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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Sister - deliberate behaviour or unintentional?

89 replies

yogaoga · 14/04/2023 21:39

Sticky situation with sibling and can’t see the wood for the trees here so appreciate some clarity

The routine goes, she is unkind in some way. Will list examples as think it’s relevant and should avoid drip feeding

  • Throwing chocolate coins at me over and over (when I challenged, I was laughed at and told to stop being boring)
  • Impolite to DH; ignoring him, talking over him, laughing and loudly shouting ANYWAY… when he begins to speak at family events. Other people have noticed. I asked over a coffee if she didn’t like him and she deflected it and said I look for ways to demonise her and confirm my false beliefs that she is a mean person, and claimed to like him
  • Offering to walk her two dogs to do them a favour when she was talking about a busy day upcoming, was told they’d rather pay someone and know they’re in safe hands on a walk
  • Caught a cold type virus one winter when pregnant and implied I had given her it because I work with children (?) and had met her for a coffee before I had symptoms - this was a disgrace because she was vulnerable
  • Stonewalling after my engagement because she didn’t find out first and she deserves to have a sister who prioritises her
  • Claims texting me is ‘compromising her communication boundary’ because I am apparently so prone to misinterpreting her tone and intentions.

There are many, many more examples similar to this and I know it’s fundamentally wrong and foul treatment. It doesn’t stop there though. One of the above will happen, I will quietly take a break from her without announcing it, then she will come running back after a few days or sometimes weeks to say something along the lines of

‘I care about you so much even though you think I’m intense/nasty, I really love you, you numpty! I’m not the wicked witch you think I am! I’ve always wanted to get on well with you and that will never change but once again things are strained and I can’t have this level of toxicity in my life. I care so much about fixing this mess with you that I’m giving up time I could be spending with the kids’

It has nearly come between me and my parents over the years, they can see the situation more clearly now but seem reluctant to confront it because they’re worried she will stop them seeing their grandkids. DM says she thinks she has low self esteem so calling it out will just make her hate herself even more, but has also expressed it’s not reasonable to expect me to continue to be the bigger person. Have a brother on the scene but he lives overseas

So, my original question: I am really curious to know if there is any chance, in your opinion, she thinks there is no problem with her behaviour / is unaware of the harm she’s causing? Maybe it’s a mental illness? DH thinks it’s not and that she is just proving herself to not be very nice. Also sought opinion from trusted friend, as well as relative of DHs who both think to just step well away.

What do you think?

OP posts:
Totalwasteofpaper · 15/04/2023 10:08

Youve had good advice here already.
Particularly about putting her and your parents on an information diet...
I found this v successful it takes a few years but eventually thry have no relevant info on you so it keeps evetything nice and bland.

The only extra tip i would add is what i call the dilutable effect. Ensure if you have to see her its in a large group setting (family bbq etc) invite your kids / her kids / your parents / whoever byt avoid 1 on 1 time.

ScabbyHorse · 15/04/2023 10:13

Sounds seriously lacking in empathy. Protect yourself but also remember she hasn't got the capacity to be what you wish she was.

Original poster
yogaoga · 15/04/2023 10:13

Mamapiggywig · 15/04/2023 09:26

It’s totally on purpose and she is totally defaulting to her DARVO as the other poster said. Go low contact or no contact. These people get away with horrible things as no one wants to confront them. If she says “you think I’m nasty” I would reply “that’s because you are, and actually I think you are well aware of it” the. End the conversation and break away. Just because you are blood relatives doesn’t mean you have to put up with crap. You would not take this from a mate.

Thank you after reading about DARVO it’s crazy how I can actually see that pattern applying to a lot of the examples. You’re right. Wouldn’t have it from a mate. I feel somewhat obliged because of my parents but they do see it and have voiced they know it’s not reasonable to expect I am constantly going to be the bigger person

OP posts:
billy1966 · 15/04/2023 10:13

I think it is wise to do what suits the individual best.

