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Original poster

Is having kids worth it? Do women have crap choices? choices

105 replies

TwoTwitTuTu · 13/02/2023 16:48

I'm 37 TTC baby 1.

Finding myself very ambivalent.

My partner of two years is committed and motivated. He'd be a great dad. He isn't perfect, he can be a little impatient and short tempered and obviously this will be worse with kids. However I do think he will be committed and motivated if we have a baby and I won't be left alone as many women are. Financially we are very secure and don't want for anything, so I'm incredibly lucky.

His family are a little overbearing, but nothing shocking. The usual MIL problems. I'm an only child,no parents around, but warm relationships with extended family.

For years I wanted to meet someone I could have a baby with and finally I have. We have been TTC for two months.

However I'm now finding I'm ambivalent about it, having wanted it for ages. When my period comes, I'm slightly relieved. I dread birth and dealing with the early years and sleeplessness and exhaustion.

TBH, I'm not feeling excited about the prospect of a baby, I think they're cute, but the 24/7 nature of it frightens me. Childbirth fills me with dread. Having to care for a young infant every single day sounds quite honestly exhausting. I don't know if this is because I'm 37 and just have less energy? I work as a professional currently in a job with long hours and could afford to give it up, but don't particularly want to. However my job is pretty technical and I wouldn't be able to do it on little sleep or part time so I think that would likely have to end.

I know my partner wouldn't quit his job. I also know if I said I didn't want kids he would probably split up with me.

I don't think I could be in a better position to have a baby though. Loads of women do with less.

However it's just looking a bit bleak from where I am, I feel genuinely tired thinking about the idea of a baby.

I think if I said I wanted to stop TTC I would fairly quickly find I am on my own with no nuclear family and no prospect of that in my life again.

I could meet someone and have a romantic relationship, maybe step kids, but that's probably the closest I would come to family if I decided I don't want a baby with my current partner. That sounds pretty bleak as well.

I keep wondering if I have slight depression or something as all of my choices as a woman just don't look that great?

Or do you think that maybe I'm just too honest with myself about the choices society presents us with and they are just kind of awful options?

I wouldn't mind being a father, but the mother role, or the alternative of being that crazy cat lady both look so unappealing.

I feel like everyone around me is married with kids and it just doesn't look great. I feel like everyone seems sorry for, or mocks the single women in their forties... What is actually a good choice here? What's the happy path? I feel like the problem isn't with me, I've had loads of counselling. I genuinely think it might be that the choices are bad.

... Does anyone have any wise thoughts?

OP posts:
Orangeradiorabbit · 13/02/2023 21:25

Pressed send too soon: Please don't think a child-free life has to be all "cat lady" and not feeling satisfied. You do have a choice. I should mention I had a partner in the past who tried to pressurise me into having children (his family did too), so I know how tough that can be. Like others have suggested, I recommend a proper talk with your partner about how you're feeling.

Whydoievenbother · 14/02/2023 02:03

Captainfairylights · 13/02/2023 20:59

Some women are lucky and want children in a straightforward way. Others of us, I count myself among them, and maybe those who were older when they had their first child are ambivalent. The ambivalence has not stopped for me, it is a life state. I think going from being one person to two people is a mind bend that never goes away. I have often tried to explain to women who don't have children who respond to every complaint "well you CHOSE to have children!" that it is not as simple as that. When you have a child you go through a portal. You can't ever go back to who you were, and so I think there is legitimate grief in that. Not that you should expect anyone to give a hoot of course, they don't. But you can recognise it and be kind to yourself. Also, even if you have chosen something, that does not mean you can't never feel ambivalent about it, frustrated, angry, disappointed. Having a child is uniquely a choice you make without knowing what it really entails.

I found the adjustment to being a mother very hard. I found the world was unkind to mothers, and that society does not value mothers or children. I feel having a child destroyed the relationship with my husband, with the end to my privacy that it entailed and the endless pressure that was put upon us and especially me. I am sure this is not the case for others, perhaps, but it was for me.

The payoffs are not compensation. They are simply that I have participated properly in what life, for me, is about. I love my daughter, and I think the world is better for her being in it. I am glad I have given someone an opportunity to have a life, a good one. I think she is a lovely person and may well become an amazing one. I will be connected to someone until I die, and beyond. I have the opportunity to grow as a person myself, to be my best for her. These are all deep things that make my choice the right one.

But I stopped at one. I feel the price of admission to a meaningful life is very high indeed. I am maxed out.

This is exactly how I feel

3487642l · 14/02/2023 02:16

This is an excellent time to be a single woman with no children! The stigma has never been this minimal and you can enjoy a meaningful life in so many ways - work, interests, friends, philanthropy. If you are keen to spend some time with young people you can be the cool aunt to your friends'children as they get older. You can even look out for a man who wants to be with you even if you don't want to have a baby. He might be a lot of fun to be with. That sounds like a pretty great life to me.

