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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Would you accept this in a relationship?

117 replies

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 07:55

If you know your partner had suffered severe childhood abuse and trauma - would you accept aspects of their personality that were shaped due to this and are negative traits ?

Therapy is ongoing and there’s full awareness of everything and an huge effort is being made but it’s not ideal. Is this a case where the person who has been abused should not be in a relationship until they are ‘better’ (what if that never full happens ?)

The issues are :
Attachment issues / fear of abandonment (leading to jealousy)
control issues

OP posts:
Antiquiteas · 04/04/2023 15:23

I wouldn’t accept that behaviour from anyone, I don’t care what the excuses are.

You expose kids to that behaviour and it perpetuates the original abuse/trauma.

They need to sort themselves out alone, and not destroy the lives of others while they do it.

Radi0 · 04/04/2023 17:09

On paper my DH should be very messed up and have all sorts of issues. He is the kindest man, best dad etc. he was abused all his childhood. Please don't dismiss people because of what they've been through

GreyCarpet · 04/04/2023 18:36

Radi0 · 04/04/2023 17:09

On paper my DH should be very messed up and have all sorts of issues. He is the kindest man, best dad etc. he was abused all his childhood. Please don't dismiss people because of what they've been through

Except the OP's husband isnt the kindest man or the best dad 🙄

No one is saying that people should write off those with trauma but they are saying it isn't an excuse to abuse your wife/family.

How could you have missed that??

WheelsUp · 04/04/2023 18:43

*Even without meaning to, you staying is enabling - *

Very wise words which are sadly true. By staying, you are saying that the behavior is not that bad and therefore he has less incentive to try harder.

Kanaloa · 04/04/2023 18:49

No, I absolutely wouldn’t accept it. I had an awful childhood and adolescence. It affects me in many ways to this day. That doesn’t give me the right to ensure DH has a horrible adulthood. People are great at saying ‘but if the person is doing abc’ or ‘if they suffered through xyz.’ It doesn’t matter how he feels, what happened to him, or what he says. It matters about you. It’s not ‘he has jealousy issues and control issues’ it’s ‘I am being controlled and suffering jealousy backlash from my partner.’ It’s unacceptable to be unhappy for all your life to possibly make someone else a bit happier.

Original poster
Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 19:00

Is the general idea then that people who had been abused and damaged because of that should have self awareness and only enter into a relationship if and when they are recovered ?

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 04/04/2023 19:19

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 19:00

Is the general idea then that people who had been abused and damaged because of that should have self awareness and only enter into a relationship if and when they are recovered ?

No. The general idea is that each person prioritises their own self. You don’t have control over whether people who are damaged by abuse decide to enter into relationships. You have control over whether that relationship is with you.

For what it’s worth, there isn’t really ‘recovery’ for the damage from abuse. That damage can affect someone in many ways - many of us are not abusive to others in turn. The issue here is not the abuse he suffered, it’s the abuse he is doing.

Eyerollcentral · 04/04/2023 19:31

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 19:00

Is the general idea then that people who had been abused and damaged because of that should have self awareness and only enter into a relationship if and when they are recovered ?

As a survivor myself I just try and not be a dick to others. As with anyone else regardless of their history if you can’t treat your partner with kindness and respect you shouldn’t be in a relationship. You need to focus on your own issues OP, why were you so determined to get in to a relationship with someone who told you they had real issues?

Hungryfrogs23 · 04/04/2023 19:39

@Wouldyouaccept Not at all, but that having issues doesn't absolve you or give you a free pass to treat others poorly, however hard you are trying. Regardless of the reason why, if you can't treat someone else well and fairly, then no, you shouldn't be in a relationship. But you can't control how someone else chooses to behave, only whether you tolerate it or not and whether you subject your children to it or not. As a PP said, the issue isn't the original abuse, it is the continued abuse he is now causing to others. Yes, if his original abuse never happened he may not ever have behaved like that, but it did. You can't change that. But you can choose not to accept it. I work with survivors and many do go on to be part of healthy, happy relationships, even where they are still recovering themselves. What we think might be hard to control, but how we behave and treat others is always a choice.

