Terrible row

[Highsmithfan]

This is my problem. For three years I have been trying to get over my husband’s affair. It happened during a horrible time when i was diagnosed with breast cancer. I have had a real problem forgetting what went on but as time has passed I have got better at controlling myself and he very much wants to put it all behind us. He says it was a horrible mistake and he never meant to leave me.
recently i found emails he had sent to OW during the affair where he asked her repeatedly to marry him and urged her to leave her husband and run off with him.
I never meant to let him know i have seen the emails but tonight I had too much wine and I asked him how he could have intended to leave me when I was ill and scared. He got absolutely furious. He says he's sick of me and leaving tomorrow and he is lying fully dressed on the sofa (i hid his car keys as he ‘s too drunk to drive).
i don’t know what to do. I can’t forgive this thing of forget it. I don’t feel like apologising but I can’t stand the animosity (although I have obvs caused it).
is it normal to still be upset 3 years post affair?

Your posts come across as blaming yourself for the way you feel and the need you feel fo apologise. I am not sure why you have come to feel this way, is he trying to deflect what he did and minimise it? He betrayed you and made a mockery of your marriage. At anytime, this would be awful, but when you were so unwell and going through gruelling treatment, completely cowardly and beyond disgraceful. He is only upset tonight, as you have found out more about his affair and he knows his behaviour has been undefensible
You have every right to be angry and resentful of him.

You may be cross with yourself for losing your temper, but getting things out in the open with him may have been more helpful go you, rather than bottling things up between you, hoping it will go away
You need to ask yourself can you get beyond this, has he stayed out of genuine love for you and the desire to make your marriage work as his priority, or has he stayed because the OW would not leave?
Couples counselling and/or counselling for yourself, if you have not already done this, would be my suggsstion
Don't apologise to him or ingratiate yourself, explain to him you are angry and struggling with all of it. He must understand that, but say if you are to stay together, you need to talk through it and that may be hard for both of you. Hopefully your outburst will help him understand better how much he has hurt you and damaged your marriage.

@RiveDroite knobber is a good description. He kind of bonded with DH. He said I had to be the betrayed wife not the angry avenger if i wanted Dh to stay with me. He made us do personality tests (DH came out as sensitive artist type and I was dull, anal, fussy person who needed predictability of course!) honestly he was terrible.

Op. I’m sorry, your marriage is over.

what is it that’s driving you to try to stay with him? Is it financial? Fear of being alone? There is clearly something which is driving you to try to cling on. You know it’s over. So can you understand the core underlying need you have that’s making you stay?

What work has your husband done on himself? His reaction sounds routed in shame. Blaming you will not help you recover. What research has he done on how to help you.

This revelation is new to you abs has therefore sent you back to the beginning of discovery. Why hasn’t he got rid of the emails? Surely the counsellor told him to destroy everything?

Without him doing his part you will struggle to recover.

Oh OP, I really feel for you.

You have nothing to apologise for. For a relationship to heal after one party has had an affair requires honesty- after all, how can you forgive if you don't know what you are forgiving? Of course this new information opens everything up again.

It's hard to comment on your row last night because you had both been drinking, but his angry response is not reasonable and not your fault. I would suggest that you take some time to think about whether you want to continue the relationship in the light of the new information, and if so consider whether either individual or marriage counselling might help you work through it all. Being generous to your husband, his horrible response yesterday might have been because he's been drinking and he may be different today (is he often drunk and unreasonable or was it a one-off?) However, if he carries on trying to blame you for pointing out his dishonesty, that would be a big indicator that the relationship is not fixable.

Your husband had an affair and was planning to leave you while you had cancer! Why oh why are you still with him?!
You've done nothing wrong.

WTAF! I’m astounded at that counsellor!

Pleass don’t apologise OP, you have nothing to apologise for. His anger is due to guilt, deep down he knows he’s a horrible human being and he wants to kid himself that he’s not.

You are still blaming yourself for raising essential issues in your relationship, his affair and his lies.

He failed you when you needed him most. He lied and kept lying about his relationship with OW and is still bulldozing you into making your feelings invalid. The wine only gave you the encouragement to say what you felt "in vino veritas", and his answer to you discovering the emails has been appalling.

