Sexual coercion in marriage - Can it be forgiven.

[Notsureonusername1]

I am currently in the process of separating from my husband of 12 years Whom I share 3 children with. We’ve had good times in plenty but it’s mostly been quite toxic. Lots of arguments etc.
After being unhappy for so long (have previously separated for pretty much same reasons) and finally giving myself a kick up the ass to ‘work in myself’ and reaching out for therapy I started to see a lot of issues in our relationship I hadn’t previously seen before, such as gaslighting, manipulation and the biggest issue, sexual coercion. All these obviously made the toxic issues in our relationship feel much more understandable to more and see why exactly I have been so unhappy.

my question is really … has anyone been through similar … sexual coercion on a regular basis for many many years… with use of tactics such a guilt, pestering, not listening and continuing, sulking etc and managed to get over it and the resentment caused by it to then continue the relationship?

Im not sure if I’m just scared of all the big life changes coming up or I am actually considering continuing to try but asking anyway.

I am hoping all this makes sense.

Isn’t entering you while badgering you rape?

@Palmfrond you are a real concern to women. And the fact you can’t see it when it is blindingly obvious is very scary indeed. You actually sound like you think you have insight and you are so far off the mark it’s unreal.

"Have you ever talked your missus into sex when she didn't fancy it?
Have you ever been moody or nasty to her when she says no?
Have you ever pushed her to have sex with you when she told you she didn't want to?
Have you ever made her feel guilty until she gives in and has sex with you?
Have you ever threatened you would leave her if she didn't have sex with you?

If YES, that's rape.
You raped her.
Women don't owe you sex.
You are not entitled to sex. Ever.

Take no for an answer.
No means no.
Stop raping women."

Word for word, a Victim Focus poster.

As an ex-DV advisor, the rape issue really used to bother me. It's such a big word! So many rapists - 'no, it cannot be! Rapists are scary nasty dangerous etc - they are not our hunky boyfriends and husbands!'

And Palmfrond is an excellent example, even down to the fact that he will denigrate the advice being given here. 'It cannot be rape, rape is BAD, this isn't bad, it is normal, we all do it!'

Yes - our point exactly.

Maybe one man at a time, we get across the idea that men are not owed sex for a relationship.

Reading all you've written makes me feel angry for you Op, I wish you could feel angry too! How dare he treat you like his sex toy and not a person with feelings. The bit about him thinking you should be glad he still wants you- then he badgers you until you give in - it just makes me so sad for you.
He has NO right to force you into sex and no right to guilt trip you. You're not giving up on him, he's forced you to the point where you no longer want sex because his behaviour is so awful. Please be strong and end this charade of a marriage. The peace and hapiness you feel when you can just to to bed and sleep undisturbed will be worth it I promise you

Thank you everyone
Im really sad that I’ve let this go on for so many years that I feel partly to blame.
I didn’t realise it was destroying me or damaging me so much inside until this point … all I want is a happy family
I feel so sad, gutted and guilty for asking to separate.
I just keep thinking about the little happy moments or how nice he’s being (well most the time) atm and it makes me doubt the choice I’m making but I also know I can’t live this way anymore.

You're doing the right thing @Notsureonusername1 x

So very sad OP.

You have been raped for years in your marriage.

Coerced, harrassed and bullied.

No wonder you suffer with depression.

Your poor body and mind ground down by such a selfish pig.

Get away asap.

Anything can be forgiven, but forgotten ? Hardly

In the end of the day the only person you have to live with is yourself, so take care of yourself.

Stop blaming yourself OP. You feel bad for not leaving sooner, bad for leaving now, bad for letting it happen, bad for not stopping it. This is what emotional abuse does to a person but honestly the only person in the wrong here is him. You’ve taken a huge step here naming it for what it is. That takes a lot. Don’t allow the “good times” to affect how you feel about the bad. This is how they operate… give you just enough to make you doubt your feelings.
Be good to yourself and have faith in yourself.

Your OH has zero respect for you and that will never change, no matter what he promises.

You should go through with the separation and just maybe he might begin to realise his behaviour was not justified. If you don't he will have got away with it and continue.

I do wonder if because I tend to just in I’ve kinda caused it and made him this person, especially if he’s feeling unloved

You aren't to blame, someone who loves you would not do this to you.

You aren’t to blame at all, he is. It’s completely his fault. I’ve been in a relationship where I have a much higher sex drive (I’m a woman). You know what I didn’t do any of the things your P is doing or has done. No sulking, no pestering, no badgering, no touching, no guilt tripping, no coercing, no forcing, no entitlement, no sexual assault. Because no means no. A coerced yes is a no. An unenthusiastic yes is a no.

imagine getting into bed every night and being safe OP. Imagine being able to go straight to sleep.

I don't know what's wrong with me.
I felt so strong for a week or so and now I am here really wobbling. Feeling bad and full of guilt, panicking I am making mistake or going to regret it. I haven't got much behind me so life is going to be difficult and pretty rubbish .lol slightly materialistic I know and I am really not but with the cost of living etc the way it is it's a genuine concern.
He once said ' There is a lot worse out there than me ' and it's really got me thinking, is it all that bad. Did I just focus on the negative too much. If I tried harder would things be better.
He's not a monster and maybe just goes about things the wrong way.
Honestly the things going round my head right now are just consuming me at the moment.
Even though I could never see a happy future with him and it was more a case of, just get through life and hope it gets better, I now feel sad that I won't even have that. How stupid.

