The stigma of staying with a cheater after affair

[Savvysausage]

I figured there is a place for a thread like this, for survivors of infidelity that have gone on to save their marriage. MN users are quick to point to the negatives of staying with a cheat, but I think the experience of this in a relationship is not the worst thing that could happen, despite the shocking PTSD, I think it does make us stronger as people.

It's also really disrespectful to say anything bad about the OW on MN...like the person that was hoping to break up your family unit. If you want to say something about them to ease your mind, go ahead, this is a place you can vent.

Now, keeping it all separate, and looking at your partner alone without bitching about the OW, can people offer advice as to how they stayed in relationship with the twisted brat and how they rationalised this? What helped them move on.

It’s nonsense, generally what women are told when their husband is cheating is to focus on him, many times they post blaming the woman, whilst forgiving the man and carrying on. That’s seriously unhealthy and nit addressing that he cheated, that’s what women are told. They can hate the woman all they want.

im also jot sure what the op is doing but it reads like research for an article,

@girlmom21 Truly, yes please for anyone wishing to vent.

Mine was horrid and played a huge part in trying to tear us apart, despite DH making a dreadful choice and being a dick for cheating. But the OW also was unnerving and I am so pleased she did not get what she wanted as she truly tried very hard, with it being an exit affair. I just think MN is a place one must never say anything negative about the OW, ever, but I would go as far to say, mine was a bitch from hell and I celebrate each day my kids don't have to spend a single day with her. This thought alone brightens up any moment of weakness in my resolve to stay in this.

@Wisteriaroundthedoor quite, you are right, and I love the way you put this:

It’s nonsense, generally what women are told when their husband is cheating is to focus on him, many times they post blaming the woman, whilst forgiving the man and carrying on. That’s seriously unhealthy and nit addressing that he cheated, that’s what women are told. They can hate the woman all they want.

No, I ma not writing an article, yet again, I just think it's unreasonable not to be able to vent without looking like a sore loser here on MN. I think allowing the disgust for the men, the cheating and the OW are all justified ways of coping and also very important ways of coping.

Oh I thought you were saying women shouldn't but now I realise you're saying women are told they shouldn't

Totally @girlmom21

At no point do I justify my man's part in this.

But gotta say she was a dreadful piece of work/ shit that he could not shake of, as when he broke it off she had to reveal, many months after. Bitch from hell indeed. It's like if he could not come out on his own she was going to extract him and ruin his life.

When my ex left me for another woman I was devastated and would have done anything to stay with him.

Fast forward a few years and I'm happier, stronger and more successful than I would have been had we stayed together. It remains hard coparenting our DD's as he's difficult at every opportunity but aside from that I am so happy and strong. Cheesy I know but I am. And I hope to be a solid role model for my DD's.

Wow, this is particularly cruel. Anyone who has been betrayed by a partner has survived infidelity, whether they stay or leave. It’s traumatic whichever way you slice it, and it requires some serious healing.

My partner cheated on me with a woman from work, I was out the door with our two children within two months (as soon as I got a house). The trust was broken and there's no way I was dealing with that for the rest of my life.....he was a lazy, self centered, narcissistic and emotionally abusive idiot anyway.

She was hurt. Id guess.

One article (which is pretty old now) I found helpful/reassuring was this one by Esther Perel, who analysed couples who had experienced infidelity and what their relationships looked like a few years down the line: www.psychotherapynetworker.org/article/after-storm

Staying is just as much a valid choice as leaving.

As for the stigma. Id say all routes forward contain stigma to some extent.

Divorce carries a stigma. Some people think it is catching and back away. I live in a 'naice' area and am one of only handful that doesnt have a glittery left hand. Lots of curious looks and insensitive questions about being a co parent. Lots of insensitive questions about choosing not to be married to partner now.

I still wouldnt change it. But im just making the point that its a shit situation either way.

You are right to stop and think because to move forwards you have to be really sure you have tried everything and have no doubts. I could see that in my relationship the affair was a symptom and not a cause. Thinks had been going downhill for years. And we had our heads in the sand. I feel no anger or regret. Just sadness for what might have been. We coparent brilliantly and the kids are really happy and well adjusted and have welcomed new adults into their lives over the years.

It's like if he could not come out on his own she was going to extract him and ruin his life.
Perhaps she felt like he had ruined her life, by promising her a future he was not actually going to deliver?
Would you have preferred her to say nothing, so that you didn't know what he was doing behind your back? My exh had a couple of shorter affairs I didn't find out about until I discovered the one that broke us up. He got away with the first one, so had a couple more. What if your partner had done the same thing?

