Is it really me..?

[EveryNameIThinkOfIsTaken]

I've posted here before about relationship issues and had really good reflections from other which I've taken into account.in fact, in the past 15 years I've been on here, I've posted about every relationship I've been in.

11 years ago, it was my marriage ending because he met someone else. It wasn't surprising, we didn't fancy or love each other and never really had done. It was a mistake getting together but he'd been my best friend at school and once we'd got together, neither of us wanted to lose the friendship so we plodded along in a bit of a fog. He wasn't a 'cheat', he just met someone he fell in love with after 12 years of near celibacy for both of us. We'd had sex probably less than a dozen times altogether and only twice after the first 4 months. He was embarrassed by me because I wasn't pretty and would walk behind me, he compared le tp women in films, he wanted to know why i couldn't be like other women. We split up I had therapy.

The following year, I dated someone for a few short months who had ED through excessive porn use and I discovered he was on dating apps. He's also told me that he'd only dated beautiful women in the past but he'd always been worried they'd cheat but he didn't have that problem with me (because I wasn't attractive enough to be of interest to anyone else). So I ended it. In hindsight, I know I should have ended this one sooner. But I'm 10 years older and wiser now.

The following year, I dated someone for 5 months who i got on really well with but he then told me I was too old for him really (even though I was younger than him) and he wanted to be with someone younger. He also started gawping at younger women when we went out. He mocked an older woman for her (perfectly normal) appearance once. So I ended it.

A couple of years later, I met someone else who seemed keen but who started comparing me to other women and was embarrassed that his ex gf might see me (he was definitely single, I met his family and some friends) so we couldn't go out locally. So, after 3 months, I ended it.
I few years later, I went out with someone who would criticise and compare me to other women. Tell me how beautiful and sexy other women were but unable to tell I even looked nice when we went out for the evening. So I ended it.I tread carefully where relationships are concerned. I take them slowly. These are the ones who made it through the first few dates without similar red flags. Some would make these comments and criticisms from the first date.But I've never been out with anyone who didn't compare me to other women and find me lacking or criticise me for not being attractive or sexy enough. Or try and improve me on those grounds.Tonight, I'm ending another relationship and I'm really sad about it tbh. We get on so well. Everything has just fallen into place perfectly. We've been together over a year. But still the little comments have been there. Not direct comparisons to me but telling me X is really sexy/gorgeous/beautiful - women who are ina different league to me. Yes, he says those things to me but he has also asked me to dress up to be more sexy, to look like those other women he finds sexy. It's not about me, it's about me recreating what he finds sexy about other women because I'm not one of the women he finds sexy. He's never 'cruel' in how he says things but the comments are there nevertheless.I know that he loves me but I've just withdrawn and I can't do it anymore. I'm at the point of realising it has to be me. I see other women in relationships who aren't 'beautiful' or outwardly/obviously 'sexy'. So it's be me. Do other women experience similar? Are other women just more resilient than me and brush it off when their partners prefer other women to them? Or compare them? Or want to dress them up like someone they fancy? Do other women's partners/boyfriend's insist on walking ahead of them so other people don't realise they're together? Do other men position their partner's physically so that they look more appealing sexually to them? Or tell them what great bodies (big boobs, they're a person trainer and so really slim) their exes had? I think I'm reasonably attractive. I think I have a reasonably attractive body shape (size 12/14 hourglass), I'm educated, I have opinions, interests, hobbies but the constant criticisms and clear message that I'm not 'enough' over the years have made me 'small', anxious, self critical. I feel unattractive (as a whole person), inadequate, angry with myself. I feel disgusted and full of self loathing now.I suppose I just can't believe it's happened again. I'm never going to have that experience of feeling loved, safe and content. Of having a true relationship or partnership. I just can't believe that this is it.

There were paragraphs when I typed it.

It's not you. You need to work on your self esteem and confidence and raise it to a level at which you wouldn't look twice at these pathetic men. Your bar needs to be a lot higher. Take some time to work on yourself. You sound lovely and deserve much more. Why do we women put up with this treatment? I don't know if any woman who openly compares her partner to other men or makes them walk in front. You need to dump them the first time they do that.

No it’s not you OP, and no there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s them…any decent person knows you don’t talk like that or treat someone you care about/are dating like that. Those men are arseholes, they’ll be arseholes to the next woman.
As PP said, I think do some work on your self image and self esteem, it sounds like it’s been completely ground down. These men do it because sadly they realise they can.
Can you give us an example of how you would react to a negative comment?

My self esteem was never better though than after my marriage ended and I'd had therapy.

I operated a three strikes and you're out policy. So these weren't comments that were made repeatedly, or things that happened repeatedly (apart from som epf the stuff that happened in my marriage because I didn't know any better then).

Mostly I don't react. I just file akd then walk away. If someone needs to he told that you don't say x, y, z then they're not worth bothering with. It's not my job to teach them.

This recent one over found harder because it represented a bit of a 'last chance saloon' and we've known each other for years and in every other way its perfect.

I've rejected far more men than I've dated because of this.

It's been all of them.