Some find NC works for them and they completely disengage.

However for others the drama isn't worth it, so very LC makes sense.

I know a few who won't have the offender in their home, but will pass them off like some distant relative they occasionally run into at weddings/funerals.

Another friends husband was happy to be the fall guy in not tolerating a rude difficult sister.
Funnily enough her parents found that more acceptable than her no longer tolerating the rudeness.

Figure our what works for you.

You can't change them, thats for sure.

Original poster
yogaoga · 15/04/2023 10:14

ScabbyHorse · 15/04/2023 10:13

Sounds seriously lacking in empathy. Protect yourself but also remember she hasn't got the capacity to be what you wish she was.

Do you think? Even though she comes out with ‘I care so much about you’

OP posts:
Original poster
yogaoga · 15/04/2023 10:18

@billy1966 never thought of that re DH, but it’s kind of smart

OP posts:
billy1966 · 15/04/2023 10:35

Bottom line, suit yourself.

I certainly wouldn't want my children around some so rude to their parents, and for them to witness us sucking it up to keep the peace.

The throwing coins IS shocking.

Also getting up and leaving when any further poor behaviour occurs is a good tactic.

Say nothing but pack up and leave.

Can be very effective.

Leave her to the atmosphere SHE has created.

ScabbyHorse · 15/04/2023 10:37

@yogaoga yes, you can care about someone without being able to empathise with them. She doesn't seem very caring at all actually. Just because she says she cares, doesn't mean she really cares. Look at her actions more than her words.

She sounds jealous and insecure. She has low self esteem and is projecting onto you. It is important you stand strong in your power.

TheMarsian · 15/04/2023 11:55

I’m assuming she doesn’t act that way towards her friends or at work?
Its reserved to you/your DH/specific relatives?

In which case you know. It’s not a PD etc… She knows what she is doing abd she is abusive

Original poster
yogaoga · 15/04/2023 12:09

TheMarsian · 15/04/2023 11:55

I’m assuming she doesn’t act that way towards her friends or at work?
Its reserved to you/your DH/specific relatives?

In which case you know. It’s not a PD etc… She knows what she is doing abd she is abusive

Hm difficult one, no she doesn’t act that way with her friends but she has left friends behind for some interesting reasons such as a friend didn’t accept one of my sisters offers of help so she cut them off, or they expressed a different opinion and she didn’t like it so she removed them as a friend social media
She does not like her in laws and treats both SILs like she does me, but claims they are arrogant and the problem.

OP posts:
Original poster
yogaoga · 15/04/2023 13:26

@AttilaTheMeerkat rhank you for this. I should listen to DH more

OP posts:
Restinggoddess · 15/04/2023 18:30

So many common threads to her behaviour and it’s never her fault 🤔

when she points the finger at someone, she is pointing three back at herself

reduce your contact with her and live your life free if this rubbish

Kidsfortea · 15/04/2023 19:02

yogaoga · 14/04/2023 21:39

Sticky situation with sibling and can’t see the wood for the trees here so appreciate some clarity

The routine goes, she is unkind in some way. Will list examples as think it’s relevant and should avoid drip feeding

  • Throwing chocolate coins at me over and over (when I challenged, I was laughed at and told to stop being boring)
  • Impolite to DH; ignoring him, talking over him, laughing and loudly shouting ANYWAY… when he begins to speak at family events. Other people have noticed. I asked over a coffee if she didn’t like him and she deflected it and said I look for ways to demonise her and confirm my false beliefs that she is a mean person, and claimed to like him
  • Offering to walk her two dogs to do them a favour when she was talking about a busy day upcoming, was told they’d rather pay someone and know they’re in safe hands on a walk
  • Caught a cold type virus one winter when pregnant and implied I had given her it because I work with children (?) and had met her for a coffee before I had symptoms - this was a disgrace because she was vulnerable
  • Stonewalling after my engagement because she didn’t find out first and she deserves to have a sister who prioritises her
  • Claims texting me is ‘compromising her communication boundary’ because I am apparently so prone to misinterpreting her tone and intentions.

