Mother/son enmeshment

[Indiechi]

I need as many opinions as possible on this as it is massively affecting my marriage - it’s along one but I need to set the context.

A bit of background; DH is an only child. He went to private school and hols/free time worked with his parents. He was brought up like a mini adult, given a car and taught to drive at 12, learnt electrics/building/pipe work etc.

Fast forward to uni, he went home to his parents every weekend instead of making friends/socialising with peers.

When we got together I already had 4 children from a previous relationship. His mother expected him to call without fail every day. One day, early in the relationship, he was at my house and the kids were playing in the background, his mother asked him why they were laughing at her and put the phone down on him. He then called her relentlessly til she answered. 🚩

Other things happened along the way but I just kind of overlooked them as them being close, one being that she told him explicitly about her gynaecology appointment/issues - he is a nurse but seriously, tmi. 🚩

Fast forward to more recent events. He is 43 and we have been married for 8 years. Last year dh’s father died so we spent a lot of time at the house. She has an enlarged, framed picture of him sitting in bed, shirtless, which she picked up in front of me and the kids (teens) kisses and says that he is her ‘sexy boy’. On another occasion she tried to give him a big silver necklace with a cross on (think ozzy osbourne) which he didn’t want, so she put it over his head and down under his T-shirt. She then lifted his shirt to see the cross, rubbed his chest and said to me “look at that sexy body”. He said nothing, just stood there.

On another day we were clearing out the loft crawl space and she said she could go in and get stuff - she hoisted her skirt up to her hips, got on all fours and crawled in - in full view of dh and I, not leaving much to the imagination.

The last thing I’ll add is when we went to see her because she had covid. She got out of bed in skimpy underwear, made no attempt to cover up and just walked around in front of us like it.

There are many more points to why I think this is an enmeshment issue but dh thinks I’m overreacting and they’re just close. Does this seem, just, wrong to anyone else or is he right and I need to back off?!

It's 100% wrong.

My ex and his mother were like this. Very similar. A therapist I was seeing called it emotional incest. My ex's mother was using my ex as a substitute partner and it wasn't at all healthy.

You're right to be concerned. It's seriously red flaggy especially as your H doesn't want to admit there's a problem. He's probably too enmeshed with his mother to want to risk seeing the truth and risking his relationship with her.

Very sad but you'll always be second if my experience if anything to go by.

Did she behave this way with DH when he was growing up also? I found this quite disturbing to read 😬

Deeply unhealthy. Having been sent away to boarding school I imagine your H has intense attachment issues which make it harder for him to risk rejecting/calling out inappropriate behaviour.

It’s not ok.

Are you accusing your mil of fancying her son?

No I’m asking if her actions are inappropriate because he thinks I’m overreacting by calling it out.

He didn’t board but was there til 5 everyday and Saturdays. When I talk about things I did with friends growing up, or we see posts about things from the 80s like playing out in the street etc, he can’t relate.

I have no idea but I imagine so, there are definitely no boundaries 😳

I am wondering why you went onto marry him given all that happened in your relationship beforehand.

His mothers actions are totally inappropriate. Familial enmeshment is emotionally unhealthy and he has been raised to see this as his normal. He may never want to see the truth re his mother either. At the very least both physical and emotional distance from her is needed.

If the sexual stuff is new, it could be dementia.

Eurgghhh. Sexy boy. Very, very wrong. Imagine a father calling his adult daughter his sexy girl. It’s honestly disgusting and I do wonder if your husband picks up on this or does he just presume it’s a normal closeness?

His mother is selfish and has no understanding of boundaries and has no respect for her son, his privacy, needs or feelings. Your DH probably needs alot of therapy to see this is abusive. My DH had similar but crossed into inappropriate contact and abuse. He only accepted it as abuse when it was validated by another family member. Talk to him about boundaries he must be very embarrassed. I feel for you.

Seriously weird behaviour from her - and he must have blinkers on not to see that this is not normal.

I’ve got mixed views about not covering up in front of him. It could be seen as inappropriate, but it could be something she’s always done, and thinks nothing of it. Regarding crawling into the loft, I don’t think that’s anything to worry about. Similarity, the covid situation. She was poorly and just hadn’t got dressed.

The sexy boy is a bit weird. Not so much the photo, it may just be a nice photo, but few mums call their sons sexy. Handsome, good looking, yes, but not sexy.

Who does he prioritise? Does he go running if mummy calls (except for in an emergency)? Dies he run every decesion by her? If so, then that’s signs of emeshment.

I haven't been on MN for so many years I'm just trying to figure out how to reply to comments 😅 In the beginning I had never heard of enmeshment or emotional incest, it was only when I started looking into it after a few years that I came across it and the lightbulb came on. He just always shrugged it off so was difficult to say anything. The the most recent things were only last year.

She has definitely made surrogate husband of him in the yeas before I knew him, and tried to keep it going after we were married as I noticed she would always have something that needed doing, or she had forgotten her passwords, or needed her phone fixing - anything to keep his attention.

They’re both fucking weird and I would tell them
so. Christ 🙄

Yes he will do whatever she needs him to do, and there is always something. However he will do it away from me because I've mentioned that the relationship is odd, so they talk on the phone when he's at work, never when he's home.

@Indiechi

Does he prioritise her over you? If so you have a colossal problem on your hands here.

He's hiding her from you like a dirty secret!!

It's weird. She's overstepping every boundary of a mother / son or family relationship. It's disgusting to read! Her "sexy boy"?! 🤮

It's not going to change OP, just stay the same or get worse.

He hasn't been to her house in a long time - but she will still whatsapp him and get him to do things like order online for her.

Some things you will have to just accept as her being a bit needy (wanting him to do things for her all the time - particularly now his dad is no longer around).

However, her constantly calling him her sexy boy is weird! I call my DS handsome & beautiful all the time, but never sexy. Why would anyone think of any family member as sexy? Good looking, yes. Sexy, no.

I think he has probably started to realise that she’s being inappropriate if he doesn’t visit so much now. But she’s still his mum and I suppose him speaking to her at work rather than at home is his way of trying to balance out both of your feelings.

@Thelifeofawife in the beginning I did just assume she was a bit needy and they were just a close family. I know all families are different and have different relationships/boundaries/households etc but this just felt so, 'off'. I did wonder if he'd distanced himself a bit but if I bring it up he gets very defensive about her/rolls his eyes at me/says I keep dragging it up so I just think he assumes that if he goes there I'll say something. I do get that it is still his Mum but at the same time I want him to realise how much it has affected his whole life because he just can't see it and it's sad.

Creepy I knew a mum who was like this to a kid in my class.

As PPs have pointed out the 'sexy' comments are weird. But you're saying he doesn't go there as much. He doesn't even call her in front of you. So why are you still bringing it up?
What are you hoping will happen or what do you want him to say?

@MelsMoneyTree because it still affects our marriage. It's weird that he 'hides' her or hides things he does for her. I don't want to be intimate with him because I can see her kissing his picture and stroking his chest calling him 'her sexy boy' and it makes feel ill. She did it in front of the kids and they don't want to go back there because it made them feel uncomfortable. His life is/has been affected because of the way she's made him her surrogate husband most of his life and because I care about him I wish he could see what she is doing/has done.

There was a boy in my son's class whose mother was like this and the boy now lives in New Zealand.