DH’s crisis of masculinity

[Ujustcan031289]

Trying to get a better understanding of my DH’s outlook. I really don’t want any brash LTB comments because our relationship is generally good.

We’ve been together 10 years and I’ve always been the higher earner. Sometimes much higher sometimes only slightly. My job has more career progression and I have worked hard to climb up. DH is more limited, it’s construction sector and depends on seasons, he dips in and out of sole trader and contracted worker so it varies.

It is something he has only brought up over the past couple of years that he can feel emasculated that I earn more. That he is the man and he should be the main provider for the family. In a conversation over dinner tonight he’s stated that men aren’t happy unless they are providing for a family. I said he does provide for his family and works very hard and the fact my job happens to pay more is no reflection on him. Would he be happier to have a housewife and us have less money coming in and less of a comfortable life? No he said.

so I don’t know what the issue is or where this comes from. I used to think he was proud of me, he used to like telling people what I do and that I’m good at my job. Similarly I am proud of him and tell people so. He used to be my biggest cheerleader but now he seems to see my career has some insult to his ‘masculinity’.

He also sees himself as the ‘protector’ of the household. And has bared grudges against my DD17 having a boyfriend in the house like it’s some sort of threat. And when our car was vandalised in the street a little while back (and we knew who it was) he felt his role as ‘protector’ was undermined as I insisted we dealt with it through the right channels rather than the ways he wanted to which were illegal.

I have one DD who lives with us and he has 50/50 care of his 2 DDs. There are a lot of women around, is that it? Is there not enough testosterone in our house? He’s great with the girls he does all manner activities from letting them paint his nails and make perfumes to teaching them to fish and play football. He’s really strong on education for them and doing well at school and have careers so I just don’t know where it comes from.

to be honest I find it hard not to find it all a bit pathetic but I love this man very much and so I try where I can to respect how he feels. But I can’t see a solution to it or how things could be different.

I have considered whether he is having some sort of mental health crisis. Another factor is that he does now work with very, what I would call, ‘blokey blokes’ and the whether that’s an influence.

it makes me sad that he seems to take issue with something I am proud of. I was a very young Mum and a single mum for a long time and I worked hard to be independent and provide for me and my DD. It was at times very tough and its a big part of who I am, he knows that. I used to think it was one of the things he loved about me 😞

Sorry that’s long, but I don’t have many people I could let that out to in IRL and would be interested in thoughts or others experiences

I would have been proud of you if I were him 🌷 you keep doing what you think is best for you - you not "harming him" as long as there is work vs home balance in relationship. He needs to sort himself out. Perhaps counselling could help change his mindset.

It’s him, not you.

I would be proud of you too. Me and DH are a team. I earn more but I couldn’t do it without his support and we both know it.

sounds like he needs to grow up and lose the chip on his shoulder

I honestly just think it's a male thing. It's not him. Most men struggle when their partners earn more - they're more likely to be unhappy, to cheat etc. It's a masculinity thing. As men evolution (think hundreds and thousands of years) has seen them be the provider and protector whatever that means. It's only relatively recently this has changed. I think a lot of men feel their place in the world is a bit lost without it.

Studies and stats to back up the above if you look, sorry I can't right now

It’s the blokey blokes, pressing his buttons.

Sorry OP, it does sound horrible.

If it’s a new thing, I wonder what had prompted it? Any chance he’s watching MRA stuff or Jordan Peterson etc on Youyube?

He can be proud of you, but also a bit imasculated. The vandalism thing might have had more of an effect than you might have considered too. Something outside of his control.
He's middle aged. People assess things in middle age, is a cliche but true.

On the positive, it sounds like you have a good relationship because he can talk about it with you.

I did do some reading on how men have effectively been left behind whilst society has progressed quickly in the scheme of things compared to traditional roles over thousands of years and I can definitely understand that as a bigger picture but fail to see how that impacts us on a family level. I can’t imagine reflecting on a society as a whole and feeling hard done by on a personal level when our life is pretty good and overall it works well and he will admit that.

He has watched some Jordan Peterson stuff but we have discussed it and whilst he admitted being for some of his stuff he also labelled him an insufferable prick and extreme.

It is definitely more recent, probably since Covid. I don’t recall having these conversations with him before then and if he’d had this outlook when we met then I doubt our relationship would have progressed!

Construction has a workers shortage and can be highly paid. Perhaps he should look at widening his skillset or working for different companies who pay more or staying at a company and moving up the ladder.

Why, just why, are you questioning yourself? He has chosen his Career and apart from his ego, it seems as if he’s thrown it back at you? If it’s just a change in mood, then have a chat

Well there's lots he can do as a construction worker to earn more, isn't there? Stick religiously to self-employed, work abroad for six months, start his own business, learn new skills...

My DH earns 5 x my salary but I'm a lazy-ass freelancer with a son with ASD. He's always been on a career track, which of course has been enabled by me doing the lion's share of DS care over the year. I benefit hugely from his salary. I don't get to do that then feel resentful for him for earning it!

He needs to give his head a wobble, but you also need to be really really clear that toxic masculinity isn't welcome in your home.

It's not you it's him.

I had a DF who was the lower earner (back in the 70s!) who didn't find it emasculating, and now a DH who is, who also doesn't find it emasculating.

He spends too much hanging out with blokey blokes and not enough working out how he could be a higher paid construction worker.

I have no patience with this kind of macho ego nonsense from men.