There are many, many more examples similar to this and I know it’s fundamentally wrong and foul treatment. It doesn’t stop there though. One of the above will happen, I will quietly take a break from her without announcing it, then she will come running back after a few days or sometimes weeks to say something along the lines of

‘I care about you so much even though you think I’m intense/nasty, I really love you, you numpty! I’m not the wicked witch you think I am! I’ve always wanted to get on well with you and that will never change but once again things are strained and I can’t have this level of toxicity in my life. I care so much about fixing this mess with you that I’m giving up time I could be spending with the kids’

It has nearly come between me and my parents over the years, they can see the situation more clearly now but seem reluctant to confront it because they’re worried she will stop them seeing their grandkids. DM says she thinks she has low self esteem so calling it out will just make her hate herself even more, but has also expressed it’s not reasonable to expect me to continue to be the bigger person. Have a brother on the scene but he lives overseas

So, my original question: I am really curious to know if there is any chance, in your opinion, she thinks there is no problem with her behaviour / is unaware of the harm she’s causing? Maybe it’s a mental illness? DH thinks it’s not and that she is just proving herself to not be very nice. Also sought opinion from trusted friend, as well as relative of DHs who both think to just step well away.

What do you think?

My daughter behaves exactly the same. She only contacts me when she needs something from me 😢

mbosnz · 15/04/2023 19:16

I have a sister that I refuse to have any contact with outside of family get-togethers, because she is quick to hurt, and even quicker to take hurt. My family know that God help anyone that gives her either my phone number or my email. I will not friend her on facebook.

At the last family get-together, she got to the point of baring her teeth at me, and getting very agressive because I said something she took offense to (along the lines of 'oh bless' - I've been over here so long I've picked up the lingo, lol), and I just turned around and said, 'oh, we've got to that point in the night have we', gathered up the kids and left.

It's really hard to dish it out when people refuse to stick around to take it.

billy1966 · 15/04/2023 19:31

@mbosnz perfect way to deal with it.

Leaving her to her behaviour.

mbosnz · 15/04/2023 20:08

Thank you @billy1966 I really appreciate that.

Ooolaaaala · 16/04/2023 01:24

She is dysfunctional and emotionally dysregulated.

She’s triggered by you and her attack behaviours are reactive because she feels insecure, under threat and is actively hostile and on high alert to you.

She has poor impulse control and can’t regulate her insecurities or jealous urges so just lashes out.

She knows what she is doing - she is belittling you. She needs to put you down to keep her own fragile and immature ego afloat.

None of this is your doing.

Emotionally detach in your head.

Grey rock.

Don’t get drawn into either the hostility or the fake niceness when she chooses to reel you back into punching distance.

Do anything and everything to emotionally protect yourself. Manage her. Very LC.

Give her zero emotional fuel - no anger no niceness - just detached, minimum info indifference. Don’t let her see she affects you - except to calmly and cooly physically move away when she starts.

You asked repeatedly does she know what’s she’s doing. 1000% she does.

Ishouldbeoutside · 16/04/2023 03:51

I don’t agree that people who are emotionally dysregulated always know what they are doing. I think it’s a defence mechanism for the reasons you state, but often not in conscious control. It’s like a knee jerk reaction. I have someone in the family like this. It’s a cause for great unhappiness that our relationship is so poor on both sides, but she seems unable to change her defensive behaviour which is really very sad. Lack of self esteem is the root cause I think.

SoyMarina · 16/04/2023 09:29

In my sister’s case it is low self esteem.
She is disappointed with how her life has turned out yet unable to improve things for herself due to being unable to control her temper.
She is stuck in a vicious cycle.
But I’m am sick of being her punch bag.
She is unable to say sorry but expects apologies.
She lost another friend recently due to her snapping and rude behaviour .
The friend finally had enough and stoped contacting her.
She told me about this but then, said “anyway she needs to apologise to me”!!
There is simply no point in trying to get her to see the reality of the situation as self delusion is her armour.

