I'm being triangulated with another woman

[vampirelover]

warning - therapy speak incoming. Referencing Karpman drama triangle 😁

I'm posting this because it's bothering me a lot but I'm also anticipating responses that miss the point but oh well
My partner is ND and not very good at friendships. He's lovely, kind and caring and has codependent tendencies due to an abusive childhood. He's fairly emotionally illiterate despite having lots of therapy and sleep walks into unhealthy relationship patterns because he doesn't see warning signs.
on the other hand I am not a therapist but in a similar field, overthink most interactions and relationships that I have and analyse everything. Despite this we get on very well!!

for the past 18 months he has had a friendship with another woman. I like her, and I 100% believe he's not having an affair and (almost certainly) wouldn't. However, they are in a codependent relationship. They have the same ND and same MH condition and she isn't doing that well, whereas he sees himself (I'm not convinced) as 'better' and the voice of experience.

they used to work together so saw each other 5 days a week, and that was when they interacted. Since she left her MH has nosedived and he is trying to rescue her. She is typical victim (won't do anything herself) and he is typical rescuer (wants to fix things for her, feels responsible for her) but I can also see that this dynamic serves them both well due to codependency. I do think she is probably in love with him a bit too. She's married but has positioned her husband as persecuter which my DP has totally bought into. I feel sorry for the man myself, he might be useless but I don't think he gets a chance to support her really.

this has been bubbling for a few months and I've tried to find a way to raise it without a) accusing him of having an affair by accident b) looking like a jealous loon c) ruining his only friendship but it all came out last night. I explained the drama triangle and his habitual roles and he sort of got it but frankly I felt he was making me into the persecutor and I resent it. I don't want any part of this triangle and I want him to see what's happening and take action to deal with it. Unfortunately he is also passive (see abusive childhood) and avoids conflict rather than facing it. So I don't know what I want really.

please dont tell me he's definitely having an affair. I'm 99% sure he's not. That's not what it's about. But is it an emotional affair? Maybe. I can't tell him not to see her. So how do I move forward taking responsibility for my self only and not getting drawn in? Also I'm not going to leave him, we are getting married, he's the love of my life, he's a good man, just screwed up.

thank you!

I've been in that position myself, so I know how you can slip into it.

With regards to you seeing him as dependable, it may be just the way you phrased it but it comes across as you can rely on him to do what you ask him to, rather than rely on him independently to have your back. There is a big difference between the two, how long have you been together?

There are several stages in a relationship where this may be problematic.

After the first 2 years, this is the infatuation stage and can be very intense in ND people, there was an thread discussing this before in relation to ADHD (which my partner has, hence the interest) an excellent post pointed out that ADHD people are prone to fixation on certain hobbies and projects and when you get into a relationship with someone with ADHD that project is YOU for the first couple of years.

Pregnancy and child rearing years, this very often causes a power imbalance in the relationship where previously independent women are now financially and emotionally and even sometimes physically (if you have a C-section for example) reliant on their partners. It's a time where you may well need support and are unlikely to have the time to monitor and adjust his relationships outside of your home.

Future caring responsibilities, you may need to care for elderly or disabled relatives in the future and taking that on while also managing another adults relationships could be tough.

The above is all assuming that over the course of your relationship he will continue to do what you ask him to, people sometimes fall into bad habits or stop making the effort when they get comfortable.

As I'm sure you can guess it would be a no for me, but I've had a couple of toxic relationships with ND/MH people so its bitter experience. That isn't to say I don't think anyone should date anyone with ND or MH struggles, my current partner is ND and the relationship is great and has been so through children, bereavement and some dips in my own MH.

Pp are absolutely right about you being his saviour. You can't fix his trauma and mental health. Your needs matter as much as his and his trauma and mental health shouldn't be reasons why he gets to do what he wants.

If you marry him then you'll have a lifetime of this. You will be more like a parent than a partner and that's unsustainable.

I understand that he's ND and possibly can't see that he's in EA territory but do you want a lifetime of having to manage this sort of thing ? This won't be the last time that he does this and I can hear how much you're understandably sick of it.

I'm not saying that ND people can't be great partners (I am ND myself ) but did he do any work after the first time ? For example sit down and ask you questions like what specific actions turned the friendship inappropriate? As a ND person he might need "coaching " like how often friends text so he doesn't make the mistake again. Many people wouldn't want a lifetime of that. I saw a thread where people discussed life with their spouses with ASD. That might provide you with some specific support.

I want things to change and for the friendship to recede into a more normal dynamic. I have to accept though that I can't control that.

Normal means neurotypical though. For ND friendships the dynamic might feel normal to them (and not be unhealthy) but strange because of partners. Your needs should matter as much as his though so don't feel bad having to define normal dynamic in terms of rules he might need like normal friends would text no more than X times a day or whatever

Yes this is a really good point
the thing is that he loves contact with people but does most of it via messaging. So it feels totally normal to him to text his friends daily. This is partly why he's lost friends I think! He can be a bit much. Of course as a lover daily texting is usually lovely and attentive but as a friend it's either too much or it's boundary crossing and confusing. That's what happened with the other woman and he didn't realise that he was sending incorrect messages by texting her daily. The ADHD intensity and 'special interests' is really relevant here. We have been together more than 4 years so we are past the infatuation stage so that doesn't worry me too much but I also hear what everyone is saying that this won't change and I need to draw my lines and assert myself.