You now have an honest relationship in which you both know what happened and are willing to work on the damage. Isn't that a good thing? Would you have rather lived in ignorance of his affair, not knowing his secrets, not having an honest conversation about what you want from one another, not working on whatever it was that made him cheat on you?

I've done both, stayed and left! Anyone who thinks staying is the easier option is absolutely crazy! Its like having salt rubbed into your wounds day after day! Much easier to leave and leave it all behind you.

@crochetandacuppa spot on re the ‘dumb ones’ comment.
That comment alone answers OP’s question about ‘why stigma’.

A woman can commit a violent crime and spawn a whole “Be kind” campaign on social media, (I am not criticising the ‘be kind’ campaign, merely highlighting the double standards in that it was the shaming which was being called out in that case but it seems ok to do it in this case) but stay with a cheating partner and ‘be kind’ does not apply to you, you deserve shaming. You are dumb, weak, have no self respect, have colluded with your own minimisation, have no boundaries, are deluded, are a bad role model to your children… on it goes.
It’s been suggested that stigma is a good thing as it helps prevent women making the choice to stay. Stigma serves no purpose other than to shame people. Shame and stigma diminish and erode, punish those already in difficult circumstances facing tough choices. Any shame after infidelity should be for the unfaithful partner to bear as they reflect on their actions, not the betrayed.
Betrayed partners rarely stay as passive doormats, they stay knowing their choices can be reversed at any point.
Sometimes leaving is absolutely the right choice, staying with serial cheats is a recipe for misery, but not all infidelity situations are the same and just because it was the right choice for one person does not mean it is the right choice for someone else. Even in those circumstances I would advise someone to leave but wouldn’t shame them for staying, no doubt they’d have their reasons, advice is one thing but shaming is quite another.
I’m very glad for those who left and are happy and feel strong now, they made a good choice in their circumstances and have made a good life for themselves which is lovely to hear, but it is actually possible to choose to stay and feel strong and happy and have a good life and a good relationship after infidelity. Just because one person cannot imagine that to be true doesn’t mean it isn’t.
Some eye watering comments on here adding to an already unnecessary stigma.
Judgment and shame are not great at any time of year but at Christmas and New Year it is often very difficult for many struggling with their relationships and choices and the suicide rate goes up. Shaming does not help, again I reference the ‘be kind’ campaign. Whatever our opinions or advice, let’s do it kindly and not judge and shame people for the difficult decisions they take when their lives just fell apart.

Staying is horrible, splitting is also horrible, especially if you have children. For all the proclamations on here of people being stronger, having a better life when they split, statistics tell you that most women are made poorer by divorce, that lots of children lose touch with a parent.

Being a single parent can be utterly grim, I've done it, I know. The more children you have, the harder it is. It's a very lonely life. If the marriage was otherwise OK apart from the affair, then it's a very hard path to take.

Staying with a man who openly prefers another woman is also utterly grim. This is also a very lonely life.

In reality, after an affair there is no "correct" path that leads to a happier life for everyone. There is just a variety of shit options. I don't judge anyone for deciding which particular shit option they want to choose.

I think MN has quite old fashioned view points on affairs and women that stay. It's sad and I agree with other posters that it's really NOT the place for support.

Affairs are not a marriage problem they're a cheat problem. I'm not saying the marriage may or may not have had problems but affairs are a cheat problem. That's clear in a lot of literature on affairs nowadays. Victim blaming is never cool.

I read a lot on here about women who stay, commentary tends to refer to a woman usually of a generation above who stayed and has been bitter etc etc. Again things have moved on. Rugsweeping was common place. It’s very different now, anyone involved in true reconciliation knows that you can not expect to just lock trauma away.

We're more aware. Affair psychology has moved on. We don’t put up and shut up anymore.

Healthy reconciliation now means facing a number of key truths head on. It's not pleasant and hardly for the faint of heart. Discussing issues of trauma, PTSD, right to informed sexual consent (which was taken by the cheat) has to happen. The cheat needs to feel remorseful and work to be a safe partner. Tbh if the cheat isn't working their absolute arse off any one advising the betrayed would say leave.

Women who stay are not 'dumb' and don't 'lack self esteem' far from it. They chose to stay for a myriad of reasons. Belief their husband could be better, belief that they are happier with than without, belief that they can work through all the nuances and tricky questions the affair raised and heal, understanding that they still love him and even a careful appraisal of who the cheat was prior to the affair. Ultimately it’s a belief people can do wrong and grow and change.

Choosing to stay is hard. It is hard because it goes against what society believes is healthy for the betrayed partner.

