The stigma of staying with a cheater after affair

[Savvysausage]

I figured there is a place for a thread like this, for survivors of infidelity that have gone on to save their marriage. MN users are quick to point to the negatives of staying with a cheat, but I think the experience of this in a relationship is not the worst thing that could happen, despite the shocking PTSD, I think it does make us stronger as people.

It's also really disrespectful to say anything bad about the OW on MN...like the person that was hoping to break up your family unit. If you want to say something about them to ease your mind, go ahead, this is a place you can vent.

Now, keeping it all separate, and looking at your partner alone without bitching about the OW, can people offer advice as to how they stayed in relationship with the twisted brat and how they rationalised this? What helped them move on.

Interesting hearing you talking about how you have "chosen" to stay with someone who had an affair - as if it was your choice. Do you ever think about the fact that it was a joint choice, or that you're fortunate to have been given that choice?

OP everyone always says how brave it is to walk away but i think it takes alot more strength to stay in a situation like this. Your relationship is never the same again, mentally it messes you up and on top of that the person that was cheated on is expected to do the hard work and 'put the effort in' too to get the relationship back 'on track'

But it was the OP's choice. She made her choice based on the conditions of the situation. If he had not wanted to stay with her, she couldn't have made the same decision, because the conditions would have been different.

Thinking about how fortunate one is is entirely different to your first point.

Not just OP - all of you saying that you chose to stay with your partner are also telling us that your partner chose to stay with you. Do you think of that as a good thing; do you think of yourself as fortunate because you too had a say in the matter (or have any feeling about it)? I didn't see myself as having any say in the matter; he'd chosen his OW. I feel that made things easier for me in some ways.

It's not really 'surviving infidelity' is it? Everyone who is cheated on survives. Some of us choose to end the relationship.

If they cheat once and you forgive them, they'll do it again.

I think everyone can individually survive infidelity, but this term can also apply to the relationship, which doesn’t always. And it’s a pretty blanket statement to say they’ll do it again. Is that based on research? Yes, there are serial cheaters out there, and there are also people who cheat for a whole range of reasons (not that any are justifiable).

I know many women who have chosen to stay with their partners after infidelity. They've all done it again. And according to research, they're three times more likely to do it again in subsequent relationships than someone who hasn't ever cheated. I don't think anyone has researched how many men continue being unfaithful multiple times in the same relationship. I guess they assume that mostly it's the end of the relationship

Thank to everyone so far. Having a truly crap day here, like at the time of writing this post I was all revved up into staying is the right thing to do. But today I am so annoyed about it and just want to run away and live a different life. It's been nearly 2 years and I just want to switch off the switch and not think about this shit ever again. Is there anything that helped you not to think about it and permanently move on? Like I have a question that has been buzzing around my head: 'How could you knowing that you actions were jeopardising you living with your kids for the end of days, do this?' One evening I fought very hard not to blurt this out as it leads to pointless discussions all over again, but then last night I did say it and he said that we've been through this all before, and it's late...Basically he was not going to engage with it. I told him to go to another room as I honestly could not continue talking to an unresponsive plank. He did and I intend for him to live there. It always happens when he's about to have time off. I dread him truly. It's awful.

@80s I am glad that my husband wanted to stay and rebuild the marriage he had broken, that he finally saw the true value of our relationship and fake value of the affair, but I don’t think ‘fortunate’ that he stayed is a word I would use, no.
You don’t feel relief or lucky when you find out your cheating husband doesn’t want to leave, you just know that you can now choose what to do next.
At that point everything sucks to put it mildly. I remember feeling no joy in seeing him broken and sobbing and hearing him beg to stay. I was not surprised at all that he did, because I know who I am and he’d have been a total twat to throw it away.
I was not ‘fortunate’ that he wanted to stay with me and end the affair, he should never have had one in the first place so I would have dropped dead before I felt any gratitude to him at all to be ‘chosen’ as such, screw that.
I should never have been considered a ‘choice’ because there should never have been one, if that makes sense. His loss if he left. I never once thought ‘how lucky am I? He chose me!’ He’s not some adored God at that point, awaiting his decision, far from it, he’s a total shithead.
I know my worth. His OW was much younger and more attractive than me, but her major problem was always that she just wasn’t me. He dodged a bullet and knows it.
After his infidelity I made my own choices and it was up to him what he did but following his wanting to stay, it was my choice, my rules or he knew where the door was. I never begged or cried, I confronted him calmly, he admitted it and I just asked him what he was going to do. He said he was amazed at how ‘reasonable’ I was being, to which I informed him that I was not going to demean myself in front of him, he could sort his shit out or leave, but there would be no way back if he did.
He is fortunate that he got a second chance and had he’s bloody lucky to have me at all. I know my own worth, I believe good people can do incredibly bad things for a variety of reasons and am prepared to believe that people can change and learn from poor choices and grow. He’s fortunate to be able to have the luxury of doing that. I took the attitude that if he couldn’t see the value of what he had then he could sod off and no loss to me in that case whatsoever. I was always the only choice and still am. “Fortunate” would have been met with ‘pfffffttt’ at the very least.

