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Original poster

OW who isn’t?

90 replies

Onetimeonlyusername · 13/03/2023 18:47

Where to start. I am 61 and my DP is 63. We’ve been together for 12 years and are committed to each other. We’ve both been married before and both have kids. Neither of us are particularly bothered about doing it again, but we are financially entangled. We’ve also recently retired which makes things even more complicated.

DP has been a womaniser all his life but it largely stopped when he met me. We agreed that, if it happened, he would use condoms and tell me. He has told me about 2 occasions. One of them is the problem. He has had an on-off thing (I don’t know what to call it. It’s not an affair, but it is more than just sex) with a woman from his home country for over 20 years. Last time he went home he slept with her and subsequently told me. I asked him to cut all contact with her and he did. That was 7 years ago.

He went back to his home country in December for the first time since Covid to see his family. Unbeknownst to me he got in touch with her again and, unsurprisingly, they had sex etc. He told me a month ago but brushed it away as a fling with an old flame and nothing serious. He seemed surprised that I was jealous and said she meant nothing and was just a bit of fun. Neither of us have mentioned it since.

I could forgive all this. I knew who and what he was from the start and she is a long way away. Then I saw an email she sent him at new year. I didn’t snoop but it popped up in his sent items, the original is buried in a folder with an old business name so definitely hidden. It was devastating. It’s clear from her email that he told her he loved her and she was the one. Lots of sex stuff but not gory details, lots about how they make each other feel and romantic exchanges. He told her that he’s fantasied about her since the day they met. It’s clear that it’s not a shag with a willing volunteer. It’s a very long email and the tone and the references to comments and conversation makes it clear that they have very very deep feelings for each other. And I am honest enough to see that his feelings are probably deeper than hers. This isn’t an infatuation with a pretty little thing. She is in her 50s and a successful and accomplished woman.

She ended the email with words to the effect that anything between them was impossible because of the distance but that she had the same warm place in her heart for him as he had for her. Basically telling him it was not to be and that she wanted to stay friends. He replied to say he had read it and that he loved her but has sent nothing since.

I just don’t know what to do now. She clearly isn’t a threat to our relationship in that he won’t leave me for her. She sounds very sensible in her email and points out that, even if he did return to his home country for her, a relationship between them would be unlikely to survive the pressure. But he loves her and dreams about her and I am second to that. If I leave him I blow all my financial security for retirement. I could just leave it and let it scab over til it heals, but the scar will always be there. He has no idea that I know and I can’t ask him as I don’t want to hear him lie or tell the truth but it is burning a hole in me and I don’t know what to do.

OP posts:
Madamecastafiore · 13/03/2023 21:10

Would he be so happy and accepting about you shagging someone else?

BertaHoon · 13/03/2023 21:13

I haven't rtft but he wants his cake and eat it.

Is that the phrase?

I've been in a similar situation as OW. At least we didn't meet. He'd always stress he would never leave his wife of 40 years. It was just emotional bollocks. He'd lied to her booking weekends away etc. Thank goodness it never happened. He'll still be searching though, for the sex his wife doesn't give him.

12 years? Why the fuck are you putting up with this?

Original poster
Onetimeonlyusername · 13/03/2023 21:20

Milkandhoneybees · 13/03/2023 21:01

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head when you said that she is a fantasy and you are his reality.

Often womanisers are malcontents that are incapable of truly appreciating the person that they have, who live a very romantic existence in their heads, without giving that romance to the person who they are committed to and who is committed to them. This often comes from the concept that true happiness is to be found in another person, rather than within one’s self, so going from woman to woman means that he never has to address the gaping hole in his soul, living for the next fantasy instead.

For this reason, a woman who is perfectly out of reach, in another country, who he is realistically never able to create a relationship with, would be like crack to him - as soon as she becomes real, the shiny glaze would wear off.

If you do decide to stay with him, I don’t think encouraging transparency about his extracurricular ‘escapades’ is necessarily the best way to go about things, as you are almost sending the message that you expect it to happen, but are willing to stay with him regardless, which is green-lighting his behaviour. I would confront him and be clear that it’s high time he addressed why he has this need to live in fantasy and not reality, at your expense.

He probably loves you only to the extent to which he is able to; there is something fundamentally amiss within him that needs to be addressed. He needs to understand why reality is difficult for him (although he could just be a narcissist, but that’s for a psychiatrist to diagnose, not the internet).

I’m sorry that you’re going through this, take your time to think and assess your options. There may be more that you can do to better your situation solo than you think. Are there people IRL that you can talk to, in order to assess your options?

Show quote history

I think this is at the heart of it. It’s very hard to read some of the replies, I knew it would be and I know that some may think I am being a mug. I think the notion of him being addicted to fantasy and not being able to translate that to reality is right. Ironically she has her head screwed on better than me. She has told him that it stays in fantasy so she doesn’t ever have to deal with all this. But if she ever changes her mind then will he go to her?

I still don’t know what to do but it is good to hear all the views. I actually really agree with the comments about whether lifestyle is worth it but I am actually facing the real possibility of a poor old age with this decision and it is not so easy as it should be to kick him into touch. Especially as I do believe he loves me in his own way.

