I had to give DM the worst news

[anotherNameJustForThis]

I’ve name changed for this as I feel it must be very outing. I’ve never known anyone to have done what I had to do the other day.

DM is 79 and has cancer. She had surgery a few weeks ago and when the surgeon spoke to us afterwards, she told us that she was unable to remove it all. She told us that she would know more after pathology results were back but that there was more diseased tissue than she’d expected which made her think this cancer was very aggressive.

DM is really ‘on the ball’ generally, however, is not taking a lot of this in so she asked me to deal with the doctor and gain all the information. The doc called me with pathology results. It is, as she suspected, a very aggressive cancer and she asked if I wanted to know the prognosis. DM hadn’t asked and she said that one part of her job was to understand what each person wanted to know. I told her I wanted her to tell me everything. She told me DM had “months, not a year”. It felt like a blow but I could almost pretend I hadn’t heard that because DM didn’t know and she and my step-dad were talking in very positive terms. The doc also reminded me that DM is currently asymptomatic so should do what she can to enjoy life while she can.

All week conversation with DM has been mainly about her cancer. How scared she is but hopeful that chemo would buy her a few years. She thought she could maybe have 5 years, etc. she kept asking me things that I (stupidly) thought I was successfully side-stepping without her noticing. Of course she bloody noticed!

On Friday night, she asked me outright, looked me in they eye and said, “my name, I know you’d tell me if you knew something that I didn’t.”
So I had to tell my mum that she is dying, that she didn’t even have a year left.
It sounds like a cliche but she recoiled as if I’d punched her. Then I had to tell her husband.

I just wish I hadn’t visited that day. We have an appointment at the hospital soon and I wish she’d waited till then. I feel awful for telling her but how could I not?

It actually felt like I had killed a little bit of her, her hope.

Maybe it’s an expected human response but immediately my step dad started reframing it:
⁃ How could the doctor possibly know this (pathology),
⁃ how can she predict a timescale (pathology plus experience of others with this type of cancer),
⁃ ‘John’ down the road was diagnosed with cancer 2 years ago and I saw him out running today (John is 40 and had an entirely different prognosis)
⁃ Etc etc.

The thing is, I believe the doctor. I don’t know why a seemingly healthy (asymptomatic) woman will die in a few month because she seems fine now, but I believe she will.

I think I am writing this for myself, not really for any answers. I don’t feel that I’m coping very well and don’t know what to do.

I'm sorry. This must be so hard for you. But in this situation I don't see what else you could have done. Your mother asked you to tell her the truth, and didn't give you the opportunity to side step it. She wouldn't have wanted you to lie to her.

The situation I was in with my DF and my MIL was that they knew that they were dying but others close of them didn't want to accept it. My MiL had months left to live, but FiL was in denial, wouldn't discuss it with her, or even talk about it, which was very difficult for her. She wanted - needed - to talk about it. How she wanted to die, her wishes for when she died. Not at length, because there were still far more interesting things to talk about! If your step dad continues to be in denial as my FIL did, your DM will need you as someone she can talk to.
Being aware of what MIL wanted and being able to help make sure her wishes were carried out did make it easier for us too. Easier - it's never easy to lose someone you love.

With my DF, he wanted to make sure all his affairs were in order, and wanted to make sure I knew where everything was so I could deal with them, to take that burden off my DM. My DB continued to believe that something could be done. I remember my DF's gentle humour as my DB suggested yet another supplement or other miracle cure that he could try.

Planning for death will help make sure that your DM is on the palliative pathway, has access to pain relief when and if she needs it, and is able to die on her own terms as much as is possible, e.g. at home or in a hospice, rather than being rushed into A&E at the end of life.

Her doctor should be able to advise and support with all of this, of course.
Don't forget to think about what support you have for yourself and what support you need.