This was my first thought as well

Agree there is a lot more money that can be earned in construction. And he is currently branching out, which is where he’s come across his delightful new colleagues.

we do talk about it, which is good. Although sometimes I have to walk away from discussions as I can find it exasperating. For example if we get on to the ‘Not all men’ subject and women’s safety etc. I can find myself getting angry with some of the things he says and have to leave it. I do think the internet can have a part in this, he can come out with some things but when I put them to him on a practical or personal level for example to how his daughters might feel or be treated then it’s almost like the fog clears and he can see things more clearly.

It’s like he’s going backwards. Although we don’t have children together we did discuss it a few years ago and he even offered up being a stay at home dad because in his words ‘your career is more important and earns more’. And he said that without a flicker of resentment. It’s like it’s not the same person!

This. And you’re the one putting in the emotional work to try to understand and resolve his issue. I get why, because it’s having an impact on your happiness, but ultimately, it’s his problem to solve, not yours to shrink yourself to fit.

@AmandaClare what is MRA? I’ve googled but it’s just something like an MRI scan so I’m missing something 🤣

@Dzogchen don’t worry I will not be shrinking myself to fit. I want to try and understand what’s going on with him. Ultimately if I can’t work that out and neither can he and if it continues to have a negative impact on our relationship and household then we will be having different talks

Men’s rights activist

I bet he's been reading online bullshit. Andrew Tate and the numerous spin-off woe is me pity party forums moaning about women having 'masculine energy' if they earn more and God forbid have some intelligence. Telling men they have to be The Alpha in all ways which includes having a nice submissive woman.

I hope he gets over it. I know a couple of men I now swerve due to this mindset. I know it's really because they're disillusioned with life/work/achievements etc but 'Its all womens' fault' (especially when they doing nothing to change their lot in life, just reading misogynistic incel nonsense online + thinking women have to be available to listen to their whinging) is jarring, I don't want to hear it so I choose not to.

Both these men I've known many years and never ever heard any misogynistic talk before. But it seems to be getting more and more common. I think you need an honest very direct conversation with your H. Not long and drawn out, just straight to the point and what he expects to happen in order that this is resolved. Within that let him know you absolutely will not be negged by him daily with gender war commentary, its not on. Especially as you have young women in your household. They don't need this around them.

You've had it if he's too far gone though

It could be the blokey blokes influencing him, or he might just have changed his way of thinking, but it might unfortunately be that he thought this way all along.

I earned more than my ex, not to start with but I got a much better job. He always said he was proud of me and that made me so happy. When our relationship started to crack, it became clear that he resented it, even though it meant we could afford things we would not have been able to otherwise. If I said we could afford something he’d sometimes say bitterly “well you can afford it”. He turned a lot of things round on me that he’d claimed to be have agreed with - said he didn’t like the food I cooked and hadn’t really agreed with plans we were making to relocate. So he’d been keeping up various lies like this for a long time, and I felt he never really had been proud of me.

I now earn much more than DH and he too has always said he’s proud of me. But I do sometimes wonder. He’s certainly never said he feels emasculated, but he has said like your dh that he feels he should be the provider for his family.

To be blunt, the issue isn’t that you earn more but that he earns less. The remedy, if one were needed, would not be for you to get a lower paid job but for him to bring in more, if he feels so strongly about it. He clearly doesn’t really want you to earn less!

It’s such a shame that we and they have to feel like this in 2023. The idea of the man being the main earner is so deeply embedded in society for the simple reason that women were kept limited for so long. How ridiculous, really, that a man should feel less male because his partner is paid more money for their job.

I hate feeling that there’s something a bit abnormal about my family because of this. I certainly don’t feel guilty but I do feel a bit sad that this situation isn’t seen as totally normal - it shouldn’t matter who earns more.

I think it's fine for him to have these feelings so long as he's dealing with it himself, which it sounds like he's not. What does he want from you? He clearly likes the lifestyle your money affords you. And I doubt he actually would enjoy prison time after beating up whoever vandalised your car.

I can't pretend to understand why a man might feel like this. I suggest you tell him unless he has some sort of solution to offer that he stops trying to lay this baggage at your feet to solve.

I just wanted to say don’t doubt yourself, and I am sure he is proud of you. It is probably a drop in his own confidence that is affecting him. That incident where he wanted to take illegal action in retaliation won’t have helped.

Definitely do not leave this nice man.

This makes me sad. Your partner should be boasting about your achievements and not seeing them as a threat!

I earn around 25k more than my DH and he loves it! Keeps joking that I should chase the promotions so he can be a kept man. It's never once been a thought in his mind that my salary would mean he is inferior.

Puff your chest with pride OP and ignore his grossly outdated mindset.

I honestly just think it's a male thing. It's not him. Most men struggle when their partners earn more.

Oh boo hoo. They need to grow up and move into the 21st century. I'm 51. I earned more than dh for the first part of our relationship. It never bothered him in the slightest. Then for quite a long time he was the much higher earner. Now we're equal. So what? I have no patience with this macho bollocks. And his attitude to your daughter's boyfriend is a big red flag.

Stop entertaining this nonsense.

His strategy to win the game his wife's not even playing, is telling his wife to stop winning.. there's a name for men who behave like that.

Either he follows the rules of the "game" and cracks on to earn more and "win", or he accepts this is a stupid game to play in the first place..

@Ujustcan031289

to be honest I find it hard not to find it all a bit pathetic but I love this man very much and so I try where I can to respect how he feels. But I can’t see a solution to it or how things could be different.

I agree with you, it is pathetic. Sort of understandable but bloody annoying.

Get your finger out and up your earnings pal! I realise it's not that easy, but that's the actual solution here.