It’s hard to explain about fidelity but two instances in 12 years is nothing. This is a guy who was notorious for screwing around and basically gave it all up for me. I knew who he was and I accepted it on the basis that he always came home. That’s why this is different. He has come home but I am not sure he wants to be here.

OP posts:
InSpainTheRain · 13/03/2023 21:21

No way should you be putting up with that! I really think you need to find your self respect and dump him. Grab the evidence, take him to the cleaners and try to get as much as you can so your circumstances aren't reduced.

ArcticSkewer · 13/03/2023 21:35

You seem unconventional yourself. Mumsnet isn't.

I know men, and women, on all sides of this triangle. The ones in your husband's role do love their partners. They are usually avoidant (another poster described their thinking process) and need some distance.

It's perfectly possible to love two people simultaneously but perhaps for different reasons and in different ways.

I'd talk to him. You have nothing to lose and his answers may clarify things for you.

CovertImage · 13/03/2023 21:45

You seem unconventional yourself. Mumsnet isn't.

Ain't that the truth

Donnashair · 13/03/2023 21:56

He didn’t ‘basically’ give anything up for you.

you have an open relationship. But even in the context of that open relationship he still broke the very clear boundaries you put in place. You asked him to cut contact. He didn’t. He isn’t just having sex with her, he is investing emotionally. Why were you ok with him contacting her with the intention of having sex with her, when he agreed to cut contact?

Open relationships can work. They are still respectful. They have boundaries that are respected and stuck to. Yours isn’t respectful. It’s not so much an open relationship, as him doing what he wants regardless of your agreements.

It’s like you convinced yourself to be grateful that he isn’t sleeping with as many women as he used to.

You have been with him for a relatively short time, compared to the rest of your adult life. Despite this you chose to put yourself in a position that your financial well being is tied to him. I think you know deep down, this isn’t what you want. But because of the financial situation you will keep convincing yourself that he loves and respects you and that it’s fine, that he keeps trampling the boundaries you set. Your will spend the last part of your life, feeling fairly miserable about this whole thing as you, slowly, can’t convince yourself you are fine with it all.

UnshakenNeedsStirring · 13/03/2023 21:58

wow, you have no respect at all. Just leave ffs and start your life over, You can go back to work you know

labamba007 · 13/03/2023 22:07

How would he feel if you slept with someone else, op?

WidthofaLine · 13/03/2023 22:08

I know you have accepted a certain set of rules with this man but what about him, his character, his morals, his integrity, does it not feel wrong.

Does it not in some way give you the ick, not just concerning his sexual daliances but his lack of loyalty towards you, I just don't think I would want to be in his company knowing that his convictions were so poor.

Boogismyname · 13/03/2023 22:09

You deserve so much more than this. Honestly. Honestly.

Houseplantmad · 13/03/2023 22:14

If you don’t untangle finically now on your terms, it sounds as if it may happen in years to come when he does take the leap. It would be much more complicated to do so then and you’ll be left very vulnerable as it’ll be on his terms.

Livelifelaughter · 13/03/2023 22:16

At your age it's terribly difficult to increase your income even if you were inclined to do. It's easy to say "have self respect" etc, but you have built up your financial situation based on being together and that's difficult to unravel. I would decide if you can see past this. Personally I would not say anything because you're then giving him tacit permission to continue the relationship in his home country.

Original poster
Onetimeonlyusername · 13/03/2023 22:16

WidthofaLine · 13/03/2023 22:08

I know you have accepted a certain set of rules with this man but what about him, his character, his morals, his integrity, does it not feel wrong.

Does it not in some way give you the ick, not just concerning his sexual daliances but his lack of loyalty towards you, I just don't think I would want to be in his company knowing that his convictions were so poor.

That’s tough to read. But it strikes to the heart of it. I’m accepted a certain set of behaviours. I met him as I turned 50 and some of the things that had been important when I was younger seemed less so. I haven’t cheated on him but I certainly don’t have a clean history and I am in no position to take the moral high ground, so I think I accepted that neither of us were perfect.

But I never factored in him professing to live another. Shagging them is fine, I really don’t think I care. But he has clearly told her that he loves her and he means it, in whatever way he is able. And I really care about that. That’s the ick, not the sex.

OP posts:
Hawkins003 · 13/03/2023 22:17

Onetimeonlyusername · 13/03/2023 18:47

Where to start. I am 61 and my DP is 63. We’ve been together for 12 years and are committed to each other. We’ve both been married before and both have kids. Neither of us are particularly bothered about doing it again, but we are financially entangled. We’ve also recently retired which makes things even more complicated.

DP has been a womaniser all his life but it largely stopped when he met me. We agreed that, if it happened, he would use condoms and tell me. He has told me about 2 occasions. One of them is the problem. He has had an on-off thing (I don’t know what to call it. It’s not an affair, but it is more than just sex) with a woman from his home country for over 20 years. Last time he went home he slept with her and subsequently told me. I asked him to cut all contact with her and he did. That was 7 years ago.

