Poor communication - is it me?

[Moredrama]

DH and I were having a discussion and I was giving my view on something (not something he did, but someone in his family) and he started raising his voice and said to stop having a go at him, I calmly told him that I wasn’t and that I was just talking to him, but he went on a rant and stormed off. (For context, we had been having another discussion prior to this and were just chatting normally).
I went and sat next to him and tried to calmly talk to him, explaining that I wasn’t happy with how he had just blown up, but he just carried on at me.
I told him he was out of order still going on like that when I was trying to talk to him in a calm and respectful way, but he wouldn’t back down and hear me out, he just kept saying that I don’t see what I am doing wrong and it’s me who’s the problem.
He then said this is why he doesn’t tell me things because I just overreact and question him. This really angered me because there’s been a lot of issues over his lack of communication (from small things to very significant things).

Is this right, that it’s actually my fault because I make it hard for him to talk to me because of my “overreactions” (his words)?
I do have a tendency to question things if they don’t stack up, or if I’ve not quite got the full picture to understand a situation, which can often lead to him getting defensive.
Am I doing something wrong without realising it, and if so, how do I change that?

Sometimes people do just need time to get over a disagreement and trying to resolve it straightaway doesn't work. Everyone's minds don't work in the same way.

Set me on fire for this but sometimes (some) men just cba to discuss other relatives and what they say and do in the way that ( some) women do.😬

It all seems to be based on who's to blame. Have you asked him what he would like to happen, re resolving this? Have you asked him if he'd like to know what you would like to happen?

Relationships are about relating to each other, and striving to, even when it's hard. They're not about finding out who is at fault so that the other person can say 'Well, it's not my fault!'

Yes I’ve tried to say how does he want to resolve things or tell him how I’d like to resolve things, but all he says is that there’s nothing to resolve and we just have to move on. Which I find it hard to do when he’s blown up at me.
I do reflect on things and when I see that I should have dealt with something differently I apologise, but he just refuses to be accountable for things and says it’s not his fault

So he just dismisses your feelings?

@Watchkeys yes pretty much. He can sometimes show he cares but other times he just shows no care or empathy towards me at all. In his mind he doesn’t want to deal with it and how I feel about that doesn’t seem to matter

Relationships are about relating to each other, and striving to, even when it's hard. They're not about finding out who is at fault so that the other person can say 'Well, it's not my fault!'

I like the way you put this, Watch. I very much live with a 'ARE YOU SAYING IT'S MY FAULT' type. Also a lot of 'why are you raising your voice' accusations when standing up for myself (deliberately not raising my voice, because I know I'll get that thrown at me and that's the end of being taken seriously).

It's the same thing every time and I can no longer be bothered. We barely talk about anything so you have my sympathies OP. It chips away at you. I rarely feel I have anything worth saying to anyone anymore.

Well then you're not dealing with a conflict resolution issue. This is just a symptom; the problem is that he cares about his feelings more than he cares about yours, to the point that it's harming the relationship between the two of you. There isn't really anything you can do about this, it's who he is. You can't make him care more about you any more than he could make you care more about motor racing or computer games. He's just not that bothered if you feel shit, as long as he's not being blamed for doing wrong.

He's basically happy to do anything, including hurt his spouse and break his relationship, to avoid taking responsibility for himself.

He then said this is why he doesn’t tell me things because I just overreact and question him

This is very much like a 5 year old saying 'Well, YOU started it!'

In a healthy relationship, you'd both be saying what needed to be said to communicate your feelings, and then working out a compromise, so that you could both feel better. Neither of you is doing that at the moment, but if you can see the difference between that method, and blame, then you can talk to him about that, as a concept, rather than about any particular disagreement or fall out between you. Might that work? If you told him that what you would like best if you disagreed on something, would be to both openly talk about how it makes you feel, and try to find a way for both of you to feel better?

If you've done it and it didn't work, or if you don't want to do it, you're basically looking at trying to school him into being the right partner for you, which is never a good plan.