BringItOnxxx · 16/04/2023 09:35

She keeps on upsetting you, if she was a decent person she would not want to upset you. You can go low contact with her without telling her. Just don't give her any headspace, don't contact and don't initiate anything ever. This worked with my relative. She eventually realised that she would have to treat me better and we have a better relationship. But it took me to step away first.

billy1966 · 16/04/2023 10:22

Ooolaaaala · 16/04/2023 01:24

She is dysfunctional and emotionally dysregulated.

She’s triggered by you and her attack behaviours are reactive because she feels insecure, under threat and is actively hostile and on high alert to you.

She has poor impulse control and can’t regulate her insecurities or jealous urges so just lashes out.

She knows what she is doing - she is belittling you. She needs to put you down to keep her own fragile and immature ego afloat.

None of this is your doing.

Emotionally detach in your head.

Grey rock.

Don’t get drawn into either the hostility or the fake niceness when she chooses to reel you back into punching distance.

Do anything and everything to emotionally protect yourself. Manage her. Very LC.

Give her zero emotional fuel - no anger no niceness - just detached, minimum info indifference. Don’t let her see she affects you - except to calmly and cooly physically move away when she starts.

You asked repeatedly does she know what’s she’s doing. 1000% she does.

Agree with this.

That's why @mbosnzmbosnz's' is the perfect response in a very LC scenario.

Removing oneself from a shared space.

Irrespective of the reasoning for the behaviour, none of us has any obligation to accept mistreatment from anyone.

Family or friend.

They behave in a way that offends you, you have the absolute choice to not engage with them further.

None of us owe family or friends that treat us with disrespect, a relationship.

This is an absolute that I believe in life.

Life is simply too short to spend decades bent out of shape trying to navigate a toxic relationship where you are used as an emotional punching bag for them.

I couldn't care less what acronym they fly under.

Not my problem!

Original poster
yogaoga · 16/04/2023 15:12

Ooolaaaala · 16/04/2023 01:24

She is dysfunctional and emotionally dysregulated.

She’s triggered by you and her attack behaviours are reactive because she feels insecure, under threat and is actively hostile and on high alert to you.

She has poor impulse control and can’t regulate her insecurities or jealous urges so just lashes out.

She knows what she is doing - she is belittling you. She needs to put you down to keep her own fragile and immature ego afloat.

None of this is your doing.

Emotionally detach in your head.

Grey rock.

Don’t get drawn into either the hostility or the fake niceness when she chooses to reel you back into punching distance.

Do anything and everything to emotionally protect yourself. Manage her. Very LC.

Give her zero emotional fuel - no anger no niceness - just detached, minimum info indifference. Don’t let her see she affects you - except to calmly and cooly physically move away when she starts.

You asked repeatedly does she know what’s she’s doing. 1000% she does.

Thank you x

OP posts:
Original poster
yogaoga · 17/04/2023 21:04

Hello little update from me

Against my better judgement I called her and hoped she was feeling better as she’s been under the weather. She was very cold over the phone. This surprised me as she had basically begged me to call her for weeks saying texting me was compromising her own boundary as she doesn’t want to risk texting me as I misinterpret her tone

She told me she thinks any contact I make is always on my terms therefore if I do meet her she won’t be bringing little one, she’s going to need to think twice before she ‘reintroduces’ baby to me. This is weaponising them right?!

OP posts:
Ishouldbeoutside · 17/04/2023 21:26

Words like weaponising and gaslighting are never helpful. Not in my view anyway. I would try and cut down the amount of headspace you are giving her. Be polite, engage minimally and give her nothing to beat you with.

Moidershewrote · 17/04/2023 22:00

If you want this to stop, YOU need to stop engaging and tiptoeing around her behaviour - otherwise you’re just enabling it to a certain extent.

Your eyes have been opened - so why keep going back for more?

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