These are some of the resources I found helpful.
Dying Matters resources from Hospice Uk https://www.hospiceuk.org/our-campaigns/dying-matters/dying-matters-resources
Compassion in dying were really helpful https://compassionindying.org.uk/about-us/

You did nothing wrong. Your mum demanded an honest answer from you and you gave it to her. If she didn’t want to know she shouldn’t have demanded your honesty. Personally I wouldn’t want to know so wouldn’t have put you on the spot like that. Be kind to yourself and be there for your mum, just as you already are💐

DM is really ‘on the ball’ generally, however, is not taking a lot of this in so she asked me to deal with the doctor and gain all the information. The doc called me with pathology results. It is, as she suspected, a very aggressive cancer and she asked if I wanted to know the prognosis. DM hadn’t asked and she said that one part of her job was to understand what each person wanted to know. I told her I wanted her to tell me everything

The doctor should have checked what YOUR MUM wanted to know. What you wanted to know isnt the important thing.
My late DH's consultant asked my DH what he wanted to know. He didn't want a prognosis, so I didn't askto be given one privately either.
And when the consultant gave us bad news, he had the specialist nurse at hand to counsel us afterwards. Your mum needed that after care, which she didn't get.

Allowing you to give her the news without someone on hand to counsel her (and you) was very wrong of the doctor.

I’ve never known anyone to have done what I had to do the other day.

That's because it shouldnt happen. Both you and your mum will be feeling traumatised because of how this all came out. I really do recommend that you contact a helpline this evening, and try to get to talk with someone at the hospital tomorrow. Preferably your mum's specialist nurse, if she's already been allocated one.

I'd agree that the consultant shouldn't have handled things in this way and possibly has breached confidentiality without consent. I think you did a much better job.

Please do contact the specialist nurse or Macmillan or the Maggie's Centre if you have one locally. You are going through something exceptionally tough.

I think that people hear and retain what they can cope with. They edit out those things that are too much. You have done the right thing in being honest when she insisted, but I am surprised the consultant put you in this position - although your Mum had asked for you to have the medical discussions.

Such a difficult position for you to find yourself in.

I did not discuss my OH's prognosis with him, but one of my DD's found herself in a position where she had to have this conversation with him - not an "am I going to die" conversation exactly, but involvement in a decision as to whether he wanted to go into hospital for IV antibiotics, which he decided against - and as a doctor himself he would have known the implications in that moment. He never brought it up with me - either he had not taken it in, or he did not wish to have the conversation again.

It is hard to know what is going on in the minds of those faced with a poor prognosis - no-one can really get inside their heads and hearts. I look back and wonder whether I did things right - but often when he was with me he was not able to think sufficiently rationally to have a conversation of this depth.

I know how you must be feeling but truly you have done your best and could have done no more. Please be at peace with this - none of us can do more than our best and this is what you have done. Sending a hand hold to you all.

I'm very sorry.

The parents are in shock but in a while they will manage to take it on board and having this knowledge means they won't waste what time they have together.

It gives them time to say goodbyes, plan how they want to spend the time left together. It gives all of you chance to talk about the stuff we never talk about. (you may find she doesn't want to, but your Dad and you need to talk to each other.) Go with the flow.

Make the most of her current lack of symptoms to do whatever she wants and makes her happy, paint her toenails red. Eat favourite foods. Plant some bulbs or a tree. Revisit old home/friends . Look through old photos and remember the past.

You could help her write a will and put her affairs in order . They may want to plan her funeral. If they leave it to you, ask her wishes.

Later, she may talk about where she wants to be at the end; at home, in a hospital, in a hospice. If you have a local hospice, contact their outreach now; so you have the info she might want to think about.

This is absolutely perfectly put.

i’m so sorry OP 💐

I'm sorry OP 💐

Please don't be too hard on yourself - it sounds like there have been some communication issues in what is already a very difficult time. You have acted in good faith, doing the best you can in awful circumstances.

I have two suggestions.

First, it sounds to me like you might benefit from having some discussions with your mother and her husband - and your mum's medical team - about how to handle medical information. It sounds like one reason you ended up in this quandary is because your mum delegated to you the task of getting information from the doctor, but without a proper discussion about, for example, whether any questions were off limits, either between you and the doctor, or between you and her.