TheShellBeach · 14/02/2023 03:37

If he really wants you to have his child, why hasn't he proposed marriage to you?

barmycatmum · 14/02/2023 03:41

if you don’t want to, DON’T DO IT!! I was ambivalent, chose child free, and I am so grateful.
there is nothing crazy about cat lady - they say the happiest women on earth are unmarried and child free, and I can heartily endorse that.

Moser85 · 14/02/2023 04:03

My partner of two years is committed and motivated. He'd be a great dad. He isn't perfect, he can be a little impatient and short tempered and obviously this will be worse with kids. However I do think he will be committed and motivated if we have a baby and I won't be left alone as many women are.

Many women have felt that way and were proven very wrong.
There's even plenty of men who are good dads at the start, but in the event of a relationship breakdown they don't bother with their kids at all.

cosmiccosmos · 14/02/2023 05:38

I think the problem is this - you know, deep down, that your partner won't make a good father. You've already said he's short tempered etc. This is manifesting itself as you doubting your desire to have children, you already know you will be on your own.

What is he like re sharing the load at home?

Personally I think many men get worse after children, there was a good post on another thread recently about the transition through from being a couple, going on maternity etc. I think unless you have a good partner who values you and treats you as equal in all ways it's very very hard.

Emptycrackedcup · 14/02/2023 05:45

3487642l · 14/02/2023 02:16

This is an excellent time to be a single woman with no children! The stigma has never been this minimal and you can enjoy a meaningful life in so many ways - work, interests, friends, philanthropy. If you are keen to spend some time with young people you can be the cool aunt to your friends'children as they get older. You can even look out for a man who wants to be with you even if you don't want to have a baby. He might be a lot of fun to be with. That sounds like a pretty great life to me.

This, you have so many choices OP. I think you know in your gut what is right, listen to it

Indáirire · 14/02/2023 06:30

Being a parent is fairly relentless. However, my kids give me so much love and happiness. I wouldn't be without them now. Think carefully.

BooseysMom · 14/02/2023 06:58

Captainfairylights · 13/02/2023 20:59

Some women are lucky and want children in a straightforward way. Others of us, I count myself among them, and maybe those who were older when they had their first child are ambivalent. The ambivalence has not stopped for me, it is a life state. I think going from being one person to two people is a mind bend that never goes away. I have often tried to explain to women who don't have children who respond to every complaint "well you CHOSE to have children!" that it is not as simple as that. When you have a child you go through a portal. You can't ever go back to who you were, and so I think there is legitimate grief in that. Not that you should expect anyone to give a hoot of course, they don't. But you can recognise it and be kind to yourself. Also, even if you have chosen something, that does not mean you can't never feel ambivalent about it, frustrated, angry, disappointed. Having a child is uniquely a choice you make without knowing what it really entails.

I found the adjustment to being a mother very hard. I found the world was unkind to mothers, and that society does not value mothers or children. I feel having a child destroyed the relationship with my husband, with the end to my privacy that it entailed and the endless pressure that was put upon us and especially me. I am sure this is not the case for others, perhaps, but it was for me.

The payoffs are not compensation. They are simply that I have participated properly in what life, for me, is about. I love my daughter, and I think the world is better for her being in it. I am glad I have given someone an opportunity to have a life, a good one. I think she is a lovely person and may well become an amazing one. I will be connected to someone until I die, and beyond. I have the opportunity to grow as a person myself, to be my best for her. These are all deep things that make my choice the right one.

But I stopped at one. I feel the price of admission to a meaningful life is very high indeed. I am maxed out.

Great post! I feel the same. Esp this... I feel having a child destroyed the relationship with my husband, with the end to my privacy that it entailed and the endless pressure that was put upon us and especially me. I am sure this is not the case for others, perhaps, but it was for me.

I also stopped at one and after years of beating myself up, I now know I made the right decision. My DS is my be all & end all, and although this is amazing and beautiful, it's also all-consuming and terrifying.

PeacefulPottering · 14/02/2023 07:02

Having his child without being married will leave you extremely vulnerable financially no matter how great your job is now.
If you have a child, someone will have to compromise in reducing their paid work. If it's you, without being married, it's madness.

TifT · 14/02/2023 07:09

Personally I wouldn’t do it. Reading between the lines, your partner doesn’t sound great and if he is short tempered now, that will get worse when he has no sleep and a baby to deal with. You don’t sound that mad about it to be honest. Have you settled for him a bit just so you can have this baby that the world expects you to have? You don’t have to and can have a very fulfilling life without children in it. Find a better partner for you who and see where it takes tou.

