't care. I know that is a brutally hard thing to accept. But if he cared and was capable of change, he would have by now.

Leaving was hard for me but I am 1000 x happier than I was before. My sense of self and perspective have returned. I've realised that I never have to be someone I don't like around people who are caring and decent and respectful. And my autoimmune disease has gone into drug-free remission.

Put yourself first.

I’m just finding it hard to be consistent and not let things get to me. Any tips on how I go about this to relieve some of the stress and anxiety

The thing is, trying not to let things get to you when they do get to you is the cause of the anxiety. You are continuing to put yourself in a situation where your feelings aren't 'appropriate', and you're trying to shut the feelings up, rather than go somewhere where the feelings are appropriate.

You don't have your own back. You are not your own supporter. You are your own silencer. Your feelings are signposts. Just like 'fear' is a signpost that says 'Quick, run!', all of your feelings are trying to get you to do something for your own good, and you are trying to ignore the signposts, your natural triggers, and feel good about it. It won't work. If you want to stop feeling anxious, you need to put distance between yourself and your abuser. There is no other way. Trying to stay and cope is like forcing a child to sit with their bully, and expecting them to not be anxious. You would never do that to your child, because it's really mean, but you're doing it to yourself.

I think the fact you carried on and on doesn't help either. Maybe a bit of space and time to regroup then about chat might have defused the situation.

Look, you're flogging a dead horse here. think of all the time, effort and work you have put into saving your marriage and improving your h's communication - what effort has HE put in to change things? None! And now he won't even engage with counselling.

He's abusive, and you shouldn't be doing counselling with an abusive man.

He lacks the self-awareness and the will to change.

I'd ask him and his Dc to leave, then do the Freedom Programme so you can raise your bar for next time.

Relationships are just not meant to be this much hard work!

I would have given it a bit of time, and THEN talked to him about his reaction. You did it straightaway, which was never going to go down well.

Thanks for your replies.

Feeling very flat this morning. Thinking about recent events and what I could have done differently (and what he could have).

I do believe that a lot of his behaviour comes from his upbringing; that he’s had to shut down to block out any negative things coming his way, and that he blows up when he feels that approach doesn’t work.
I thought me approaching things in a calmer way, and wording things so it doesn’t sound like blame but rather just something that needs resolving, would help us to communicate better, but it rarely does.
I thought the counselling would go some way to giving him some techniques to cope better when things need to be dealt with and understand that not everything is an attack, but it didn’t.

Sometimes it seems that he can take a breath and realise that things need to change, and he will ask what he can do to help that, but then I don’t see much action from that. I don’t know if it’s him playing with me or if he genuinely does want to make things better but doesn’t have the ability, and so anything I say just makes him feel helpless.

I know either way it can’t continue. I just don’t know how to deal with it in the meantime whilst I get myself financially ready.

A couple of recent PP’s have said that I needed to give a bit of time and space between discussions. I am not sure if that’s based on my OP or if I'm still not approaching it right? As I have said, I have been walking away and letting things settle.

Who do you think decides whether your approach is 'right'? Which authority are you answering to here? What rules or guidance do you think you're meant to be following?

In short, what do you mean by approaching it 'right'? What does 'right' mean?

You don’t deal with it. If you’re going to leave there’s nothing to discuss. Stop the discussions. Stop explaining anything to him. He knows what he’s doing.

You do not have communication issues. What you have is an abuser who is thriving on the chaos and conflict. And you keep giving him the opportunity to abuse you by trying to discuss his abuse.

This fucker has got you walking on eggshells minding your tone while he rages at you. Take control and stop discussing anything with him.

@Watchkeys I meant as in if I am contributing to the communication issues. If there’s a way I should be trying to address things to get the most productive outcome, rather than letting emotions take over and getting frustrated if things aren’t dealt with straight away.
I can sit here saying he’s the problem (which he definitely is A problem) but what if I am also not doing things right and that’s why it’s so unproductive when things need addressing?

@Frogger8395 You make a good point. I find it hard though, and so I guess what I need to know is how to live with him without letting the day to day things get to me. Because it’s all well and good thinking I’m just biding my time, but I do love him and it’s hard to not feel hurt or frustrated by some of his actions.

I feel so confused and conflicted

I recommend using a journal or this thread to manage your feelings instead of telling him he’s upset you. He knows he’s upsetting you. That’s the whole point. Abusers enjoy causing you pain. They enjoy seeing your pain and hearing about it.

