Was this unacceptable?

[Clareroses]

I’ll start by saying I’m not very experienced in relationships, left a long relationships earlier this year and have just started looking to date.

I had a date yesterday, we arranged to meet in town for a coffee.
Met up, started walking to coffee shop, we went through a quiet bit of street and dateman grabbed and felt my bum, I pulled away.
We walked for a few more minutes, just talking normally, walking alongside each other before reaching an alleyway, I can’t remember how it all happened but he then reached his hands down my trousers and started feeling my bum, I tried to pull back, couldn’t, then eventually managed to physically moved his hands, we kissed and I started walking towards then end of the alley then he held me in a way that was a struggle to move and felt me up some more.

My head says none of that was acceptable, and it must have been clear I didn’t want it, yet he carried on, I didn’t say no, but I did pull away and keep moving his hands.
or did I confuse things as it was a date and when he went to kiss me I didn’t move.

Does anyone really think that’s ok on a first date?

Nope, not acceptable at all. Don't go on a second date.

Sounds like sexual assault to me.

How old are you, OP? Inexperienced in relationships or not, it's got to be obvious to you that this is assault.
Did yoy then go to coffee shop and pretend nothing had happened? What happened after date?

Definitely won’t be a second date.
I did think afterwards that all that happened seemed like assault, but then part of me is in disbelief of how it all happened, and possible trying to minimise it.

Goodness OP I'm so sorry this happened to you and absolutely understand why you felt you needed to kiss him. I kissed someone on a date once under similar circumstances. I was walking home after the date and he wouldn't leave. Kept following me. Stood in front of me and was begging for a kiss. I said no and kept walking. Eventually just kissed him and went home to get him to leave as I was scared he was going to rape me. Felt repulsed at myself and at him afterwards. Sad this isn't uncommon. Please don't ever see him again.

Oh my dear - that was assault.

Please don't have anything to do with him again - totally unacceptable behaviour, totally.

just because you've agreed to have a cup of coffee with someone, doesn't give them the right to start pawing at you, shoving his hands down your clothing. Don't feel guilty about not saying no - you were shocked by the outrageous behaviour.

Please tell someone IRL what happened

Early 40’s, dateman is a similar age.
Got to coffee shop, he decided it was too busy, so we went our separate ways there and then.
He was been in touch since wanting to meet again , but I’ve ignored.
which is part of my confusion, does he genuinely think that was all ok?

Of course it's not acceptable! I'd class that as sexual assault. He decided he had the right to grope you without any indication of consent. And continued to do so after it was clear his groping wasn't even vaguely welcomed.

Next time a date (because unfortunately there are multiple assholes like this out there) grabs your arse/boobs, finish the date right there and then and block. Read up on shark cages and set your boundaries and if anyone crosses them tell them to fuck off. Being on a date does not give anyone an automatic right to touch your body!!

It was sexual assault, Op. Do you feel able to report this?

I will definitely read up on that. Thank you.

I was trying to work out in my mind whether it would be worth reporting also. I suppose he waited until he was in an alley as there'd be no cameras. Whatever you feel comfortable with OP but it might be an idea. If you met on a dating website please also report him on there. They might not do anything but if a lot of people report things like this they may block his IP.

OP, not only was that NOT okay, but it was sexual assault. Not only should you never see or speak to this man ever again, but I would think a lot about what has happened in your previous relationships that you even questioned this.

Put it this way, short of the one night, age 22 I drunkenly more or less fell into a man on the stairs of a nightclub and had a snog and a bit of a mutual grope, I have never, nor would ever, consider groping to be acceptable when I'd just met someone. So unless you accidentally logged onto a dating site for instant sex/extramarital sex etc, there is just NO excuse for this.

Please report this man.

I'm sorry this happened to you. The next time, this man might go further with someone; I think the police need to be made aware of him as it's highly unlikely such a fine (sarcasm) specimen will suddenly buck up his ideas and start behaving in a respectful way towards women. It will be downhill from here I'd imagine, and goodness knows what he's already done (and probably gotten away with).

He caught you unaware. In this scenario, if we say "NO", and they continue anyway, then it's heart-breakingly obvious what this is (assault). As long as we don't say "no", and rely on our body language, e.g. pulling away etc, we can almost convince ourselves "it's not that bad". But we know it is. I've been there, and I expect many other readers have too. This is someone testing boundaries, crossing them, and he's absolutely vile.

Please report him x

Did you kiss him back and he took it to the next level thinking you were into it though?

What I'm getting at is did he misconstrue your signals?

It’s assault
stop is a complete sentence just say

stop

and walk away

dont kiss a man who is sexually assaulting you

My head says none of that was acceptable

Then it wasn't acceptable to you. There's no right or wrong about that. If something is unacceptable to you, stay away from it. Whether he thought he was doing the right thing, whether anybody might have thought he was doing the right thing, whether everybody in the world except you thought he was doing the right thing, your head said it was unacceptable, so it was unacceptable to you, and you are the one responsible for making sure you stay away from things you don't like.

Do you honestly think that if a man does something to your body and he says it's ok, that means you must be wrong to want him to stop?

You are the one who makes the decisions.

As you can see from the answers on the thread, his actions were not acceptable in anybody's book, but even if they had been, you would still need to say no, and distance yourself, from anybody who did things you didn't want them to do.

Thanks everyone, your responses have cleared up a lot in my mind.
I will report this.

Did you actually read what she said?

So this disgusting man sexually assaulted you on the way to the café and when the café was too busy he just went off home? He was a real peach wasn't he? I bet you were glad to see the back of him though.

does he genuinely think that was all ok?

I'm sure he thinks it was better than OK, an excellent evening's entertainment, and is dying to do it again. Going farther next time. He got away with sexually assaulting a woman who was being friendly (not in any way inviting assault).

From the sound of it, you were too stunned and/or embarrassed to tell him to drop dead. I can understand that, having had slightly similar experiences when I was young and unconfident.

As others have said, block and delete. And if it happens with anyone else, just end the date immediately.

For goodness sake you know this isn't acceptable ever. Its an assault. Don't see him again it could be much worse next time.

Victim blaming? How sad

And this attitude is why women frequently don't report his kind of assault.

Maybe I have misunderstood but I thought she said he touched her bum, put his hands down her trousers and then they kissed. If that's what happened I wonder whether he got the wrong end of the stick in the heat of the moment.

OP, only you know what the vibe was at the time.