Can you leave?

but all he says is that there’s nothing to resolve and we just have to move on

'I don't feel good, and I'd like us to resolve that together if we can. Would you prefer for me to just keep feeling bad, and not talk about it?'

I worry that this will just lead to me having to tip-toe around him all the time for fear of saying the wrong thing because it’s my responsibility to not trigger him rather than us both working through issues together

You are describing his emotional abuse of you. The eggshells, you trying not to "trigger" him. This is not normal or OK in a relationship. Not all men behave like this. He is using shouting and sulking/stonewalling to get you to back down whenever you don't toe the line. You're not "saying it the wrong way" - for him, it's a problem that you dare to say it at all. He is king. You are not queen. If you continue to push him then his behaviour will escalate (I'll bet it already has, hasn't it?).

Watching this with interest as we are going through this now .

I am like you OP , I ask questions and try to dig sometimes unintentionally which make my DH either tell half the truth or gets defensive. Then next time, he doesn't say anything and when I find out , it causes arguments. It's mainly about the things he does . I will try all that has been suggested here

I read this earlier and it made me really tearful, because I know you’re right.

Don’t get me wrong, I do argue with him at times and get really angry, and as a result I feel like I’m the one making mistakes because how can I not like it when he does it but yet I do it myself. I mostly do try to approach things in a calm way, choosing my words carefully in the hope we will have a positive outcome, but he doesn’t match it and after a long time (dripping tap effect) I end up snapping in sheer frustration or having to walk away before I snap.

The “He is king. You are not queen” comment really hit me, because this is how I feel his attitude is

Thanks for all of your replies.
I thought a lot about your feedback and I really tried to adopt some positive techniques.

He was making effort in his own way today, but that way is to act like nothing has happened and I’m still really upset over how he’s handled things and the way he spoke to me. And I told him that.

I know he was annoyed because to him he was making an effort and I wasn’t letting it go, but the name calling really bothers me and I can’t just shrug it off without trying to make him understand why it’s such a big deal, and give him the chance to actually try to make me feel better so we can properly move forward.

I spoke to him calmly, not accusing but saying this is how I feel about the name calling and how he blew up. I said how it’s not productive to not resolve things properly and I’d like to do that so I’m not still upset over it. He said there’s nothing to discuss now. I said “even though I’m upset and I want to resolve things, would you rather me still be upset?” And that did seem to get his attention. So I calmly continued to say how I felt and why, that he knows how I feel about name calling and disagreements not being dealt with properly and I’d like to explore why it is happening. Long story short, he didn’t like what I was saying and it resulted in him raising his voice again, getting defensive and telling me to STFU. I said it wasn’t helpful and he needed to stop it, I was getting wound up at this point but still didn’t raise my voice. He then just switched to not speaking at all, wouldn’t engage or answer me.

I really tried to work with the advice given and keep myself in check. But at the point he refused to answer a simple yes/no question, despite me saying ignoring me is making it harder for us to move forward, I got so frustrated I told him I can’t do it anymore and need to step away from him and the marriage. He said I haven’t given us a chance. I honestly could have cried with how frustrated and hopeless I felt.
I do feel bad that in the end I said I can’t be his therapist, but as his wife I was trying to work through things with him but he wasn’t doing anything to help himself. I also said I didn’t want my DS growing up like him (we don’t have joint DC).
Nothing I’ve tried has worked and I just feel like it’s got to the point where I’ve become horrible.
But I also know that I’ll back down tomorrow because I feel bad.

So sorry to hear OP.

This is sadly why my long term relationship ended. They need to realise themselves there's a problem and without a resolution the relationship will break down. He does care about you as you asking if he'd prefer you stay upset got his attention. BUT his instinctive nature and fear of criticism is a lot stronger, and he sees you as an opponent he must defeat rather than a team mate. Honestly, without therapy it can be impossible to fix.