If you document his actions I think it will become clear very quickly he is doing things on purpose. And it will also become very clear that he is using these discussions to abuse you further.

What's the financial situation if you split up? You said it's your house pre-marriage; does he have a property too, or will try and take half of yours? How long have you been married?

Tbh I think he's one of those men who sees his partner as an appliance. As long as you are agreeable and make his life easy, all is sweet. The minutes he is challenged in any way by you, he doesn't like it, his affection is withdrawn and he goes on the attack. I have one of those and I have finally realised he doesn't really see me as a person so he doesn't really care if his actions or words sometimes hurt me.

The thing is, if you're 'contributing to the communication issues' to any major degree, just by being yourself, then you're wasting your time. Some people don't communicate with each other well. There is no 'right' or 'wrong'. Communicating is a 2 person job; if you say something and he thinks you mean something else, then that's down to the 2 of you. What he interprets is equally as important as what you say. If you're doing your best to communicate in the way that you naturally communicate, that's all you need to do. You're not 'at fault' if someone doesn't 'get you', you're just different from them, more emotional a communicator than them, perhaps.

Once again, which authority do you answer to, when deciding if you are 'right' or 'wrong' about things? Apart from the law, who do you think we all answer to, regarding this sort of decision about whether we're doing things 'right'?

It sounds like you are tying yourself in knots to talk to him but he’s still sulking / blowing up. It sounds exhausting tbh…..

It’s very exhausting. It’s just been more of the same since.
We spoke and seemed to make some progress in terms of how we tackle things moving forward, then when it came to a “catch up” chat he dropped another issue in which again is my fault for having a problem with it.

I’m in a state of limbo, desperately wanting it to work so I don’t have to walk out on my marriage, and protecting myself from the chaos and instability of the relationship.

The house was mine pre-marriage and this would be considered a short marriage from other posts I’ve read on MN. However, it doesn’t guarantee he won’t get anything, and I don’t know if him having a young DC (mine is older) will give him more rights. He didn’t/doesn’t have assets.
Given the financial climate I couldn’t afford to buy him out if I had to.

I know I am allowed to be my own person and I don’t have to do things his way, but then with that in mind it could be argued that he shouldn’t have to change either. But the reason for me wanting the change is for the better as he approaches things like a single man (in terms of decisions and finances, not cheating), and when I try to address anything I get nowhere.
I know all of this should have been addressed before we got married but we had discussions about everything, how our marriage would look, etc, and we appeared to be on the same page with the same values, etc.

I’m sick of sounding like a stuck record and being in limbo. I just wish he would sort himself out, or I would stop being so weak and get myself out of this.

I know I am allowed to be my own person and I don’t have to do things his way, but then with that in mind it could be argued that he shouldn’t have to change either.

And that’s how he sees it. He thinks you’re in the wrong and should change.

But you can’t live with being the person he wants you to change into and he doesn’t want to be the person you want him to be.

At some point you’re going to have to accept this reality and make your choices based on that. It’s the wishful thinking that things were or could be different from how they really are that is keeping you in limbo.

Op. I am in an almost identical position. Its heartbreaking because you can see that if they just saw you as they see themselves, as a human being with needs and vulnerabilities and the desire not to be hurt, and had empathy for that and truly loved you, then the relationship could be amazing. The problem is that I think that although this type of person does feel love, they don’t love in the same way we do.
To me love requires a little self sacrifice, compromise and the ability to see how what we do effects others. Unfortunately I think people like our partners have ego’s so fragile that the accountability required to do this would effectively destroy their mental health. This is why they push back and can’t address things. This means we have two choices…to walk away or destroy our own mental health in trying to remain.
I really, really don’t want to walk away, because when its good, its the best thing Ive ever known. Unhappily in my case those good times are just decreasing and I can see that in staying I am ruining my own happiness.
its sad, and awful and heartbreaking. You have my total sympathy. Always a handhold here if you need one.

@Englebertstrousers I’m sorry to hear you’re going through similar. Thank you for the offer of a handhold, same to you 💐

DH has (on and off) been making an effort since but I feel like I can’t let my guard down now.

I was planning to speak to a solicitor this week but I held off, partly because something came up so this wasn’t the priority, partly because I don’t really know if I’m ready to face it.