I'm sorry but your husband is an arsehole who doesn't give a shit about you. It's all about him. His affair, his lies, his making you feel guilty for questioning him about the emails. He has no empathy, or care for you at all. It's all about him.

I really couldn’t get over that level of betrayal. I’d be throwing it in his face if he didn’t put the bins out, let alone if I found emails like you did.

If you get sick again and his affair partner decides to go with him, what then?

Better to get on top of this now, OP, he's settled for you as 2nd best and you and he both know it. It's a shame but there is.

I don't know what counsellor you saw but this was completely unethical. There is no way a counselling psychologist will give you this advice. He/she is there for you navigate and understand your OWN feelings, never to give advice on your marriage or say he is a "good adulterer". Good grief, what kind of counsellor did you see?
w

i got upset because he was talking about when people get old and have been together a long time and accept that they will probably have to nurse a partner through illness - and I said ‘well what about me then, you were prepared to run off with OW and leave me to get over cancer all on my own’. I shouldnt drink wine really!

went back to call this up: it is a sad fact that partners of women with high care needs (so cancer is one) find that their partner doesn't provide the care in favour of leaving. AFAIK advice about this often comes up in discussions with healthcare providers when women find themselves seriously ill or injured. (that is, in the couples where a partner leaves, that partner is more likely to be the man than the woman. Many many more partners stay and provide excellent care)

Maybe he felt guilty because he knows he won't provide care in the future if you get sick again because you already know he is not able (for whatever reason) to provide that care for you.

In your case, OP, it is probably better to now draw a line. You tried, and even if you had the wrong councellor - it won't change your H's basic personality. Better to quit now rather than face more disappointment later.

@Highsmithfan you can apologise for your behaviour and outburst and unkindness. That does not mean any of it is your fault. This is a new betrayal because he told you it was a fling and it was clearly more. You probably detected that hence not really trusting. You can work through that with help but need to decide if you both want to.

But, without anger from either of you, he needs to acknowledge that, he let you down badly at your most vulnerable (sounds like he has accepted) and then accept that he has failed to be honest and therefore the work you have done since was not built on a proper fresh start but more lies. So that is on him. You thought she was just an escape then had to see in writing she was ‘the love of his life’ (even if he was rambling and it wasn’t true because it was a fantasy escape because he could not face your illness).

Of course you should not have snooped but clearly there was something you picked up on so this had to happen at some level. He is probably relieved in some way it is all out.

You both need to calm down and then find out if, despite it all, you want to give it a real try, warts and all. This will mean some very in depth uncomfortable talks but, if you both want to try, and your underlying connection is strong, it is possible. But if the whole lot doesn’t come out, the same will keep happening.

Good luck OP xx

I am very sorry you got this 'advice' from your counsellor. I don't think this sounds right at all and if I was you I would perhaps try and find a different counsellor. I would also go on my own as a PP suggested. I am very sorry for your situation. None of this is your fault and I wonder if you would consider that you might be happier out of this marriage. Sending best wishes to you

Of course you should not have snooped but clearly there was something you picked up on so this had to happen at some level. He is probably relieved in some way it is all out.

Of course she should have snooped, she didn't trust him and her gut feelings paid off. She found out she's been sold a pack of lies by her husband AFTER the affair.

The only way to recover from an affair is through honesty, painful as it may be to hear some truths. When her husband lied about his feelings for the OW, he took away essential information from the OP to make a choice whether she wanted to continue with the marriage when her husband was asking another woman to marry and run off with him and divorce her husband.

This is why affairs are so toxic, cheaters lie to protect themselves and don't really care how those lies take away essential information for their partners to make a choice for the present and future life.

Saying sorry doesn't magically erase all the hurt. Betrayal is horrendous. It scars and changes you as a person, especially if you are/were deeply in love with the person who hurt you. I have a counsellor friend who often says that 'it is a mistake to think you can get over betrayal'. People who choose to stay when they have been hurt will NEVER be the same. You will never get it back to the way it was. But you can build something new if that is something you want. In my case we both deserved something more by the end of the relationship. And we are both much happier apart.

It is possible to recover, OP, but IME it takes longer than 3 years and you have to make peace with the fact that your relationship is irrevocably altered (though sometimes that can be a positive). But it’s only possible if you’ve done the hard work of having all the painful conversations and stripping away the layers of deceit, and you are both able to acknowledge and avoid the triggers that send you into these spirals.