WheelsUp · 04/04/2023 19:49

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 19:00

Is the general idea then that people who had been abused and damaged because of that should have self awareness and only enter into a relationship if and when they are recovered ?

The person dating needs to realize that they can't change or help cure their partner. If they are dating someone who's say quick to anger, they will always be quick to anger even though they have happy moments in between.

The person who went through the trauma probably can't get into a relationship in the conventional way. Too many factors like how the trauma affects their behaviour. My sister and I went through trauma and ended up dealing with it in the opposite way. She's married but doesn't have kids. I have kids but am not attached to a romantic partner. We have good relationships with our spouse/children but can not have both. Shielding our loved one(s) from our past is the only way to end the cycle of abuse and that takes a lot of energy so not spreading ourselves too thin works for us.

The person with the trauma can be in a relationship but they may not be able to progress and maintain things in a conventional
way so they need to be honest and creative with what works. They can't expect the other person to tolerate or overlook bad behaviour and certainly not cure it. Change and understanding takes years and isn't guaranteed plus it's really hard.

Snugglemonkey · 04/04/2023 20:00

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 08:20

But if you entered the relationship fully accepting the issues but expecting them to get better then should you stay ? This is what I’m not sure about. I can see the effort made and the frustration of wanting to not behave a certain way. This is why it’s so hard

Show quote history

I would never enter a relationship like this. I am a therapist. I would insist on the work being done and the improvements made pre relationship. Partly because actually, often a person needs to be single to do the work. Relationships muddy things. It is a much better idea to be single to heal.

The presence of unacceptable behaviours indicates that this person should not be in a relationship.

Snugglemonkey · 04/04/2023 20:03

MaireadMcSweeney · 04/04/2023 08:34

He can control his emotional abuse so it only affects you and not the children?
Do you see what you just wrote?

Show quote history

Indeed. This is stated as a good thing, when it actually makes the situation worse.

Snugglemonkey · 04/04/2023 20:12

Radi0 · 04/04/2023 17:09

On paper my DH should be very messed up and have all sorts of issues. He is the kindest man, best dad etc. he was abused all his childhood. Please don't dismiss people because of what they've been through

People should not be dismissed for what they have been through. Their actions are something else though. They should be dismissed for poor actions.

GreyCarpet · 04/04/2023 20:14

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 19:00

Is the general idea then that people who had been abused and damaged because of that should have self awareness and only enter into a relationship if and when they are recovered ?

Not necessarily 'recovered'. I will never 'recover' because there wasn't ever a me before the abuse to return to. If that makes sense.

But it is our responsibility to not in turn abuse anyone else.

It's our responsibility to manage our own feelings rather than expecting others to by controlling or restricting or accusing or threatening them so that they don't trigger us in the first place.

Original poster
Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 20:18

I’m going to try and talk about it and see if we can go to couples counselling and for me to go to separate counselling alone.

OP posts:
housemaus · 04/04/2023 20:19

Incredibly hard. Without being too specific, I have experience in this. In my case, the trauma-related behaviour doesn't relate to me or directly affect me - it's just very, very, very hard to see. I don't think I'd have stayed if it did affect me, as much as the thought breaks my heart because I know they'd not be doing it 'on purpose' and I know the (horrific, traumatic, sickening) reason they are the way they are. A PPs analogy about the lion is a good one: at some point, you're just putting yourself in (emotional) harm's way, even if the reason it's happening makes perfect sense and isn't their fault.

MrsTerryPratchett · 04/04/2023 20:24

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 19:00

Is the general idea then that people who had been abused and damaged because of that should have self awareness and only enter into a relationship if and when they are recovered ?

The choices are:

Be single
Be in a relationship with someone whose trauma fits with yours
Be in a relationship with someone who will ultimately leave (because they are healthy)
Some kind of FWB or similar where the emotional side of things is not really present

There may be people with no issues who want to be a relationship with a controlling and jealous partner and are so loving and forgiving and have such great boundaries that it doesn't affect them. I suspect these unicorns are few and far between. And most of them are actually people playing out childhood scripts.