@Savvysausage Have you had marriage counselling? It sounds as though there are still some unresolved things to talk through. I found this article/video helpful when it came to the decision making process (I really struggled to comprehend how he could throw away a 16 year relationship and family just like that): www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/infidelity-betrayed-spouse-were-they-thinking-of-me

My husband left for the OW when DD3 was 14wks old. I now realise it’s the kindest thing he did for me.

@Thewookiemustgo I would have hated feeling indebted to my exh. Someone I know took his wife back, and I got the impression he thought he was lucky she came back, which was a real shame as he was clearly the catch out of the two of them even without her being the unfaithful one. It looks like a weird position to be in, having the choice, but that choice depending on their choice. I think I'd have found that hard to stomach.

@Savvysausage affair recovery takes 2-5 years whether you stay or go. Obsessive thoughts about the affair really do weaken with time.

But, your husband sounds dismissive. This is not good. It sounds like you're doing the heavy lifting to stay and keep the marriage together, struggling with triggers which he is unable to deal with. That is not what reconciliation looks like.

Have you read 'how to help my spouse heal from my affair?' This really helped me understand what I was looking for from my husband and it helped him understand the trauma. Affair recovery videos are also brilliant at helping you unpick true remorse from regret. 'Just good friends' is also a great book.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not asking you to make all the effort here but knowing what you're looking for in him is helpful when deciding whether to stay or go.

Frank Pittman's work on infidelity helped me understand the nature of affairs and how little it has to do with the affair partner in many many affairs.

Honestly it sounds stupid but knowledge is power.

How do you think his wife felt? At least OW had the choice to or not get involved with a married man. The OW is an accomplice in a massive deception perpetrated by the husband on the wife, denying her of agency. I have little sympathy for someone with such poor self-esteem it is only improved by hurting another woman and her family.

I think its easier to take a hard stance on this in some circumstances than others.
Still relatively young with the motivation to, and a realistic chance of, starting over is different from being older and your priority being to hang onto the life you've spent decades building.
Still in love and hurt beyond endurance by the betrayal is different from more like friends these days, and not that fussed if he's sleeping with someone else, as long as its not you.
Awareness of your own fallibility and that there but for the grace of God, is different from believing you'd never cheat no matter what.
Believing your partner to be 'the one' is different from being in a lacklustre mediocre situation where he was just there at the right time.
The ability to balance the cheating against decades of care and support is different from it being just the latest and worst of many ways he falls short.
There are many reasons people stay, and as long as the betrayed partner has done a proper cost benefit analysis, rather than acting from some misguided loyalty to partner or institution, its as valid a decision as leaving.

I'm 4 months on from d day and have chosen to stay. The first 3 pages of this thread confirmed to me the stigma I've felt at my decision and I've felt incredibly isolated as I've not felt able to tell anyone irl due to this exact attitude of being seen as a mug for staying. I should say that before it happened to me I would have said 'run for the hills' to woman in my situation.
To me leaving would have been far far easier than staying. I could have remained the victim rather than having to look at myself and take responsibility for my part in the state of our relationship- all whilst having the moral high ground of not reacting in the totally destructive way that he did.
My head is screwed and will remain that way for a long while - I know that and so does dh. Having a lack of female support is also hard.
One bonus was the hysterical bonding phase (sadly now over) made me realise I am actually still a serial being and not dead from the neck down that I had genuinely thought!!

I wish mine would go have affair then I would not have to entertain him.

Have you read / listened to Esther Perel's take on this? From an article about Infidelity and the new psychology of shame - here's an extract :

Rethinking Infidelity: A Talk For Anyone Who Has Ever Loved. Perel eloquently describes the psychological and emotional complexities that lead to infidelity, how affairs have changed over time, and how healing can take place. She also addresses the current climate of judging betrayed partners when they choose to stay.

