Can a real narcissist change?

[Cookiemonster83]

Is it something in the brain that can’t be undone, like faulty wiring?

Can you have a good upbringing and just be wired that way or does it need to adverse child experiences etc?

I think the poster who suggested that you deal with her as though she is developing and anti social personality disorder and try to tech her what she needs to thrive in society in that context has it exactly right.

The better her upbringing is from your end, you cannot control what your ex does, the better her outcome will be if it turns out to be the case but equally you won’t be parenting her in a harmful manner if it turns out not to be the case.

Loads of exercises with her on how to make and maintain relationships. Loads of exercises on what others might be thinking and feeling in a variety of scenarios. Loads of love and understanding and validation for her when she is finding things difficult. Loads of empathy developing exercises. Input on emotional regulation to stop her taking things out on others when she gets dysregulated. I can’t help but wonder when you say she gets angry if she isn’t instead hurt and she wants other to understand her hurt so she tries to hurt them. It might be better approaching things from that way because of she can get the understanding she needs without hurting people that might help to address that behaviour.

Either way it sounds like she has problems based on her early experiences of your husband (not your fault by the way entirely his) at this stage of her development and this stuff will not hurt her in the long run.

Ive spoken to her this morning. A little girl in her class has had to have 10 teeth taken out. I said that must be really painful she must be really sad. What makes you sad, she says when people are mean to me. I said do you feel sad for your little friend, she says no because she has been mean to me before. I said do you sometimes feel sad when you say mean things to people, she says no because it makes me feel better because they were mean first.

I do try and model great behaviour, I don’t always get it right and if I don’t I will say I was wrong to behave like xyz and explain how it could have hurt someone’s feelings.

Nope

They most definitely can fake insight.

They study others and can switch on what they see to be the appropriate behaviour for the situation. My experience is with an adult not a child though.

You know it isn't real because you can watch them switch it back off again when you challenge them.

I really hope you get some help but sadly, to answer your question in my experience they cannot change. But I believe this is because deep down they don't see any problem with themselves. Everyone else is stupid.

I think you are doing everything you can. She sounds only able to consider her own feelings. Did you ring the doctor?

Objects of supply - absolutely spot on.

Others are there for what they can provide only.

@Lostmarblesfinder that’s great thanks. I think me and her are learning together. My marriage has definitely effected me and I’m not always the best version of myself. I do try and talk to her though so she knows I’m wrong when I’m wrong. It’s so bloody hard!

Yes

It is possible that that school kid just isn't a kid she gets on with. Hense her reaction there.

Just checking, there's no signs of fire starting? Or other animal abuse? Or bed wetting still? (Although the last one could be trauma related due to seeing her dad tbf).

@Pinkbonbon she wet the bed twice in the past few years so no really. No fire starting or hurting other animals.

@Lostmarblesfinder this, exactly. Thank you for expanding.

@Cookiemonster83, you won't be harming her in any way by taking an approach like this - she's been through a lot, she's around the age when all children need some empathy coaching, and educating her in pro-social behaviours can only benefit her. Plus, she will feel more "heard" when you engage with how she's genuinely feeling and go from there.

She actually sounds like a very sparky child with boundaries galore! I really hope the pair of you find ways to interact that will help improve her prospects and her respect for you both as a person and her mother.

Over the years, I've known a lot of angry children who absolutely loved martial arts classes (or other fighting disciplines). Is this something that would appeal?