That’s what sucks. It is NOT their shame to carry, it’s the cheat’s.

As for the AP, hating them is common, it’s part of the trauma response, you work towards indifference. In the case of married men, broken women who fall for married men will always exist, they aren’t special just wrong time, wrong place. They cause a huge amount of pain, their choice, they assist the husband in taking the right to informed sexual consent, they often dig knives in post affair, their choice but ultimately he let someone like that into the families lives. The cheat and betrayed partner have to own that truth, the walls of the marriage would never have crumbled of the cheat hadn’t let the AP in.

Staying is not for everyone, but I loathe the blanket opinion of reconciled wives on here. It isn’t helpful and doesn’t assist in (predominantly) women on here getting the right AND SAFE advice to stay if they wish and heal. Which is why I also always advise people to go to other forums like surviving infidelity.

Affairs pass pain on, broken meets broken and they pass pain from the cheat and AP to the betrayed. Pain that is indescribable to anyone who has not experienced it. The important thing is that the pain is stopped at some point and healed. Whether that is staying or going. No one should be mocked or ridiculed for their choice. The important thing is that all parties heal and learn from it.

I forgave him once and he did it again so I left. Not a single regret and would never forgive another partner. I can be very black and white honestly and once someone has betrayed me, that's it.

I do deeply regret giving him a second chance as I became this paranoid, insecure person that I didn't like. I felt like I had to swallow so much anger and hurt to make it work, but it hadn't gone away and it ate me up.

@Ladybugzrock Yes to all of this. There’s this very old-fashioned view on MN that if you stay after infidelity you’ve just ‘forgiven’ them. It doesn’t work like that, at all. Reconciling requires a huge amount of work on both sides, and yes, if the wayward spouse isn’t doing that work or the relationship still doesn’t feel safe, then it’s time to walk away. But lambasting and shaming all betrayed partners (men and women - both are equally likely) just adds more pain to what they’re already suffering. I had to stay off MN for a good while after D-Day, it just made me feel a hundred times worse during the worst period of my life.

@Savvysausage

If you are looking for something to give you a way of thinking about it - try this book. It’s by a therapist who has worked with couples for many years.
She also has podcasts.
Here on MN it’s not a popular view point. But I do think it has a lot of points.
(also - there is a FB support group on that)

Ester Perel. The State of the Affair.

Generally - I don’t think there is one path that is right for everyone. Some people divorce. Many -(more than MN would like to believe) - don’t and keep going. Some manage to reinvent their marriage. Other get stuck in some rut.
From EP’s experience - couples that make it through - have all had to put a lot of effort into it. Rebuilding communication. Soul searching on both sides. Getting to the bottom of why it all happened, how the relationships had worked and what didn’t. What needs to change.
Blame is rarely helpful and things are rarely black and white in those.

Sorry it had happened to you and good luck.

@crochetandacuppa

'I had to stay off MN for a good while after D-Day, it just made me feel a hundred times worse during the worst period of my life.'

I was lucky that in the days after I found out I found Surviving Infidelity. The long term posters there are so knowledgeable and amazingly empathic and supportive. I am so glad I didn't seek support here! I'm glad to see more posters like you trying to address the narrative here!

@Thewookiemustgo as usual my friend, a wonderful well thought out post!

The person who has been cheated on hasn't done anything wrong. In that regard, their integrity hasn't changed. It's just that now they're faced with a very serious moral dilemma as a result of the actions of another person. Yet we all face having to make decisions and take action based on the actions of others, all the time throughout our lives. Being cheated on is just one of those very, very big and very, very complex problems. There's no stigma is the betrayed partner maintains their integrity. It's one of the biggest challenges to one's integrity though.

I am with a cheater. Been together 23yrs. One affair lasted 4yrs...there was also another one years ago which was brief. The affair started when he had depression and was looking for validation.
It's easy to get stuck within conflicting values. I want to be non judgemental and supportive V I need to think of myself.
Someone on this thread mentioned gaslighting yourself...that has made me think. Whichever path is a crap one.

Er, I think it's perfectly reasonable to judge someone who has repeatedly cheated on you. 4 years is a huge amount of time!

Why on earth did you feel it was your responsibility to stay and support him

In my view, if you are "generally happy with the choice you made", it looks to me that you are trying to convince yourself that you are happy, but are not. This cognitive dissonance will eat you away.

When we make a decision, the goal is to be at peace with it. To know that was the best decision we could make at the time, with the resources and knowledge available. It doesn't seem to be your case.

I may be wrong, though. Do you feel respected in your marriage?