My partner often comments on an attractive woman as do I. And I am free to comment on an attractive man. But its never a comparison just an observation. And not in a leery way. Looks are just one aspect in a personality!
He'll often say if we're going out 'why don't you wear x or y as he thinks I look good in them, but never to the point where i feel I'm letting him down by wearing something else.
In light of your past experiences, which do sound absolutely awful, are you over thinking his comments? Perhaps he thinks you're hiding your light under a bushel. Obviously only you know how it was said but just offering another view.

No, it’s definitely not you, and you don’t have to tolerate being made to feel like this, but I find it a bit odd that you soak it up 3 times then walk before challenging it in any way. Rather than immediately dumping this guy, who you’ve said is otherwise perfect, have you tried talking to him about it? Could you just say “DP, when you say X, it makes me feel like Y. Please don’t do it again.” Ideally he would apologise, say he wasn’t aware you felt like that and then not say it again, and from the sounds of it, everything else in the relationship is ok, so wouldn’t that be the best solution?

If he then does it again, then of course, you can walk away with your head held high, but personally if I were on a “3 strikes and you’re out” rule that I was unaware of, and my partner had never mentioned I’d upset them, I would be a bit miffed to have reached it without any idea of what “it” was. Would you lose anything from giving him an opportunity to change? Yes, you shouldn’t have to “teach” people how to be, but we’re all human, we all make mistakes, we all say things clumsily sometimes or say things that are interpreted completely differently by others. IMHO you won’t find a contented, secure relationship unless you’re able to communicate what makes you feel that way (or not) with the other person. If everything else is good, I’d give him a chance.

Fuck 3 strikes. You need a 1 strike policy OP!

The slightest hint of any disrespect, unkindness, misogyny etc and he'd be out the door.

I did this, and in 10 years my DH has never once behaved like a bell end. Dumped a lot of dick heads within the first 3 dates though

Honestly, I half wonder what you look like and what the men you are dating look like. I'm not conventionally attractive but I know men who I date find me attractive and sexy as hell (the latest!). I'm not. Trust me. These men are attractive to me (outwardly I don't know if they are to everyone else). I honestly can't believe being treated how you have. It's absolutely shocking. You deserve so much more and I hope you find someone who treats you with respect and love.

@EveryNameIThinkOfIsTaken can you tell us a bit more about what you feel unhappy with on the ‘one you’re going to dump to tonight’?

as your description there doesn’t like a clear ‘dump’ to me.

making suggestions of how you look good doesn’t HAVE to be a negative?

though i can see how you might take it that way given some of your other experiences which do sound bad.

they must be perfect or you dump them is pretty binary.

if your current partner is otherwise as good guy and you care for him, what about talking over with him the things he says that make you feel bad and whether he can change them (and maybe he doesn’t mean what you believe he does?)

you can always dump him later if you want to.

it’s true it’s not our job to educate them. But it’s also true there’s aren’t enough thoughtful enlightened men out there. There are lots that are decent but thoughtless.

is it worth a go at asking him to think more deeply on what he says and change his approach to how he comments on your attractiveness?

It's hard to explain. The 3 strikes thing. The first one or two are amber flags I suppose. Things that I don't consider to be a dumping offence but that I put on my mental blackboard. Since everyone I've ever dated has done it in one way or another, I just assumed it was normal to a degree and that other women just rolled their eyes and ignored.

Some I have dumped straight away. But the man I was too old for, it was fine for the first few months. Really good I fact. Then he took me away for my 40th birthday and it didn't feel right but I couldn't put finger on why. Then I noticed him turning to look at every younger women who passed us when he hadn't before. Then headed a comment on the perfectly ordinary appearance of a woman about 10 years older than me. I picked him up on that and he told me he was struggling with dating an 'older woman' (he was mid 40s) so I dumped him. That all happened within the space of 2 about weeks.

It's just been constant.

And, when my self esteem was at its highest is when I found it was the worst. Men seemed to think I was strong enough to hear it or deserved to be taken down a peg or two.

It's not making comments on how I look good but a few times he has commented on other women he finds sexy and asked me to dress up like them.

He says I look nice but he wouldn't be meeting any of those women akd asking them to dress like me or look more like me. Let's put it that way!

I do think I have become especially sensitive to it. But any suggestion feels like a criticism and I've just completely shut down.

All I can think of is how much effort he has to put into being with me because I'm not quite good enough as I am. Or how he'd enjoy/want sex with me more if I was more attractive/sexier/dressed differently.

I can't work out anymore what to trust or believe.

is it worth a go at asking him to think more deeply on what he says and change his approach to how he comments on your attractiveness?

The only problem with that is thatni feel he's shown his hand now and I'll always be wondering what he really means or is really thinking. I think I'd rather have the unfiltered version rather than the carefully curated one. At least it's honest.

It’s not you, the only thing you are doing wrong is picking the wrong men! What draws you to the men you date?

You are attracting and attracted to narcissists, or men who are not emotionally or psychologically available to you, men who are misogynistic deep down in their core, men who dont hesitate to find your vulnerability and hit you there.