If you're still determined to try, I would wait until you're both in a really good mood to bring it up. Maybe if you can have a date night, or weekend away - will feel less combative then. But you'll have to make it clear that it is affecting you and your relationship can't last without healthier disagreements. You're willing to compromise but he needs to as well. If he still isn't listening or getting abusive, then a separation is the only option.

Please don't stay with a partner who uses foul language or intimidates you. That is s form of emotional abuse and not good for your son to witness. If you do need to take a break from him to think things over and ask him to as well, could you stay with family for some time?

Thank you. I agree with everything you’ve said.

I have had previous discussions about how he is treating me as an opponent rather than his wife and that I want us to work together to resolve the issues in our marriage. He acknowledges that he needs to do things differently but each time there is a disagreement he deals with it in the same way. It’s really hard because the majority of the issues are brought by him, so when he’s of the mindset that he can do no wrong and he’s the victim of me ‘going on at him’, I can’t get things resolved.
I recognised that my approach wasn’t always helpful and I worked hard to deal with things in a different way. I try to be more patient and understanding but I still get the same raised voices or stonewalling from him.
I don’t know whether in time he will eventually see that I’m being calm and trying to resolve things rather than blame, and he will start to mirror my behaviour, or whether this is just as good as it’s ever going to get (which is how it currently feels).

It’s not really an option for me to leave as it was my house pre-marriage and my DS is in his teens so I can’t just uproot him.
I will wait until DS is at his dads and then try to talk again.

It’s not really an option for me to leave as it was my house pre-marriage and my DS is in his teens so I can’t just uproot him

But if you break up, why can't he leave?

I recognised that my approach wasn’t always helpful

I found it very important to keep in mind, on this point, that nobody deals with abuse by staying cool, calm, collected, and sensible. That's one of the reasons we need to stay away from it; it turns us into people we're not, and that's not good for us. Have a think about whether there's anybody else in your life with whom you use similar 'unhelpful' approaches to disagreements. It's a useful tool in locating the toxin. If you're like it with everyone, then you are the toxin. If you're like it with just one or two people (for many of us it's our partner and a parent, nobody else), then they are the toxin. I'd guess that you're pretty stable and calm during conflict with others, OP, and it's pretty much just him you lose your shit with?

I’ve thought about this a lot. I only really lose it with him, though I can be a bit stressy with others from time to time.
With DH I know he can snap with others, but again I don’t think it’s with everyone all the time. He does have a tendency to really overreact to certain situations (other drivers for example).
So, I’m still sat wondering whether it’s him or me, or a combination of both.

We had what I thought was a really productive chat the other day. I explained that he’s defensive all the time yet I’m his wife and not out to attack him, I’m simply asking questions because we need better communication and I need (or sometimes, want) to know what’s going on. He was more engaged and we had a more open conversation. He seemed to see things from a different perspective.
He apologised again for upsetting me and said he would work on his reactions and try to remember that I’m not accusing him or attacking him.

Then something else came up. Very minor. Just something he hadn’t discussed with me sooner. I said how he hadn’t communicated it to me and that he should have done, he just raised his voice again and went on a rant saying I was accusing him of doing something wrong. I explained that I was talking facts and there was no accusation, it just was what it was.
I reminded him of the conversation we’d had previously about not taking things so defensively (assuming I’m accusing him), and that I just want him to show me respect and communicate with me. He then accused me of setting him up.
Part of me was thinking why did I not just leave it, the other part was thinking if it can go like this over something so small then I’m never going to be able to speak

OP you may be interested in doing the Strengths Development Inventory test. I found it revelatory. It looks at your normal ways of behaving (a bit like a personality test I guess) and then what happens to you when you are in conflict/feel your values are challenged. It may help you realise where you and your DH differ in conflict styles and why you keep going wrong.