The new shame is staying when you can leave. For centuries women couldn’t leave but now they can (the thinking goes), so why would anyone stay and ‘take it’?” Perel goes on to explain, “A marriage is not the sum total of this one transgression. Who know how many less visible acts of betrayal have existed in the relationship? What if the affair happened in the context or years of sexual refusal, distance, or disinterest, which can also be construed as a betrayal of marital vows.

I asked Perel what a betrayed spouse should say to friends who judge them for staying.

“Tell your friends or family members they are not the ones who have to live with the consequences of this choice. Tell them you expect them to be supportive, not to immerse themselves in your story as if it was their own.”

This article talks about Surviving infidelity and being careful about telling your friends about it by a relationship counsellor, because of the pressure and shaming if you stay. She discusses reasons why other women might react this way. She says that most relationship counsellors do not believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater", and suggests you confide first in a small number of friends who had shown evidence of being non-judgemental and not anxious people.

OMG another DM reporter looking for a story?

@5128gap good post.

There's always going to be a million reasons why each betrayal is like no other, nevertheless betrayal by anyone in any relationship whether it be family, friends, lovers or marriage is devastating.

If you choose to betray someone you must always look over your shoulder.
Many marriages cannot survive betrayal regardless of whether you stay together or not.
The dynamic of the relationship will be forever broken in some way.

Forgiveness with an undertone of hatred is what I've seen.

@80s I never saw it as hard to stomach in that sense. The secret second life nature of the infidelity had taken away my agency, but discovery put it right back in my lap. I honestly felt like I was in charge of what happened next, not him. I wasn’t waiting with bated breath to see what he said, I never felt like I was on the back foot somehow, discovery bizarrely gave me power. I saw that without my knowledge he’d felt he had the ‘upper hand’ in the marriage in a way, and discovery left him finally having to face the reality of the train wreck he’d made of his life and look me in the eye from the low point he’d sunk to. His panic made it clear that the position of power had now changed, I knew now and could choose. He knew I now had a valid choice and wanted me to choose him and made that plain.
On discovery though to be honest I was more concerned about my kids, what shit timing it all was, rather than wondering what I would do even if he decided to stay. It was all crazy and surreal to be going about my life as normal one day then looking at the absolute wreckage of it the next.
All I could think about at the time was that one of our DC had very important exams coming up in a matter of weeks. Whatever happened they needed protecting from it all for at least the duration of exam time, life chances were about to get ruined, I wasn’t going to let that happen, even if he left I was going to say he was abroad for work for a few weeks until the exams were done. I didn’t like doing that but whether the marriage was over or not, it was definitely not worth the future ramifications of blowing it up there and then. I still have no idea how I did it.
Maybe he was the fortunate one because my immediate reaction was to protect the DC at all costs, even at huge costs to myself at the time.

What he did in the intervening time showed me he was serious about staying and sorting himself out. He’s lucky he got that time to show that and has his DC’s exams to thank for it. Seeing his seriousness and the things he did and changed to prove he meant it was when I think I really made my decision to give it a go.

Gosh @crochetandacuppa thank you for sharing that Esther Parrel article, how very interesting, it has given me many insights into my own situation.

We went through a crisis more that 12 years ago and decided to stay together. I always thought out of a crisis can come a better understanding and relationship. And this has happened, although healing took a good couple of years.

I will read more of her work. I am a proponent of not feeling guilty or ashamed of wanting to explore staying together and improving the relationship after infidelity. At the beginning I did wonder whether this was the correct course of action and oscillated wildly between staying it kicking DH out. When friends are going through awful, painful times like I did I can sympathise and empathise and have a different insight into what is possible when working towards staying together.

I think it is a symptom of one's own vulnerability such as immaturity, or propensity to seek validation, or having low self esteem at a particular time of their life and feeling shit about their job/ circumstance

It's total naivety about the mentality of many people, mostly male people, and subsequent behaviour to think that this is behind even half (?) of cheating.

Cheats gain the advantages of polygamy (usually polygny) alongside the advantages of monogamy.

There are often no motivations other than a sexual opportunity they don't want to turn down (in most cases they've engineered it). Men cheat opportunistically for extra sex/novel sex every day of the week.

Some people even apparently have a genetic predisposition to cheating.

Men will pull out all the old lines about feeling disconnected and feeling ignored and feeling unseen and wifey not doing abc and depression and blah blah blah. Be Suze they are lined that work to keep them in their marriage/LTR. Just like the cheater script lines worked to get them an OW.

*Because they are lines that work