TimingIsABitch · 14/02/2023 07:13

My DC are 19 & 16 now - had first one around your age.

If I had my time again I would work and send them to nursery pre 5. That was the time I found incredibly hard, boring and I was resentful for a long time.

I have loved all the rest of it and so very pleased I had them.

2crossedout1 · 14/02/2023 07:16

Thinking that you'll probably have to give up a job you don't want to give up is a really bad start to 50/50 parenting. I think you need to have a conversation with your partner about how 50/50 parenting is going to look like for you as a couple. It's really NOT inevitable that as the mum you'll end up giving up your job (especially as you're not married - never become a SAHM if you're not married!) and being available for the baby 24/7 while your partner's life carries on as before. I'm not surprised you're feeling ambivalent if that's how you see the future.

You need a proper chat with your parter about this. How about shared parental leave? Consider the options before making a decision.

However at the end of the day I agree with other posters. If you're not sure, better not to have one.

wp65 · 14/02/2023 07:19

Captainfairylights · 13/02/2023 20:59

Some women are lucky and want children in a straightforward way. Others of us, I count myself among them, and maybe those who were older when they had their first child are ambivalent. The ambivalence has not stopped for me, it is a life state. I think going from being one person to two people is a mind bend that never goes away. I have often tried to explain to women who don't have children who respond to every complaint "well you CHOSE to have children!" that it is not as simple as that. When you have a child you go through a portal. You can't ever go back to who you were, and so I think there is legitimate grief in that. Not that you should expect anyone to give a hoot of course, they don't. But you can recognise it and be kind to yourself. Also, even if you have chosen something, that does not mean you can't never feel ambivalent about it, frustrated, angry, disappointed. Having a child is uniquely a choice you make without knowing what it really entails.

I found the adjustment to being a mother very hard. I found the world was unkind to mothers, and that society does not value mothers or children. I feel having a child destroyed the relationship with my husband, with the end to my privacy that it entailed and the endless pressure that was put upon us and especially me. I am sure this is not the case for others, perhaps, but it was for me.

The payoffs are not compensation. They are simply that I have participated properly in what life, for me, is about. I love my daughter, and I think the world is better for her being in it. I am glad I have given someone an opportunity to have a life, a good one. I think she is a lovely person and may well become an amazing one. I will be connected to someone until I die, and beyond. I have the opportunity to grow as a person myself, to be my best for her. These are all deep things that make my choice the right one.

But I stopped at one. I feel the price of admission to a meaningful life is very high indeed. I am maxed out.

This is so well expressed

RebeccaCloud9 · 14/02/2023 07:26

Honestly, a lot of being a parent, on paper, is crap. Hard work, putting someone else first always, mess, sleeplessness, your job becoming harder or unsustainable.

For me, those things just are nothing really now I have my actual, real life children who I love.

Without that love, it is hard to see why any of the difficulties are worth it.

I debated for years as to whether or not to have a third. The actual reality of it seemed impossible. But now we have her, I just look at her every day and marvel at how wonderful she is and feel so lucky that she is here.

Obviously not being a parent is the absolute right choice for some people. But try to see the positive side at the same time as the difficulties, because that's what makes it worth it.

PandasAreUseless · 14/02/2023 07:32

Childfree/childless doesn't have to mean 'crazy cat lady'!

In fact, the most 'crazy cat lady' person I know has two kids.

She loved family life when they were primary school age. But she's only ever worked a 3-day week and, as the children have got older, she simply hasn't kept herself busy enough. She has no hobbies beyond buying stuff and scrolling through social media.
I get a sense of real dissatisfaction from her and distinct lack of purpose.

RebeccaCloud9 · 14/02/2023 07:35

I also found that my life changed for the better in many unexpected ways:

I now work part time and love it. I get much more pleasure and much less stress from it now.

I have many more friends now, some of the best friends I've ever had. Some of my children's friends' parents and other mums from baby groups/school have brightened my world.

We are much more a part of our local community then we ever were before kids.

My relationship with my parents is better than ever.

I appreciate my own time more now and make the most of it much more than before.

As well as the obvious love for my children!

BenCoopersSupportWren · 14/02/2023 07:46

I feel the price of admission to a meaningful life is very high indeed.

Such a shame that an otherwise thoughtful, articulate post fell into the cliché of suggesting that you have to have children to have a “meaningful life”. It is perfectly possible to be child free and still have a life full of purpose, meaning, empathy and love. (And cats, but only if you want them.)

AGoldenNarwhal · 14/02/2023 07:47

As someone said above, men get worse after children. So I'd think very hard about your partner - is it that you don't want children at all or that you don't want children with him?