It’s not sustainable if new information like this keeps coming to light, because it will understandably send you straight back into a discovery state of shock and anger. It will also destabilise your relationship generally because you will be on alert for the next thing and trying to protect yourself from nasty surprises, which is no way to live.

It really depends on how much you both want to stay together and how hard you’re prepared to work, because I honestly think there comes a point where it can cost you too much mentally and emotionally to make it worthwhile.

Your experience in couple’s counselling made my jaw drop. Some people should absolutely not be working in relationship therapy, and it’s an industry which is alarmingly unregulated considering its impact on people’s lives. It may be worth trying again, but you need to identify the right type of therapy for you as a couple, and make sure you find someone with solid credentials and experience.

I wish you all the best.

For me, this adds a whole different perspective to the issue. You have now found out something that you didn’t know at the time because he wasn’t honest.

Your only mistake for me was forgiving him in the first place. You had breast cancer and he was asking someone else to marry him!

That is surely unforgivable.

Yep chose her. He is still with you because she said no. You deserve better.

I find it strange that in the aftermath of an affair, the spouse convinced themselves that because their cheating partner ‘chose them’ that the affair(s) can’t have meant anything. And that they ‘won’ and they can come out of things stronger.

I get it, the pain of the truth is surely unbearable. But I’m cheating the spouse has repeatedly chosen the other, and themselves. They stay because it is easier for them. Because they don’t have the guts to actually do the right thing and end the relationship. Not because it was ‘just a mistake’ or ‘only a fantasy’. Not because they ‘love the spouse more’. Love does not involve lying, betrayal, deceit. There can be no true intimacy afterwards. There is a whole part of their life, another side to them you will never know.

OP, you are worth more than someone who was willing to desert you at the worst time in your life. Have counselling, for yourself, and work out what it is you truly want and what you are truly worth.,

sending hugs xxx

I've don't think I've ever read something as awful as this and I've been here for many years. Your experience with the counsellor just makes this a thousand times worse.

Of course you can't get over this. Do you think you would have taken him back if you had seen these emails at the time? And no, you don't have to accept that he can love two people...that's just being fucking greedy.

When did you find out about the affair? I think he has let you down very badly at the most vulnerable time in your whole life. He has made you feel completely insignificant and he should always accept your anger if he wants to stay with you. You, on the other hand, don't need to accept that you will always be angry. This will change you and ruin who you are.

Please find some more strength and plan a way to leave him. You nearly lost your life before, don't lose the rest of it to this awful man. He doesn't deserve you and this will never go away.

He loves you both and accept it?

wtaf am I reading here

no no no

dreadful

I guess you must really really love this man

I’m sorry but this love is a dysfunctional sort of love. Please ease your standards

@SunnySideDownBriefly you are right I would not have taken him back if I had seen these emails at the time. I wish i had just left him then immediately. I found out about the affair when it had been going on for 14 months. 12 months of that time was the cancer treatment, diagnosis, recovery period etc. so the affair started a few weeks before my diagnosis.

You have nothing to apologise for. He's an absolute prick and the lowest of the low

He may have admitted to the affair but the fact he completely minimised it is lies on top of lies. The fact you found the emails and found out he'd been telling further lies will clearly be upsetting and bring all the raw emotion back to the surface

He's brought this on himself by not even being honest when he's been caught out. His immature reaction is either 1) guilt, or 2) his attempt to manipulate you into thinking it's your fault and begging him to stay.

I'd 100% pack his bags and ditch him. Not only for having a fully blown affair and proposing to another woman while you're going through the worst time of your life, but also for the subsequent lies and not having the decency to be honest. How can you possibly trust a word he says?

You need to have a calm conversation when you're sober. They say that when you're drunk the real you comes out and it just shows that you've been hiding your fears and concerns.

The crux of it should be a simple question to him:

"If OW were to turn up here right now, declaring she'd made a mistake and wanted you back, what would you do?"

If there is any hesitation, or anything less than an outright "I'd tell her to leave immediately - I love YOU", then there is no way forward and there's no point continuing to torture yourself.

You'll always be thinking that you're second best and that your husband is just waiting and hoping for her to change her mind. That's no way to live for either of you.

If he does immediately say he wants to stay and be with you, I'd really recommend some couples counselling to find a way to work it through.

Best of luck OP.