I just don't know if I am strong enough to do this.
That the grass won't be greener so what is the point. How pathetic really

He's a horrible, abusive man who definitely used coercion and it sounds like actual sexual assault / rape.

He is a monster op. He’s doing this on purpose because he can, he enjoys overriding what you want, he doesn’t respect you and he gets off on raping you. Sooner or later he will stop getting off on what he does now so he will get worse - so he gets a new thrill out of it. Then that’ll stop working so he will get worse again.

that’ll be your life. There’s no point in waiting for it to get better - why would it? He has no reason to change once he’s got you back where he wants you.

there might be a lot worse out there but there’s definitely a lot better - he’s practically in the sewer as it is

I think he genuinely loves me , through all this and the way he acts I still believe he does.

He doesn't, he genuinely loves having you around, you're well trained. You leave he'll have to start again. Go leave go for you, you'll be amazed how you're health and energy and happiness will improve. Just one step away at a time.

What makes you think he loves you?

What you are describing is coercion and rape. What you're feeling is, I think, that fear / dread of going it alone to escape.

I didn't realize how bad my husband was until I was out. It's taken me years to come to terms with the fact that I was repeatedly raped, among other things.

He had an absolute belief that, as his wife, I had an obligation to service his needs not only when he wanted, as frequently as he wanted but in the way he wanted. He violated every possible boundary I had. I did what he wanted because I couldn't tolerate the guilt, the conflict and ultimately I didn't think I could manage as a single Mum.

I was wrong. While it was difficult to start with, the relief, the peace, the safety of being away from him trumped every thing. I only wish I had left sooner. I am not a man hater, but I will certainly never have a relationship ever again. The degree of violation left me completely unable to trust another man ever again.

I don't believe this level of violation and disregard of personal boundaries can be forgiven or overcome.

It is completely normal to go through many periods of doubt. You've been conditioned to put yourself last and leaving is completely against that - there will inevitably be times when a voice in your head will pop up asking you "what the hell you're doing, how can you think you deserve more?". They are shit to go through but they will start to shorten in length and the better things about your new life will present a counterpoint to those thoughts.

You might think about writing down the bad things about your relationship to remind you of the fact that alot of the time you've been deeply unhappy with your H.

Also try to find small wins each day - what can you do now that you couldn't before? Have a shower without harassment? Watch a tv programme your H hated? Start something you wouldn't have had space for before (a short walk, jigsaw puzzle, read a book).

You have made a huge change and it's bumpy but a life without being sexually harassed is your right and at some point you'll breathe out, realising that you've gone a period without being groped or coerced and you'll feel freer.

He's using classic ploys....I'm not that bad there is worse is no different to your so crap now body would have you......your not bad, you are worthy you are amazing he's manipulative and controlling. You will have a happy future ...he is not the conditional element to that he is what is stopping it.

I think I'm staying single forever. It's horrific how 'normal' this is in heterosexual relationships. So normal that blokes will come on a thread like this and admit they do the same.

How on earth are we meant to want relationships with men when I suspect the majority of them behave like this in relationships?

He's says he does quite often.
Sometimes I think this is his messed up way of showing his love.. like maybe he just shows it in different ways. Wrong ways but still. To him sex= love I think.
And he can be caring, like when I was sick a few months back he was there holding my hair back, rubbing my back.

I'm starting to realise how blooming pathetic I am. I've spent most the morning almost convincing myself I'm a possible narcissist ..
Over the years I have become a bit of a nag and I can get angry and shout when things aren't done after multiple asks. Am I controlling?
I often step in when he's arguing with the kids, especially when he's shouting and often swearing etc and then he tells me they are like that because I undermine him etc ... is he right? ... am I passive aggressive and undermining maybe.
I am also guilty of calling him a shit dad once or twice in an argument, again when I'm stepping in on his over the top yelling at the kids or I've come home from work and the house is a mess, the kids have barely been spoken too because he's choosing instead to game online with friends. ... Am I a bully?!
And when I am upset I have noticed over the years I have got a bit sulky with it. Like I struggle now with emotions and recognising what I'm feeling and sometimes it comes out in a 'don't talk to me, leave me alone' sulk ... which I've recently read can be seen as manipulation.

He's playing so nice and being the most loving dad to the kids atm, messaging them everyday etc, it's all I can see and then I hear his words of how I a, just giving up and throwing him away, he wants to give me the world, we're soulmates, fated, meant to be etc etc

I hate it because I know I am not the person I have become. I feel like I know nothing anymore and my head is my worst enemy sometimes.

I could tell you I love you and it would probably be more true than if he said it. He can’t be shit all the time because then you really wouldn’t stay would you? Him being nice to you and the kids is the fake him. That’s the one that’s chucking out a few crumbs every now and again to keep you on the hook.

actions speak louder than words. don’t listen to what he says, look at what he does. Your children are learning what relationships are like based on what they see - what would you say to them if they were in your position?