Even many apparently 'good' men who were sharing the load before children seem to view maternity leave as a chance to push everything domestic/child-related onto their partner's shoulders. And they usually don't take their share back when their partner goes back to work. Maternity leave should come with a health warning for women.

And personal opinion, but I'd never have a child with someone I wasn't married to. You mention that your partner would never quit his job - worst-case scenario is that he exploits your unpaid labour to get ahead in his career while you fall behind and then you're entitled to very little in any eventual split.

That said, kids are wonderful and I definitely don't regret my two. But you can think kids are wonderful and also recognise that parenthood isn't for you.

JustJamie5 · 14/02/2023 08:02

Lots of good perspectives here! However it may be useful to look at Reddit’s fencesitters too.

RidingMyBike · 14/02/2023 08:21

I was quite like you for years - I wanted a baby in my early 30s but also loved my work and was terrified of the changes a baby would bring. DH was keener but older and we knew we'd physically struggle as we're both very introverted. My extended family were full on attachment parenting types so there was a lot of normalising extreme sleep deprivation lasting years, never being away from the baby/toddler/child all of which looked awful.

What changed for me was realising that you don't have to parent this way. I overheard an episode of Woman's Hour with a Health Visitor who said 80% of babies are capable of sleeping through by 3 months, but you have to set the scene to help them do this. I read 'French children don't throw food' which is a bit silly but also opened my eyes to other parenting choices I just wasn't aware of. We did the 'pause' technique suggested in the book and our baby slept through by 6-8 weeks. We also implemented firm but loving boundaries extremely consistently(!) so didn't have the behaviour challenges or lack of sleep my extended family were dealing with.

And... it's fine. DD is lovely and great fun to be around. She's confident, exuberant and popular. We split the responsibility 50/50 although he does more than me in terms of actual
childcare. The baby year was tough - I'm just not a baby person - and we'd have been better splitting shared parental leave between us rather than me doing a year of maternity leave. I also feared giving birth and wish I'd gone for an ELCS but I didn't know I could actively choose to have one.

Good luck with your decision-making!

RidingMyBike · 14/02/2023 08:25

And you need to have the conversation about careers. It doesn't have to be your career on the line - I'm now more senior and working more hours than I was before we had DD and DH has flexed his career around this. There were a few years when I felt like I was treading water and couldn't progress which was frustrating but I did lots of CPD and took a couple of extra qualifications so when the right next job came up I was ready for it.

neurospicygal · 14/02/2023 08:25

It's abit of a gamble there if you carry on TTC in the hope you might like motherhood, especially when you sound more on the negative side of ambivalence.
Realistically none of us know if we'll like being a mother until we do it and most of us get on alright, love them to bits, fight for them to get the best chances in life that we can give them with lots of stress and heartache in the end when they leave home. If you've done a good job, they still visit/want to meet later on.

If you dont want to have children then don't carry on TTC just for sake of keeping your partner or wider family. What if you can't conceive, what would they do then? You could have kids and still it not work out. Drill down what you want and go from there.

AuntSallie · 14/02/2023 08:42

He'd be a great dad. He isn't perfect, he can be a little impatient and short tempered and obviously this will be worse with kids.
Not necessarily. My DH became more patient and more calm than I ever have been once the DC arrived. I’ve seen the same with many of his male friends & might female friends as well. So, it’s not a given that men or women become more impatient or more short tempered after they have a baby.

However I'm now finding I'm ambivalent about it, having wanted it for ages. When my period comes, I'm slightly relieved. I dread birth and dealing with the early years and sleeplessness and exhaustion. TBH, I'm not feeling excited about the prospect of a baby, I think they're cute, but the 24/7 nature of it frightens me. Childbirth fills me with dread. Having to care for a young infant every single day sounds quite honestly exhausting.

I felt the same when we were TTC #1. It’s one thing to think about hypothetical DC but, I would think at times, OMG I could be pregnant right now….so this could be really happening! I would feel terrified thinking this because it’s such a huge commitment and yes you have no idea how childbirth will go. Embarking on parenthood is largely a leap of faith, and especially if you want to be good parents it can be more terrifying than exciting. Once Im hugely pregnant, a switch flips and I went from a bit scared about DC #1 and how I might fuck up their lives to feeling impatient as in get the baby out of me already! This doesn’t happen with later babies, it’s the first one that had me on that roller coaster constantly questioning can I do this?

I wouldn't mind being a father, but the mother role,
Well, this is all negotiable. Your partner may not quit work to be a SAHD, but he could reduce his hours or look for a more flexible job and you can also go back to work once recovered from childbirth. Having DC doesn’t mean the mother must quit work, or end her career even if the father also wants to keep working too. If this is a source of anxiety, start talking about how life would look with DC and make it clear you want a more modern set up instead of the traditional gender roles.