Help me understand OW's motivation

[wordleaddict]

A brief explanation, Sorry it is long. DP of 33 years, 2 teenage DC, is pushing 70. Looks a little younger than his age, but pretty jowly. Is an artist, musician, not very successful but comes across as bold, passionate, energetic. So about a year ago I linked him up with someone I had known for 2 years because she could help him with some printing up of artwork. She was then 27. After a few weeks, it turns out she tells him she has the hots for him. He tells me because he was so surprised. I think wtf but assume it is an aberration, the end of it. But I spy on his emails, because I am mistrustful and I see him online a lot. Yes, bad I know. They meet up a bit to play music, usually with others, so I start going along. They exchange a lot of pornographic drawings by email and he idealises her in poems and she writes saucy language about him opening her up in mind and body. Yuck. I eventually come clean about spying, go mad, tell others in the group what has been happening etc.Ban him from seeing her. He complies after a lot of arguing and him being nasty and talking about opening up our relationship and me saying no way. It has been a shitty year since with him drinking more and more and me getting paranoid and upset. I won't go into how crap I feel and how broken, because he said things to her about me that are wounding. I just want insight into her. Now 28, I suppose. Occasionally she has sent a letter, which on one occasion he showed me, because he couldn't work out who had sent it. It was all punning language about hearing him on radio and feeling held in his hands, blah blah. We saw her at an event last week. Today she sends an email saying she must see him and she will knock at door at 1pm. He tells her no and she stays away. What is this about? Is he really a catch for a young woman? Is she trying to destroy me, for fun, as she is well aware how shattered I have been through all this? Any insights?

I know this is v pai ful to hear, but the bottom line is .... Regardless of why (from her side) she has presented as (some kind of) romantic & sexual opportunity to your partner;

• he has been open to it,
• He has entertained her
• he has suggested an open relationship.

If it wasn't her now, it would be some other woman at some point.

That is how he responds to romantic & sexual opportunities with women he's interested outside your relationship.

He wants to either have you and them, or leave ..... He's clearly not trying to leave at this time because she's living with someone and she's not offering (presumably) a full relationship to him. So in the interim he's suggesting he have both of you.

Whether the prospective relationship with her (and therefore the open relationship) is actually all pie in the sky, is neither here nor there.

That's his response to this scenario.

I'm very sorry but that is who he is and that is how he feels about your relationship at this time.

Her attebtijnabd flirtation and the prospects with her have just uncovered that. Exposed it for you to see

*Her attention, flirtation and ...

I want him to love me again and recognise what he has

But you don't recognise what you have.

He's already been having an emotional affair (with the porn and sex talk verging into more) incidentally. An emotional affair is plenty good to end a relationship over.

The open relationship suggestion; ditto.

Would he put up with these from you?

Maybe only because you're the best winner, until he got an alternative prospect.

Is his proposed open relationship both ways ... Are you going to be free to pick up young men on the many hook up, sex sites and fuck them?

Even if you are; clearly you don't want that. I'm just wondering is he as hypocritical and lacking in all empathy there as well.

*bread winner

What you have to consider is not why she's chasing him but why are you? Don't you deserve better?

I have ZERO time for OW, but your partner has been and continues to be vile to you.

They tore down the walls of your relationship, he allowed her to have a window in and he's refusing to build those walls back up and help you feel safe and secure.

I know it's hard but you have to let go of the man you thought he was s as I'd see the grim in front of you.

It's awful to read that you want him to love you again, I know that feeling well, but who is it you want to love you, the man he was, surely not the man he is now. This creepy old bloke lapping up the attentions of a clearly broken woman. And I don't say that with sympathy, he must recognise that her infatuation is not healthy for her!

I completely agree that you need to get some infidelity knowledge behind you, dealing with this trauma is easier with knowledge. Chump lady is great, surviving infidelity website is great!

Right now (by staying with this unremorseful cheat) you continue to put yourself at risk.

He needs to ship up or ship out. Period.

Sorry for errors typing to fast and not double checking but hope you get my drift.

