Was this unacceptable?

[Clareroses]

I’ll start by saying I’m not very experienced in relationships, left a long relationships earlier this year and have just started looking to date.

I had a date yesterday, we arranged to meet in town for a coffee.
Met up, started walking to coffee shop, we went through a quiet bit of street and dateman grabbed and felt my bum, I pulled away.
We walked for a few more minutes, just talking normally, walking alongside each other before reaching an alleyway, I can’t remember how it all happened but he then reached his hands down my trousers and started feeling my bum, I tried to pull back, couldn’t, then eventually managed to physically moved his hands, we kissed and I started walking towards then end of the alley then he held me in a way that was a struggle to move and felt me up some more.

My head says none of that was acceptable, and it must have been clear I didn’t want it, yet he carried on, I didn’t say no, but I did pull away and keep moving his hands.
or did I confuse things as it was a date and when he went to kiss me I didn’t move.

Does anyone really think that’s ok on a first date?

which is part of my confusion, does he genuinely think that was all ok?

Almost certainly, he feels entitled to do what he wants with zero respect for you or your boundaries. After all you agreed to meet for coffee so you must be up for it, says his tiny mind.

Who give a fuck about signals, there was no consent. Don't minimise.

OP, your post has reminded me of experiences from long in the past and I want to warn you about how they affected me afterwards.

Please, don't start feeling ashamed, or thinking it was somehow your fault for "letting him" or "giving him the idea it was all right" or that nauseating expression "leading him on". Don't let anyone (including yourself!) gaslight you into thinking "Well, I let him kiss me, it's my fault for not stopping him".

Don't think about what you should have done, except as far as it helps you make sensible plans in case it happens again.

And remember, he got you in an alleyway. He could well have turned violent. You were very wise not to slap him. The safest response is to stay calm, as you did, and get away at the first safe opportunity.

God, I remember feeling not only shaken and hurt by the assault, but afterwards blaming myself for being basically too stunned and humiliated to do anything. I didn't tell anyone because I was ashamed!

I hope you get over this quickly, OP.

I'm not minimising! I am saying he is not a mind reader.

If she was struggling to get away, what man in his 40's (or any age) takes that as consent? Regardless of whether she kissed him back or not, does not allow him to stick his hand down her trousers in a back alley way. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't plan the route so they had to go down there in first place. Why not just suggest meeting at coffee shop? I'm sure its not the first tor last time he's done thus and should be reported

This! I would report this to the police

This happened to me and as others have said, I'm still upset about it, years later. The safest response is to remain calm and in fact I kind of froze... in disbelief? Fear? Just because you didn't slap him or shout NO does not mean you consented - and it means you got home safely. So sorry this rubbish still happens. I feel for you OP

Of course he’ll think it’s ok.
I mean you agreed in a date so you must be up for it no? And yes there are many men who think that way and know they will get away with it because who will report them?

If a woman removes your hand when you touch their bum, then it is a VERY CLEAR message that she would pin t be happy with him putting his hand in her trousers.
No need to be a mind reader!

Yet after that she kissed him.

Having read through the thread, it may have been through fright or disbelief that that happened. As I said before, only OP knows what went on and if it didn't feel right to her then it didn't feel right to her.

Best of luck OP. I hope you are OK.

Course he didn’t think it was ok.

Thats why he chose a quiet street and an alleyway to assault you.

Dacadactyl your posts are really worrying.

What sort of scroat tries to grope a stranger in an alleyway.

nope the kissing happened afterwards.
and I suspect it happened because in such a situation, people fight, fly, freeze or fawn.
and tbh I’m not sure that in such a situation, I wouldn’t have done the same. Just to protect myself.

This.
Sorry but it doesn’t sound as though he was opportunistic, he sounds like a predator. Had he chosen the meeting place and route?

Yes, he sounds like a scrote 100% I dont disagree with that at all.

All sex offenders are scrotes, but not all scrotes are sex offenders.

He touched her arse and put his hand down her pants before kissing her, without consent, down an alleyway. How the fuck do you think that any man should be allowed to do that without consent after meeting someone once? My god.

That's sexual assault. Are you OK? Please seek help. Also, please report this to the police. Even if it goes no further, it will show in the statistics.

If this date was arranged through a dating app or agency, you need to let them know too. If via a friend, let them know. He needs to told that this is not acceptable. I bet he's done it before and will do it again.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. None of it was acceptable or your fault.
If you feel strong enough, please seek advice/help from the police.
If you met via a dating app, please contact them and get him blocked/struck off.

Kissing him DID stop him, it caught him off guard briefly enough for the OP to be able to extricate herself and walk away. Unfortunately he grabbed her again. Luckily it sounds like by then it was too public for him to carry on so he went off in a sexually unsatisfied mood once they reached the café.

Like Watchkeys says - something along the lines of instinctive self-preservation fight or flight. Appease the abuser just long enough to escape. Albeit done subconsciously, instinctively.

I am so sorry you had to experience something like this so early in your dating journey @Clareroses. Please don’t feel bad about your actions. That guy should be feeling ashamed about his behaviour and apologising profusely for getting carried away. But he hasn’t. Instead, he’s contacting you to arrange another date!?? Nah.

Try to remember that if they can treat you so shittily (= selfish and don’t care about your feelings) then you can’t hurt their feelings by telling them to fuck off or doing whatever you need to do to safely extricate yourself from the situation at the earliest possible opportunity.

Ahh, I get why you’re confused. Your brain seems to have erased the important details about her removing his hand and trying to move away from him. Silly you, forgetting such an important part. 🙄

I think you should repot this to the police.

I think he planned the route. He assaulted you. He had no intention of having a coffee. Next time he may try to go further. Do not see him again. He is very dangerous.

@Dacadactyl are you mad??

OP please report this man. He assaulted you He sounds dangerous and more than likely he has done worse to other women and will continue this savage like behaviour.

I hope you are okay and have someone in RL to talk to? You did nothing wrong. Don't give up as there are nice men out there. Also if you have given him any personal details about where you live / work just be a bit careful. ❤️

Well a really good default assumption for a man would be that if he is going for coffee with a woman he has never met before, she is not going to want to be steered into an alley and have him put his hands down her trousers. Another really good default assumption is that she is going to be extremely upset about it.

Hope that helps, no mind reading required.

All sex offenders are scrotes, but not all scrotes are sex offenders.

This man is a sex offender. It’s not normal to shove your hand down a strangers pants in public. Who would be up for that? Stop sticking up for him Ffs.

That was assault.

It doesn't matter if you didn't say no. He needed to wait for an enthusiastic yes.