Second, it sounds like you would like to be fully informed - but if your mum does not share your sentiments then I would suggest you think about ways to respect those wishes and give her the support she needs (bearing in mind this might change over time; and there might be existential discussions she needs to have, but not with you). If your mum needs a bit of hope at the moment then go with it. What her husband said in relation to point 2 is absolutely right - a prognosis is only an estimate based on similarly-placed individuals. They can be wrong, especially in the elderly where even aggressive cancers can progress more slowly than expected. Take your cues from your mum. There are ways you can gently help her get her affairs in order - for instance, with my dad, I suggested after an acute illness that he get his will and power of attorney sorted out now, while he was doing well, so he could focus on other things. My dad was not in denial about his cancer diagnosis, but he retained a belief that he would somehow defy the odds - the day before he died, I was typing emails on his behalf setting up plans for later in the year. From what I can tell, problems arise when everyone in the family is in denial, meaning that the death is an enormous shock and loose ends have not been tied off. In my dad's case, everything that needed to be said had been said. All the practical stuff was sorted. So I could just focus on doing whatever he wanted to be happy.

I hope this helps xx

Ah OP. My best friend had to do the same. She got the prognosis for her 24 year old sister in law. She had to tell her husband (it was his sister who was unwell) and he had to drive 200 miles to tell his parents and sister she had 4 months to live. Im so sorry you are in this position x

@SequinsandStilettos, I would hate for anything I wrote to put you off making your valuable contribution to this thread. I am so sorry to hear about your MIL's funeral plans and the letter later making you/your FIL feel that you might have done the wrong thing.

There is no right or wrong way to do any of this, including breaking bad news. Other people like doctors might have more experience and training in it, but does that make them the best person to share this kind of information?

From the moment we begin to understand that we won't live for ever, we all have to find a way to face up to that. Everyone is different. Some need more information, others want less, or prefer to focus on distractions.

When my parent died recently I realised that... just as we can't live someone else's life for them, neither can we die their death for them. There is absolutely no advice or help we can offer. Nothing. Just be there for them and let them know that we love them. That's all we can do. We have to leave the rest to them.

OP, you have honoured your mum's need for truth. You wish you could change the truth, but you can't. You responded with love and respect. X

I'm so sorry, my heart goes out to you. I was in a similar situation with my mum last year. The doctor told me that she had bowel cancer which had spread. I was with my mum, the doctor told her but I was left trying to reassure her & offer comfort. My mum was adamant she didn't want an operation but I don't think it was ever an option. It was lockdown which made it worse. Neither of us wanted to know how long exactly, mum lived each day as it came, we both knew it wouldnt be long I think.She died a year ago next Tuesday 8 weeks after diagnosis. It's still unreal to me, she deteriorated very quickly the last week.
We had support from the home hospice team. She lived with us & was surrounded by our family during that time.
I'm still struggling to come to terms with it. My mum although elderly was seemingly well , then admitted to hospital & died 8 weeks later.
I send you my sympathy, strength & understanding. It's so hard.💐

I would hate for anything I wrote to put you off making your valuable contribution to this thread. I am so sorry to hear about your MIL's funeral plans and the letter later making you/your FIL feel that you might have done the wrong thing
Oh, bless you alcemeg I was trying to express that I thought your post was perfect. As for Mum, we honoured her, that was enough for me. Don't get me wrong, there were parts to do with her stepson that would have made her turn in her grave (they didn't get on) but I had no control over that and as my partner is an atheist and so was of the opinion she had died, that's it, it was more important just to let it go and get through the day.
What I did learn though was for me, myself, I would want half the time but quality of life rather than twice the time suffering. Each makes their own decision. Just as we can't live someone else's life for them, neither can we die their death for them That is very true. You are very wise.
Moonriver and others who are still grieving, I am very sorry for your losses X

This ^ 💛

This is awful for you and the consultant should never have put you in that position. Not to give you false hope, but ageism plays a big part in initial Cancer ‘prognosis’. My 70 yo aunt was given ‘under a year’ for stage 4 bc that had metastised into the liver and pancreas. 15 years later she’s still alive and kicking. Cancer isn’t an exact science - for your mh I’d be tempted to try and take things as they come.