The issue with being in a relationship with someone whose trauma fits with yours is that no one is getting well. You are co-dependent and loving it.

No one is entitled to a relationship, particularly one where you are abusing the other person.

CombatBarbie · 04/04/2023 20:25

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 08:20

But if you entered the relationship fully accepting the issues but expecting them to get better then should you stay ? This is what I’m not sure about. I can see the effort made and the frustration of wanting to not behave a certain way. This is why it’s so hard

Show quote history

You can see the effort to not behave a certain way this really sticks out to me, a person's history does not control their actions today. Actions are premeditated choices.

Many a time on here is said, if you have MH or autism/asd/aspergers etc it is no excuse for bad behaviour.

I. E if I'm getting stressed I can choose to shout and scream to whoevers closest or I can remove myself from the situation and calm down.

It is possible to do the therapy in an established relationship, I do, but I am very aware of my own behaviours, moods, triggers which I manage.

TinyKittenPaw · 04/04/2023 20:30

No i wouldn’t stay. If it helps suggest a trial separation while he focuses his efforts on working through therapy and then a fresh and gradual new start if there are significant changes. I speak from experience when i gently suggest that you can’t rule out an impact on your children of you staying. Some aspects of controlling behaviour are recognised as abuse. There does have to be some self protection even when you have enormous amounts of empathy for the person you are with.

TwoTwitTuTu · 04/04/2023 20:32

TourmalineGiraffe · 04/04/2023 10:50

Seconding the advice about not doing couples therapy.

I did do this with my partner and I was very, very lucky, the counsellor saw the dynamic then asked to see me alone.
The counsellor gave me the higher authority help to give myself permission to walk away. I owe her so much.
However, in general, couples therapy can be more damaging when dealing with an abusive dynamic.

I know this probably seems like a strange question, but can I ask, what did the counsellor say that gave you the permission to walk away? I am in this exact situation currently and have had two individual sessions requested by the counsellor. She hasn't actually told me I should leave. Did yours actually tell you to leave the relationship? I'm just trying to understand my own situation and what a couples counsellor is likely to say in this type of situation.

iamenough2023 · 04/04/2023 20:35

A lot of us stay in abusive relationships because we feel we have to. We do not! You do not owe anyone anything.

dotdotdotdash · 04/04/2023 20:38

I haven't read the whole thread, but I came on to recommend the Crappy Childhood Fairy, who has a simple writing and meditation method. Therapy isn't proven as successful in treating childhood trauma.

namechange5575 · 04/04/2023 20:38

I think it might only be in a relationship that you become aware that you are behaving in ways that are problematic to your partner. And I can see that it might take a few goes round before a person can conclude that they are causing the issue, rather than it being a feature of a particular relationship.

Can your partner separate his feelings (huge distress, anxiety, self loathing etc) from his actions / behaviours (checking up on you, continual reassurance seeking)? Can he recognise that while feelings drive the behaviour, that doesn't make it ok to do the behaviours? Can he accept that the behaviours only temporarily help his feelings, and cause harm to you? And therefore that he may need to stop them and tolerate an increase in negative feelings? Is he on board with that? He may consider that it is easier to be apart than suffer the constant anticipation of the loss of you.

Moser85 · 04/04/2023 20:46

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 08:23

Is there any way to salvage this ?

more therapy ? (It’s been trauma counselling and separate CBT) maybe couples therapy ?

Or is this only going to fail at some point

Talk therapy doesn't work for many people.
The trauma response happens in the body so it's not as simple as thinking yourself out of it.

He could try body-focused therapies.

Maybe EMDR could be worth a try or there's a newer version called Accelerated resolution therapy but it might be harder to find a therapist for that

Or maybe Internal family systems therapy (which is another talk therapy could help). I don't know much about it but have seen it recommended on here.

Eyerollcentral · 04/04/2023 20:46

Wouldyouaccept · 04/04/2023 20:18

I’m going to try and talk about it and see if we can go to couples counselling and for me to go to separate counselling alone.

You need to go for counselling on your own first