I think you need to find out what it is in men like this that you are attracted to and how you are missing the red flags initially. Look back at relationships in your childhood, see if you can identify a pattern.

God all sorts of things.

I get on with them, we have things in common and we have a laugh generally. I find them attractive.

I don't really have a physical type. It's made no difference whether they were confident or less so (I don't find arrogance attractive), educated or uneducated, professional or manual, same socio-econimic background or different, same music/film tastes or different. Usually similar politically or at least compatible.

It's important to me that they have their own friends, hobbies, life outside of a relationship. I'm very wary so I have to be pretty sure of them before I'll date them. They've been friends of friends, men I've let through hobbies.

But, without fail, they prove themselves to be like this.

Gimme a sec I'll read it and then get back to you x

Oh, it's not you. You're dumping the men who do this. Are they similar somehow? It's weird!

To answer your questions - no, I haven't had men do this. Yes, they've commented if someone is attractive sometimes but then I do as well (probably more than they have and it's conversational not an attack on their appearance).

I really feel for you. It sounds awful 😣

Right, how about we put the whole dating thing to the side, and see if we can find a place/work/volunteering where you'll be valued for your worth as a person first and foremost?

Honestly, I'm entirely too sure that dating someone should be your end all be all. It's not productive going through life and doing the same thing over and over again.

How about some form of love that's not strictly limited to romance? There's more to life than romantic love tbh

It really isn't you OP.
I am not by any means attractive. But I have never had a man do that insulting comparison thing.
I just thing they wouldn't dare! I'd slap them round the face if they did. How rude.
This isn't even a dating thing, who goes round telling people they are not as pretty as that person over there? It is bizarre. I've never heard of someone doing this.

i am so sorry that you have experienced it.

so @EveryNameIThinkOfIsTaken i reckon there is a combination of things going on here.

some of it is men / these men. I only internet dates when I was younger (under 30) when you get barraged by older men and it was weird and overwhelming.

i gather there’s a flip and it’s starts going the other way. So if I was single now at mid 40s i gather it’s hard to find men your own age as so many of them are internet dating women 10 years younger.

i know you said you’re meeting them in real life, but if any of them have tried some of those sites and apps that might be skewing their opinions and expectations. Which sucks.

but it does also sound like PERHAPS with your current partner you are likely to ruminate and over interpret any comment he makes on your attractiveness.

whereas I just don’t think that much about what DH says. Reflecting, he’s very respectful in that I don’t hear him talking about other women’s attractiveness much.

He compliments me, and has good taste so he does sometimes comment or encourage me to wear certain things. He also buys me clothes as a birthday present quite often. He often chooses something I like but is also happy if I change it for something else (eg last birthday he boughit me a dress and I changed it for a denim jacket). He also gives practical stuff (cycle helmet one year).

earlier in our relationship I felt he was trying to shape my style too much. He’s probably more conservative in his tastes than me overall. We had a massive row and I nearly broke up with him over it. But we had a big heart to heart and came to understand each other.

he really took on board my point of view and some of the clothes he’s given me since really show him reflecting back my taste. And I love him for that.

so I think yes it’s worth reflecting on the men you are choosing (but also go easy on yourself here - single men in mid life are a tough crowd)

but also how much this is your own fears and insecurities from earlier experiences which you are seeing in anything a current partner says?

i assume my partner et does find other women and younger women attractive. But he’s too tactful to say.

i find other men attractive but again don’t talk to him about that out of respect.

i do (still) find him attractive and I hope / assume he me. But also after 15 years and kids together our bond is about much more than that.

no other man could trump that for me and I hope he feels the same.

our bond isn’t about where we each feel the other ranks on the hotness scale?

One of them asked of I'd seen a particular TV programme. I said I hadn't. He said I should that it was really good. I said I'd probably give it a go. He said my personality reminded him of one of the characters and to see if I could guess which.

So I watched it I could guess which he meant immediately. That was fine. I told him I'd seen it, we talked about it and he said. Yeah, I think she's really pretty.

I donall of that. I don't volunteer currently because i don't have the time with pressures of work and I'm a single parent to a teen who's struggling a bit at the moment (post lockdown stuff I think).

I have a demanding but fulfilling career and whilst I'd change some of the bureaucratic nonsense, I love the people I work with.

I have hobbies that keeper busy and get me out and doing stuff/meeting people. I am happy in own company.

I'm not desperate to be in a relationship. I've spent far more time single over the past 10 years than I have dating!

I have a lovely home, a small but good family, a few dear friends. A relationship is the only thing that insisting and I'd be ok being single for the rest of my life. It's just the experiences I have have left wondering if there's something about me that I just can't see.

I can tell the difference between a genuine comment about another person and a direct/indirect comparison. That's the thing.

@EveryNameIThinkOfIsTaken "I have a lovely home, a small but good family, a few dear friends. A relationship is the only thing that insisting and I'd be ok being single for the rest of my life. It's just the experiences I have have left wondering if there's something about me that I just can't see."

👏Then I applaud you for appreciating all the good things in your life and taking that important step in seeking clarity on things you need clarity on