For example, my DH when in conflict goes first of all to 'avoid' and wants to leave the problem alone (and physically leave the room if needs be) whilst like you I want a resolution and so will follow him. His last resort in conflict is to move into the argumentative 'attack' mode, when he is pushed into a corner, whereas my last resort in conflict is to go into the withdrawal mode he starts in. You have to pay to do the test properly but maybe worth reading this guide to see the different styles and get a sense of it. Doing this has helped me recognise where we (or everyone I work with, other family etc) differ and why sometimes communication goes awry.

It may not be a silver bullet as sounds like your DH may have other issues going on but it certainly cant hurt to be more attuned to how he wants to receive communication.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.brighterstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/SDI_Interpretive_Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjVzM7A-MP-AhWLTsAKHYuFDL4QFnoECA4QBg&usg=AOvVaw2HXs6hK8rYm8dT3FhJPumA

Argh just double checked that link and it wouldn't work for me - if you Google Strengths Development Inventory it will come up with the core strengths website, you can find details on there. The doc I tried to link to was a download explaining the different types and interpretation of your results.

Honestly its about healthy self awareness. If you dig your heels in about which approach is right you will get nowhere. I think humour and lightheartedness is going to get you further.

Also maybe try upping the positive reinforcements? I'd swiftly turn off someone if I felt attacked.

I’ve thought about this a lot. I only really lose it with him, though I can be a bit stressy with others from time to time.
With DH I know he can snap with others, but again I don’t think it’s with everyone all the time. He does have a tendency to really overreact to certain situations (other drivers for example). So, I’m still sat wondering whether it’s him or me, or a combination of both.

I don't think that's really a way to tell. While there are people who are generally angry/nasty/toxic a lot of the time, abusive people often save their abuse for one or two people, those closest to them. I've thought on this a lot with stbxh, I've struggled to label his behaviour abusive in the past. Thinking about it I came to the conclusion it didn't really matter if I couldn't say definitively he's abusive, because at best our relationship was mutually toxic and that's not a good place for either of us to be. The thing is even if it's mutually toxic you're still the only one willing to work on it and you can't fix this on your own.

FWIW he sounds a lot like my stbxh and I've seen more clearly as time goes on that the problem is him, not me. I tried everything I could think of, I tied myself in knots, I took the blame for everything, I tried so hard to make him understand, to say things the right way, I practiced in my mind trying to say things so he could understand. He, well he didn't care how much he hurt me, or when I was afraid or feeling worthless, he wouldn't compromise, he had to win, there were no misunderstandings, he just didn't care. He'll will always think I'm in the wrong and this is all my fault.

The fact you're willing to accept blame, the fact you're trying so hard to change and to reach him, to help him understand, the fact that you think it's not just him, those things make it more likely it is him and not you. You're the one behaving like a caring person whose invested in the relationship and wants to fix things, he's not.

Op, im watching this theead with a lot of interest, my dp is very, very similar to yours and I am about to start therapy to understand if its actually bordering on being abusive or if its partly my own issues that are the problem. I figure that either way I will learn something and if its partly me then I can try and change and whatever the outcome then I’ll have some tools to help in any future relationship if I need to leave. Is therapy an option for you?

You’ve had some great advice on here. I know how exhausting and miserable this type of conflict is, I hope that it works out for you, whatever you need to do to find peace.

Well, unsurprisingly, I’m back with more of the same issues.

DH finally agreed to counselling but it’s not going well. He speaks during the sessions but at home nothing has changed. He doesn’t do any of the tasks the counsellor sets for us either.
At this point I may as well bang my head against the wall and save my money.

He consistently says that he wants me and that he wants us to sort things out and get where we need to be, but he’s doing nothing to help that along.

Most recently, I’ve had the same discussion with him numerous times in the space of a couple of days because of his lack of communication with me (but he’s been able to make arrangements with others and not discuss with me). His view is I’m going on and he’s done nothing wrong.
When I say it’s disrespectful and that despite him saying sorry he then did it another couple of times in quick succession, he says he’s done nothing wrong and I’m causing issues over nothing.
I told him I don’t see how we can resolve our issues and have a happy marriage when I can’t even get a basic level of communication or respect from him.