OP, you are brave and loving, doing your best for your DM in this horrible situation. In my experience, we can rarely get things perfectly right and usually feel there was something we could have done bette, with hindsight. You are there for your Mum, and stepdad and that’s the best thing you can do.

I hope you have loving support from family and/or friends yourself. Xx

My mom was given 6 months at most and she lasted 2 years.

denial isn’t a bad thing. They need to make some practical preparations, but as long as your mother feels good, she should try to keep living like a healthy person and enjoy the time she has.

It's not an exact science.

My 95 year old grandma got lung cancer and was told she had 6 months to live. She planned her own funeral and then .....waited for 3 years !

Get your mind to think positive, look into alternative holistic cancer treatment, don't sit and depend on westernmedicine

Thank you all so much for the responses. I wondered if some people would tell me that it wasn’t my place and that I shouldn’t have burst my DM’s bubble. Thank you for understanding the position I was in. @alcemeg your post was particularly helpful.

I am so sorry to all of you who have gone through similar. Thanks for sharing.

I said to a friend recently that, as humans, we have evolved in an almost infinite number of ways but we have not evolved to be able to deal with death. It’s one of the only certainties of life. Why do we have such difficulty dealing with it?

Anyway, to answer some points:

⁃	I agree their denial is only to be expected and it allows them to cope with the news in the best way they can. Also some of you have been uplifting with your stories of exceptions. Yesterday DM and I talked about faith and that we’re not entirely convinced that there is a God (I don’t mean to offend anyone). I said that I couldn’t then believe in miracles but I do believe in exceptions and exceptional circumstances. And that if anyone would be an exception, it would be her. She smiled and nodded at that.
⁃	I don’t blame the doctor for leaving the news to me, nor do I blame her for telling me. DM spoke to the doctor before she called me. She gave permission for the doc to tell me everything. She didn’t want to know at that point. I agree with a PP who said she heard the news when she wanted to hear it in a comfortable safe space with someone she trusts implicitly. 
⁃	Thanks also to those who have been concerned about my support. I am married to an amazing man who is doing everything he possibly can to wrap me in cotton wool! We have children (a couple of young adults who know what’s going on and 2 younger kids who know gran is ill but nothing more). So I do have support, thank you.
⁃	@permanenttemporary I hear you but the doctor didn’t breach confidentiality without consent. She had consent. She didn’t tell me anything without my mum’s specific instruction. The doctor has been wonderful and her disappointment was very clear when she told us she could not remove all of the diseased tissue.

Thanks again

Just realised I sort of duplicated 2 of my bullet points. It wasn't intentional

Cancer Is such a hideous illness, my mum was asymptomatic for a good few months of bowel cancer we knew nothing about , then only started with some stomach pain but bearable for a couple of months then everything took hold very quickly and ramped up in the last 4weeks she passed away.
Sorry your going through this big hugs xx

Well done, in a difficult situation. I'm sorry for what your family are going through.

My mum refused to allow my dad to know (though I think he guessed), and she refused to ask herself. She wouldn't accept anything anyone said 'he's an exceptional man, he'll beat the odds'.

That meant none of us managed to make any arrangements or have any deep conversations. It was all skating over the surface.

It was incredibly frustrating to see him being controlled by her and spending his time as she saw fit. I had to reconcile myself to the fact that he'd chosen her, chosen not to rock the boat for decades, and was living the life he had chosen to build with her on her terms.

You have an honest and supportive relationship, well done, take comfort from that.

As a nurse, I've witnessed and supported many families with terminal cancer and their loved ones. All reactions are different as are people. From your post you come across as very supportive, caring and kind... This will be you and your mum's strength over the coming months.

As a daugther, when my dad was given 10 months to live. I tried to look at it as a gift to say a long goodbye and treasure the moments we had. To focus on the positive memories we made in that 10 months. One, of my treasured memories is during a chemotherapy session, my dad and I were holding hands and laughing. A young women came up to us and said how lovely it was seeing a father and daughter holding hands and smiling during morbid situation. My dad, invited her to sit with us and hold hands and laugh. She did, it was a very warming and loving experience.

People need hope. There IS always hope.