Why have you waited so long to assert yourself?

I think your user name is interesting.
What do you get out of being with him? Do you feel better because he is a little bit broken/lost/confused/over steps?

Nothing in the way you have described this man would be attractive. No friends, does not understand boundaries, oversteps, intrusive, gets fixated. I am really wondering why you are with him?

Hiding in plain sight.
You will never be the only women he has eyes for, you will never be the top priority, both together maybe, but not just you.

You can do better.

The username is just a really old one I never used (when I was into a series of vampire books!) that I use for anon threads, nothing in it.

I'm sure I've made him sound dreadful to anyone else but clearly he isn't, otherwise I wouldn't be in love with him! I don't need to list his good points do I? He has loads, enough to outweigh the bad in spades so far! Nobody is perfect after all :)

as to why it's taken me so long - I don't know. Lack of confidence maybe. I wasn't sure exactly what I was uncomfortable about. I needed to talk it through with him to get there and I was nervous about it I guess. I didn't want to express myself wrongly.

Nobody is perfect but he has told you this woman is a 'little bit' in love with him, how much more evidence do you need that this 'friendship' has taken a very unhealthy turn, he messages her daily and they are in your words in a 'codependent' relationship. Why is it important how you express your discomfort? You should be very uncomfortable, he is playing with fire, you know, she knows it and your relationship is at great risk.

It sounds like you don’t trust your feelings as a guide to help you make decisions. Obviously we don’t unquestionably rely on feeling but there is a lot of realisation and understanding that the dynamic is all wrong too. I think you are afraid of being alone more than staying in an unhealthy relationship.

He didn't tell me that, he would deny it, but I am of that opinion.

You are getting sound advice here OP.

Boy are you being mugged off here as the teenagers say and settling for absolute scraps.

That you actually think he is marriage material is really very sad.

I'd have a good hard look at why you think this clusterfxxk situation is all you deserve.

Either way this is not a dynamic to ever consider inflicting on a child.

Keep re reading the excellent advice you are being given to reflect on.

Good luck.

So you know she has feelings for him. Honestly why on earth haven't you simply said to him 'I am uncomfortable - cut contact with this woman or we are finished. I am no one's second best'

The fact this is a pattern of behaviour is not great op.

Or is it because you know his next 'crush/friendship/obsession' will be along soon enough?
Maybe this woman is less threatening potentially than a future infatuation? This is messed up and misguided.

Whatever his good points, such a toxic and unhealthy man will never be good for you, no matter how you dress it up or the excuses you make for his poor behaviour. He has zero respect for you, and is happy to run the risk of losing you to keep these infatuations going.

Honestly, you'd make your life a whole lot more straightforward if you stopped with the labels and psychological analysis and kept things simple.
In a nutshell: Your partner is close to and supporting a friend who has MH problems. You think she's got inappropriate feelings for him. You don't think he'd have a physical affair but you don't like the emotional closeness to another woman. You don't trust him not to inadvertently cross boundaries.
Advice: Tell him in simple terms (without all the analysis and theorising) what behaviour he is exhibiting that you would like him to change and why, and the consequences to your relationship if he continues (assuming there will be any).

This is nice simple advice. I like it, thank you!

OP I think you've got yourself into a position of (over) analysing and understanding why your partner is the way he is. Sometimes getting this deeply invested in the analysis of the 'why' is a way of trying to make sense of/gain control of a situation that's making us feel unhappy and powerless. The bottom line is - regardless of why he is the way he is - does who he is make you happy? Because if he's making you unhappy, does understanding why he's doing this make you any less unhappy?

I'm going to go against the grain here. I'm not sure he is actually doing anything wrong. I'm in a relationship, but I have friends (male and female) I text every day, individually and in whatsapp groups, and have in-depth conversations over message with, I guess we communicate more over whatsapp than we see each other in person. I don't think that's particularly weird. I. don't think wanting to help someone going through a crisis is weird either.

I agree it's irritating when someone seems to continuously moan and do nothing to help themselves, I know someone like that as well, and I probably would feel similar to you in that he should stop trying so hard to help when it's clear this woman won't take any positive action. But I think the ND is an important aspect here as if they both are, it's likely they take each other at face value and there isn't an underlying romantic dynamic to their communication.

I agree you can't ask him to stop speaking to her – I wouldn't take kindly to having my friendships policed (has happened in the past, and I dumped the partner for several reasons but that was definitely one of them). But if this isn't working for you, you don't have to stay in the relationship. Maybe a calm talk with him about your frustrations with the effort he puts into this friendship while seemingly getting nothing back is the way to go, to encourage him to dial down contact but not lose the friendship completely.

You're welcome. Sometimes when we fall down the rabbit hole of focusing on the psychological context it becomes a smoke screen that obscures what we're really trying to achieve, which is often simply a change in behaviour.