Really feel your pain

Daddy issues 🤷‍♀️

The disrespect of this man letting you, to some extent, keep him, while he flirts and sex chats and indulges in this shite behind your back.

And I bet, if he actually left, she wouldn't be kicking her partner out for him and moving him in.

He's such a fool he doesn't even see that ....risking his long term relationship for this "emotional" affair, risking it by suggesting an open relationship..... Either or those things, let alone both coulx, arguably should, have ended your relationship. You would be completely justified tomput him out on his ear.

And he's so dumb and deluded he can't even see it's for something)someone who's not even a sure bet.

Do you really want to be with someone so stupid and foolish; in addition to having no loyalty and essentially being a cheater?

God knows but in your position I'd be packing his bags anyway. He's made it clear he's interested and that would be enough for me, I couldn't keep clinging on to someone knowing they'd rather be with someone else.

She could be thinking a whole range of things. I think insecure young women sometimes have a weirdly romantic view of the idea of someone fucking their life up over them, as if they're a siren calling men onto the rocks. I suspect you don't feature in her thinking at all, at least not as a human being with feelings. Not really worth thinking about.

More worth thinking about is why you are putting up with any of this from him. He won't realise what he has while he thinks he can get away with how he's behaved. You say "Tried to throw him out a couple of times - but it never worked. I don't want him to go"- I wonder whether there's an element of "I want all this not to have happened" here (I mean, of course you do, but I mean in the sense of feeling denial about it). I would kick him out and mean it. She will soon lose interest when he's just a sad old man who could be her Granddad rather than Samson to her Delilah.

There is clearly something lacking in her relationship... From what she's said to him she clearly doesn't have good sexual/intimate communication, connection etc with her partner.

But she's clearly too weak to ebd the relationship if they can't fix it, and had gone for the weak, low option of filling that "void" with another man; who she doesn't care is attached though that is entirely up to him to honour. Whether she'd actually dump the slightly lacking live in partner for your faithless, shitty partner, has a very big question mark over it.

What matters is the fact is that it's your supposed partner who's her bit on the side and potential "monkey branch"/affair partner. He has no loyalty. He does not value, respect or appreciate your relationship.

You say "Tried to throw him out a couple of times - but it never worked. I don't want him to go"

At this moment in time (up til now I suppose) he knows, with absolute confidence, that you're going nowhere, you're not dumping him, you're not getting rid of him, he's a fixture ... No matter what he does. He always has you an as option.

You are doing the ultimate pick me dance .... Keep taking him back, will never follow through on ending the relationship.... Sorry but he has you as fall back girl, as 'ol faithful, as the one who'll always love him; you could not be putting yourself in a weaker position.

Is he really worth all that, take your wuv goggles off. A jowly, washed up, minimally successful artist who it sounds like you've had to keep for years?

You now know he's disloyal and might be off at the first real sniff of a younger (any?) attractive woman who pays him attention and engaged with him.

See him for what he is, it's not very attractive or high value. He's a dickhead.

Also I'm sure he looks like an attractive, solvent, relatively financially secure, high status older man to her while he's living in the probably quite nice home, with the quite nice lifestyle you've mostly provided .... When he's out in the sort of accommodation he can afford on his own, with a reduced lifestyle, pushing 70; he won't be looking quite so cool or attractive to her.

She is deeply damaged. No normal 20 something old would look at a 70 year old as a sexual being.

He'll be dead in 10 odd years. Shes after his money

Is she trying to destroy me, for fun, as she is well aware how shattered I have been through all this?

Because this is so pai ful for you, you're assuming someone is intending to cause you pain ... But the reality may just well be that you're collateral damage.

All she's thinking about is her crush, her infatuation, her flattering, exciting, illicit, attention giving, validating, indulgent little "affair". She doesn't even need to worry about the practicalities of it ever becoming something because she's got a live in partner at home, presumably my oblivious or if he had an inkling, he's putting up with this shit.

I don't think she's purposefully trying to do anything to you at all.