So now I feel like it’s just a waiting game until I’m emotionally and financially ready to leave because it’s actually making me ill and I know I can’t live the rest of my life in this dynamic.
I feel like such a fool to have actually believed that he wanted things to change.

I hope the previous responders have had a better few months than me and are seeing some progress

Sorey my reply has ended up longer than expected!!

He sounds exactly how my partner used to be. Although when my partner was calm he was able to apologise, admit where he was wrong and deal with the problem but it's like he had to explode at me first every single time before he could do things the reasonable way. One thing he always said to me was that he felt like I was attacking him (verbally). I wasn't, I was just asking questions or trying to discuss a problem calmly and quietly but to him, me raising a problem in any way was an attack on him.

Thankfully he started counselling, they made him take an anger management course before they would start his sessions and that helped a lot. So did the counselling but within a month of the sessions ending it all started again. Me kicking him out and not backing down as easily as I always have done gave him the shock of his life and made him realise just how sick i was of his behaviour and that I was no longer willing to keep tolerating it. I had become a door mat to him and enabled his behaviour towards me as he knew he didn't have to try hard to keep himself calm as I'd still be there mo matter how far he went woth loosing his shit, so he got to the point of not evan trying to stay calm becasue in his head he didn't need to. I was still going to be there and past situations had given him that proof. When I finally had enough and wasn't there anymore that was a big wake up call for him. He relaised then that he'd pushed me to far and I wouldn't stick it out forever like he thought I would In his head.

We are now back together and have been doing brilliantly. We've gone from him exploding at least once a week to nothing at all. But most importantly he has realised that he couldn't stop his behaviour On his own. He spent weeks with my help calling different places that offer help with mental health. It caused alot of stress due to the lack of call backs and how difficult it seemed to access help when he desperately wanted it but we got somewhere in the end and he is now under the community mental health team who have given him an explanation and a diagnosis for his behaviour. He is now working hard to correct it and is taking all the appointments and help offered to him because he knows it's his behaviour that's the problem and it's his behaviour that was destroying us. It took him a long time to get here though and he was like your husband at one point where he refused to take accountability and i was the problem. I put up with it for years and i can tell you now all that did was condone his behaviour and made him more comfortable with the explosions so the frequency and intensity upped over time. Based off my experience I would say your husband will not change and seek proper help until you give him a wake up call and stop accepting the abuse. He knows he can do it and get away with it so he's not evan trying to control it let alone engage In help. That will not change unless you do something to make it change. Or give up completely and throw him out regardless of what he does.

Either way, please do not keep putting up with this, I know the toll it takes when you are having your own mental health battered by someone else. It will only get worse for you if you keep accepting this

OK. The thing that jumped out at me was that, when he moved away from you, you followed him and tried to 'talk calmly' to him about what he'd done wrong.

Him moving away was a sign that he needed space - physically, mentally, emotionally whatever. If you're someone who needs that and needs time to process how you're feeling, it can feel quite claustrophobic and frustrating to have someone ignore that and follow you to talk about it calmly. Because calm isn't how you're feeling.

I wouldn't like the way he behaved/responded either but I think your way of dealing with it is probably escalating the situation for him.

It's not about tip toeing around him but, if you want a proper conversation about something, then you probably need to give him time to calm down before approaching it.

"Based off my experience I would say your husband will not change and seek proper help until you give him a wake up call and stop accepting the abuse. He knows he can do it and get away with it so he's not evan trying to control it let alone engage In help. That will not change unless you do something to make it change. Or give up completely and throw him out regardless of what he does."
Ilikejamtarts I hope for your sake he's done abusing you, but this is really messed up thinking and blaming the victim for getting abused. It's not her responsibility to find a way to make him stop. He like your partner is responsible for his behaviour. He should care that he is harming OP, your partner should have cared he was harming you. That should have mattered to him. Someone reacting to an ultimatum, that's them caring about how their behaviour effecta themselves it's still all about them and their needs.