Here's the central problem: you (and most of the contributors here) are ascribing NT motivations to somebody who's ND.

These things do not mix.

Consider his position: the entire world is difficult to communicate with. Everybody he meets, he has to struggle to fit himself into a box that says "NT" on the front, to avoid being socially rejected. That's an extremely hard thing to do, and it wears people down. He has this one friendship where he doesn't need to do that, and the solution is to make him get rid of that friendship?

That's a recipe for the end of your relationship, in my opinion, because it only fixes a symptom and not the core cause. The chances are, from the ND perspective, that he doesn't even see her as "a woman", but rather "a person who needs help that he can give".

First off, make sure that you explain how you feel with direct words and not implications. From what you've written, he's not going to just pick up on things (I'm very much the same). Talk it through as unemotionally as you can, as though you're trying to fix a problem with a washing machine.

Secondly, there's a reasonably high chance that he feels a sense of obligation and responsibility to help his friend. That's something that's not necessarily going to go away, but when you know it's there...you can plan for it. You can even offer to help, which may go some way to rectifying the situation from the inside, as it were.

Last...address the central problem: he finds it easier to talk to folk with his particular flavour of ND-ness. This is not unusual, and it's a direct consequence of being forced to mask with everybody else...including you. This is explicitly not because he doesn't trust you, and you shouldn't feel insulted by it; he's simply applying the things he's learned over the years in order to make you happy and make your life easier. The solution is for you both to work to make "home" a place where he can feel comfortable without masking (one wrinkle being that he may not even be aware of his own masking, just that some things aren't necessary when talking to ND people).

That's easier said than done, though; my wife was absolutely insistent that I stop masking when we found out that I'm autistic, but wasn't quite prepared for what that actually entailed. After a couple of years, we settled into a happy "medium place". I don't mask anywhere near as heavily as I used to, but I also know there are some traits which she finds hard to tolerate or understand, so I kind of half-mask just for her sake. Basically, if you want to go down this road, then both of you need to be aware that it's going to be a bit hit-or-miss with experimentation for a while.

Of course, take all of this in the context that I obviously don't know exactly what his traits are, and they may relate to his experience in a completely different way to mine and the folk I've heard similar issues from.

Thank you @xyhere

i agree that I'm looking at the issue with NT eyes and this is something that bobs its head up every now and again. We really don't view some things the same way at all! Honestly it doesn't matter to me if he sees her as a 'woman' (attractive) or just a person. I am most uncomfortable with her feelings if that makes sense. I feel anxious and undermined that he is spending so much energy on a woman who I think would want to have him if she could.
I need to be simpler and clearer about what I'm unhappy about and what I want to change. I am guilty sometimes of hoping or expecting him to work things out for himself that he isn't going to.

Well, you can take heart from the fact that you're definitely not the first couple to have this weird NT/ND dynamic.

I can absolutely guarantee that, when you explain where your problem lies, he'll be quite confused and come back with, "...but that's irrelevant, because...it doesn't matter?". Been there, done that, never came to a solid conclusion...and we're still both a little confused about some things ;)

It may actually come down to fixing her problem, which has two effects: reducing her need for his help and relieving him of the responsibility to help her.

All I can say really, though, is good luck...and I hope it all works out well for you both!

I'm not going to leave him, we are getting married, he's the love of my life, he's a good man, just screwed up.

omg.

Some of what you are writing is making me feel really uncomfortable but I just wanted to quote you here 'I feel anxious and undermined that he is spending so much energy on a woman who I think would want to have him if she could' and ask how it would be ok even if you didn't have this added extra of her possibly being interested?
It's ok to ask that the focus of a relationship is on each other. Sometimes I can be a gossip, and my husband isn't and generally when I start talking about someone else (and in my own mind I think I am being caring and compassionate) my husband will respond by telling me he isn't interested. I have pondered this for many years and have come to the (uncomfortable) conclusion that he has better boundaries than me. That's all. It doesn't make me more compassionate if I am coming home to relay stuff to him, neither does it in this situation with your partner. I make a huge effort to tone it down with him and I think that trying to chip away at my need to gossip has made me think more deeply about why I was doing it anyway. Take care OP.

If you’re not going to leave him then so be it

thos is the second time he’s got way too close to another woman and now you’ve intellectualised his behaviour and outright said you won’t leave

no disrespectful, truly, but maybe you just need to find a way to be cool with playing second fiddle to his passing infatuations because there’s no repercussions regardless

you just dress it up as his ND needs etc etc doesn’t understand etc etc
essentially he’s a good guy but being led astray
hmm yeah I don’t agree

but if you won’t leave then meh, ok tell him to stop but he’ll do it again because this is already the ‘again’

This sounds like an exhausting and unfulfilling relationship. I couldn’t be with someone who I had to guide like a parent through life, because he was apparently unable to work anything out for himself. Surely, the first two times he had inappropriate relationships with women and you told him how terrible it was for you, he realised what he’d done wrong and would have avoided doing it again? And yet here we are. Is he a functioning and capable adult or not?