At most maybe a bit of the pick me, competitive, rivalry that other woman get into when a married or attached man entertains them and they end up in this situation.

She's mostly just selfish, self absorbed, low integrity, wanting her little dopamine hits from the attention and validation and mutual flattery and bonding etc

She's in "affair fog" as much sex him.

Is she trying to destroy me, for fun, as she is well aware how shattered I have been through all this

Also, you may preoccupy yourself with her, but she won't be reciprocating. You likely never cross her mind. Her life isn't about you. Don't spend chunks of yours wondering about her.

As to the initial crush, it's clear she highly valued artistic blah di blah, so he has high status for her.

And as I said, due mostly to you, he looks high status because he probably looks quite comfortably off and successful, and she doesn't have a clue you might be the main reason for that, not him.

Personally I think people esp younger people can have infatuations like that and after a period of time, when they mature a bit ; wonder what the fuck they were ever thinking and get retrospective ick. That may well happen for her in future.

I've tried to read most posts, but don't think anyone has mentioned 'transference'.

It is essentially a psychological process by which we transfer longings, desires, and emotions we had for our parents onto other figures who hold a similar authority over us (they may have formal authority like teacher/ priest/ doctor, or it may be that they are much older than us, or have some kind of 'status' that makes them feel more powerful or wise than we are). It can be very powerful and it's one of the reasons why teacher/ priest/doctor/Therapist positions tend to forbid sexual contact, as the transference effect can make anybody regress to the status of a damaged child.

None of this is an excuse- but if she is incredibly drawn to your DH, she is probably, as some have said, quite damaged. Most specifically, she probably has a father who left her feeling unsafe or unloved or unseen, and she has transferred the longing for that onto your DH.... probably all unconsciously. So suddenly she has met a man who seems to stir something in her deeply, who seems to offer the attention and nurturing she missed, who is safe, older, wiser, unknowable, who is invested in our development, seems to be proud of us and excited by us.... like we often want our fathers to be.

For your husband it can be a powerful cocktail.... just at a time when he's feeling his masculine life is over, when he's almost invisible to people, when he's losing or lost his potency, he has a young woman looking to him for everything, engaging with him erotically, 'bringing him back to life', acting like he's a god, longing for him...,, who he feels protective towards, because he senses the vulnerability, and if he's a basically good man, will be telling himself he is saviour, rather than exploiter....

As I say, none of it excuses, but this may be what's happening on an unconscious level......

I'm sorry you are going through this....

I suspect, like my exH's OW she thinks he's got more money than he actually has, my exH looked quite affluent and she thought he'd be able to keep her in the lifestyle she wanted and she had a bit of a surprise when she realised we didn't have a big house and he had the outward trappings of affluence because I was funding everything else. Sounds like your situation is similar.

I would be packing his bags, I doubt she'll actually want him when he's available but if she does good luck to her. Don't waste your energy on analysing her and engaging in boosting his ego cut him loose.

I'd also see a solicitor asap, given his age and as you're still working, and depending how old be dc are he may look for spousal maintenance and also a share of your pension if he doesn't have one or his is worth a lot less, plus of course a share in the equity in your house. You're at a particular difficult age for divorce because of the limited opportunity to recover financially before retirement and presumably he's already retired and doing his music etc. on a part time or hobby basis.

Anyway, as everyone had pointed out, it's not her you need to focus on.

Focusing on her is red herring.

If it wasn't her, it could have been another woman, another time.

What matters is that your partner has behaved AVS continues to behave the way he does. He is disloyal, he's been in acting inappropriately, he has no respect for your relationship, he has continued acting as he such even after being thrown out more than once. He's suggested an open relationship.

This has been his behaviour in the face of a half of what attractive woman giving him some opportunities for attention, flirtation etc.What value and respect does he put on your decades long relationship and (I presume) family together?

Why put value in it yourself when his attitude is clear.

*half way attractive woman

They don't seem to be married.

The only good thing for op in this thread.

She sounds like a bunny boiler.