I look at him and think about our marriage and it feels impossible to imagine us getting divorced. It also scares me how he may react if I do go through with it (financially I mean. I’ve read so many things about men who even seem completely rational blowing up during a split).
What confuses me is that sometimes I wonder if he’s a narcissist but other times I wonder if he just doesn’t have the right coping mechanisms and can’t deal with things, because I see some little changes in other ways so it’s clear he’s heard what I’ve said and is making an effort. I just don’t know

What confuses me is that sometimes I wonder if he’s a narcissist but other times I wonder if he just doesn’t have the right coping mechanisms and can’t deal with things, because I see some little changes in other ways so it’s clear he’s heard what I’ve said and is making an effort.

There’s no conflict between the two. Narcissists are just people with maladaptive coping mechanisms and they occur across a spectrum. Narcissists towards the lower end of the spectrum are capable of some change but fundamentally they have low empathy, low feeling and deeply engrained patterns of putting themselves first (due to a deep sense of entitlement to do so, usually based on the fact that they feel they were deprived of rights earlier in life). So while you may see some change, it’s likely to be pretty limited.

What confuses me is that sometimes I wonder if he’s a narcissist but other times I wonder if he just doesn’t have the right coping mechanisms and can’t deal with things, because I see some little changes in other ways so it’s clear he’s heard what I’ve said and is making an effort. I just don’t know

But why do you need to know? He treats you in a way that makes you unhappy. He is disrespectful to you. Why do you need to psychoanalyse those dealbreaking facets of your relationship? Whatever name you decide to give them (and it really will be just your opinion, with no professional to ever tell you whether you're right or not), they're still relationship-ending ways of treating you.

You're doing what victims of abuse do. You're looking for ways to explain away your abuser's behaviour. You're looking for reasons to let him off the hook.

You have to understand that if he loved and respected you, but could not control his behaviour towards you, he would choose to stay away from you to spare your distress, regardless of the cause of his issues.

I know I am allowed to be my own person and I don’t have to do things his way, but then with that in mind it could be argued that he shouldn’t have to change either

In a healthy relationship, there's no looking at 'who needs to change'. The fact that the concept exists between the two of you at all simply demonstrates incompatibility. It shows that you are different and cannot find mutually beneficial compromise. This isn't about 'how you solve the problem', it's about recognising that problems of this depth signal the end of the relationship.

You're staying because you're scared to leave. Every day you stay will be a day you wish, on reckoning day, that you'd left, to enjoy your own hours and days, without this hanging over you. Take responsibility for your own happiness. Don't wait for other people to change. Assume that people will continue to make you feel the way they make you feel today, and make your decisions based on that, not on a fantasy of what they might turn into if they decided to live their life by your morals and standards. Nobody is going to do that.

Thanks for your replies. You’re right, I know you are. It’s just sad knowing this is what it’s come to.
I let’s hard to accept that someone who seemingly wanted the same things as me, can’t work with me to achieve those things. I met someone who I wanted to marry, which I had those opportunities before and didn’t take them, and I still have love and attraction for him so it sucks that we can’t address the issues and have a happy future. I thought if he could work on some things then it would change how he approaches situations, so there would be less conflict, and then naturally things would be better. I’ve adapted and changed some things for the sake of our marriage, all I asked was that he do the same. I wasn’t trying to force him to be the perfect man, just stop seeing me as his opponent, work with me as his wife and give us a chance to turn things around, which is what he keeps saying he wants to do

OP, you need good legal advice.

You have married a highly abusive bully.

He shouts you down.

Was he hiding this part of him before he married you and moved into your childs home?

I think he is highly controlling and manipulative.

I think you are scared of him.

You have made a mistake marrying him and the longer this goes on the more you have to lose.

This is your childs home and not to be toyed with.

How long are you married?

Get legal advice asap.

Your marriage is negatively affecting your health. You're walking on eggshells round your h - he's emotionally abusive.

I let’s hard to accept that someone who seemingly wanted the same things as me, can’t work with me to achieve those things.

It's not up to you to wonder why this is. It's up to him.

I’ve adapted and changed some things for the sake of our marriage, all I asked was that he do the same. I wasn’t trying to force him to be the perfect man, just stop seeing me as his opponent, work with me as his wife and give us a chance to turn things around, which is what he keeps saying he wants to do.

Actions speak louder than words, though, don't they? He sees you an an opponent - someone he has to get the better of. That's not the basis for a healthy relationship.

He's saying one thing but doing fuck all to change his behaviour. Think of all the time you have wasted thinking about him - 'why does he act like this? What can I do to help him?' How much time has HE spent thinking abotu the impact of HIS behaviour on YOU?

Fuck all, I'd imagine.

You deserve better.

I'd get legal advice ASAP so that you can find out whether your h will be able to claim any of YOUR house in a divorce.