He went back to his home country in December for the first time since Covid to see his family. Unbeknownst to me he got in touch with her again and, unsurprisingly, they had sex etc. He told me a month ago but brushed it away as a fling with an old flame and nothing serious. He seemed surprised that I was jealous and said she meant nothing and was just a bit of fun. Neither of us have mentioned it since.

I could forgive all this. I knew who and what he was from the start and she is a long way away. Then I saw an email she sent him at new year. I didn’t snoop but it popped up in his sent items, the original is buried in a folder with an old business name so definitely hidden. It was devastating. It’s clear from her email that he told her he loved her and she was the one. Lots of sex stuff but not gory details, lots about how they make each other feel and romantic exchanges. He told her that he’s fantasied about her since the day they met. It’s clear that it’s not a shag with a willing volunteer. It’s a very long email and the tone and the references to comments and conversation makes it clear that they have very very deep feelings for each other. And I am honest enough to see that his feelings are probably deeper than hers. This isn’t an infatuation with a pretty little thing. She is in her 50s and a successful and accomplished woman.

She ended the email with words to the effect that anything between them was impossible because of the distance but that she had the same warm place in her heart for him as he had for her. Basically telling him it was not to be and that she wanted to stay friends. He replied to say he had read it and that he loved her but has sent nothing since.

I just don’t know what to do now. She clearly isn’t a threat to our relationship in that he won’t leave me for her. She sounds very sensible in her email and points out that, even if he did return to his home country for her, a relationship between them would be unlikely to survive the pressure. But he loves her and dreams about her and I am second to that. If I leave him I blow all my financial security for retirement. I could just leave it and let it scab over til it heals, but the scar will always be there. He has no idea that I know and I can’t ask him as I don’t want to hear him lie or tell the truth but it is burning a hole in me and I don’t know what to do.

Think of your security and finances, and bury the wound.

That said all the best op

jays · 13/03/2023 22:32

That’s awful! You don’t deserve to live like this and you don’t have to! He’s not a ‘womaniser’ (I don’t believe there’s any such thing, just a chancer) because he can’t help it, it’s because he gets away with it. He CAN help it. If he loved and respected you and cared that he was hurting you, he would never do this to you. Again, you don’t have to live like this, you don’t deserve it and you shouldn’t be in pain like this. That’s a horrible man, it really is.

cherish123 · 13/03/2023 22:52

I would split up with him. He's a serial chest who can't be trusted. You need to untangle yourself financially from him for the sake of you and your children.

cherish123 · 13/03/2023 22:58

Cheat not chest

WidthofaLine · 13/03/2023 23:01

You said that if you stay together that you may follow him to his home country ?

This is the worry, surely this could not work knowing what you know now about his feelings for this woman, security and finances are important, presumably is this why you never married, was he wealthy ?

You have made concessions and sound very honest about your situation, a realist which I admire but you have hit a wall in your armoury, just as many married women can get over one night stands but can not forgive an affair with emotions, you too have this dilemma.
You thought your relationship was based on true honesty, what more could hurt you if you know the truth about someone sleeping with others but your heart cannot reconcile his deceit over his friendship and maybe love with this ow.

This must be hard as you thought you knew him so well, I understand your dissapointment but it's a hard choice of knowing whether you can cope with his deception, personally I would talk to him, allow him to explain and then make your choice.

spuddel · 13/03/2023 23:02

He told her he loved her op. That's absolutely way worse than the casual sex he may have had in his heyday. So you may close your eyes to it but he might still up and leave if she says she is available. That's a horrific position to be in. And you don't have to divorce at least. I couldn't lie in bed next to him knowing he was in love with someone else. It surely must damage your self esteem? I'd tell him to get going to the one he loves, I just couldn't accept living a lie like that.

IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls · 13/03/2023 23:28

I have been in your position OP.

He will go back to her.

Mine went back to his again after saying similar things and it destroyed me .

He trampled over everything that was sacred to me.

Unsure33 · 13/03/2023 23:38

I definitely would put some space between the two of you , could you take a quick holiday on your own to think about it ? I don’t think any of us should judge your arrangements if it suits both of you , but he has broken the very liberal rules , so forgiveness will be difficult.

quietnightmare · 13/03/2023 23:51

You all need to grow up and get a grip. He wants to have his cake and eat it to and you are letting him.

He doesn't love you, it is really that simple

You deserve Better and your still young enough to go get that.

Sort out your finances and move on

Heidi3333 · 14/03/2023 00:01

Why do you put up with
this man and his abhorrent behaviour? He has cheated on you multiple times and you allow it? Sorry, I just couldn’t. Surely you would be happier on your own or with
someone other than him? Life is too short to ne spending it with a philanderer.

FeelingHelpless99 · 14/03/2023 04:06

This seems very messy and complicated, and I don’t envy you in this position.

Perhaps at the heart of it has to be the question: does he love you too? (Or does he know he does - other comments about him being a grass-is-greener romantic fantasist strike me as true.)

Good luck…