First cousin marriage

[Danceswithwhippets]

I don’t think I know (family or wider) anyone in a first cousin marriage.
I listened to this interesting podcast.
There is quite an ick factor about it -the podcaster (a “data journalist” -I didn’t know there was such a thing but I think we need them!) refers to it as a taboo. I suppose that maybe correct, if you do regard it as a part of the incest taboo.
She suggests the ick factor may be a reflection of racism, as first cousin marriage is now unusual in western societies.
What I find interesting is that although in western societies it’s largely frowned upon, few western countries legally prohibit it or restrict it.
Listen to what she says is the genetic evidence about risk -she seems to consider, for first cousin marriages, a doubling of risk of a major genetic problem from 3 to 4% (ie to 6 to 8%) is not great. I wouldn’t agree with that.
Any geneticists, or for that matter any first cousin marriages out there?

It's on BBC Sounds
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0ch1vn3#xtor=CS8-1000-%5BPromo_Box%5D-%5BNews_Promo%5D-%5BNews_Promo%5D-%5BPS_SOUNDS~N~p0ch1vn3~P_AmINormalCousinMarriage_SEG_PNC%5D

We were all questioning it and the lecturer asked how are you going to date someone who lives half a continent away who you've never heard of and are never likely to meet!
When you think about it, your soulmate might exist in this world but if he's living in North Korea, you ain't never going to meet him!

Come to think of it, I suspect my soulmate is in fact in North Korea as I haven't managed to find him yet. 😆

Probability of meeting your soul mate... it's not good. Take a read.

what-if.xkcd.com/9/

I was reading about 20 years ago about inbreeding is more common in tower blocks and estate flats. How there was more birth defects in deprived urban areas (especially in London), social workers put it down to accidental incest. Because the people don't leave the area much and would end up sleeping with their half siblings (no idea they were even related).

Globalisation changes things slightly but inter-continental/inter-racial marriages haven't been exponentially increased in line with the rate of globalisation.

Upper classes inbreed more than lower classes.

It's an odd one though. If you look at thoroughbred race horses for example? I've never heard of a 'slow' horse mixing with a 'fast' horse and producing a racing champion?

This is from the Cambridge dictionary about Thoroughbreds

(a horse) with parents that are of the same breed and have good qualities:

another definition:

thoroughbred
/ˈθʌrəbrɛd/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
(of a horse) of pure breed, especially of a breed originating from English mares and Arab stallions and widely used as racehorses.
"some riders will only buy thoroughbred horses"

I used to date a man from another country (European) and his mother once asked me whether I was pure-blooded (literal translation). 😆 It wasn't a term I had come across before as I was new to the language so I replied that I didn't know and then I asked my boyfriend what she meant when he came home from work. I knew that it was something relating to blood but I didn't have a dictionary with me or google.

He almost hit the roof and told his mother that she was never allowed to speak to me again (slight overreaction maybe but he was so angry). She was rather a nasty woman though. She hated me for some reason. Maybe my blood wasn't pure enough. 🙄

It's an odd one though. If you look at thoroughbred race horses for example? I've never heard of a 'slow' horse mixing with a 'fast' horse and producing a racing champion?

plenty of people have bought into the concept of mixing a non shedding, low allergy dog breed with a high shedding, high allergy breed and somehow getting a dog they won’t be allergic to and doesn’t shed at all?

shows how little people understand about genetics.

I think that there are educations which are more rounded outside of the UK. You'll get a good grasp of most subjects during your education in some countries. The UCAS system requires students to narrow their field to 3 or 4 A-levels (and it's not the only country). Students appear to specialise after their GCSEs so tend to have a good knowledge of a limited scope of subjects.

There are no good arguments for inbreeding.

I have close relatives, western family, who were married first cousins, one of their children had genetic birth defects. I find it more than ick, always have. Luckily I grew up closer to my other side of the family where first cousins are more like brothers and sisters.

Where is the smack causal racism? I don't think it's racist at all to speak up about the dangers of incest marriage / procreation.

There's a huge difference, if a couple are carriers of faulty genes who discuss / plan on having a baby. Presumably if they know they carry the genes, genetic testing / counselling can be done and the pros and cons can be weighed up whether to have a child. But that child wouldn't have to grow up with people bullying them because their first cousins decided to marry and procreate and due to their incestual relations, produce a child with disabilities.

A poor girl in my class was a product of 2 first cousins marrying. She suffered relentless bullying and name calling due to the incestual engagings of 2 first cousins. She speaks a lot more about it now and how it effected her. She has 2 younger brothers both with disabilities and the youngest will never live on their own. They need life long care.

It's not smack racism to say that it's wrong. Over time in western countries it will fizzle and have no place (as it's doing already)

It's morally wrong, a bit grim, and awful to risk a child being severely disabled and bullied for having incest parents - whether it's ethnic minorities or not. I'd say the same thing for 2 white British people doing the same thing. Especially if they are marrying cousins over many generations.

(This is my opinion on first cousin relations) as the cousins go down to 2nd, 3rd I guess it lessens the risk a bit thus blurring the lines.

I knew Irish people would be blamed for this. I'm Irish and I don't know anyone who married their cousin recently or in the past. Why is it a problem when an Irish person gets married to another Irish person? Someone on here clearly has an agenda when it comes to wanting Irish people to marry the English. Cousin marriages are common is Asian cultures and that's pretty much it.

What about age? I believe the risk of Down's Syndrome is one in 1,250 at 25 to 1 in 100 at 40 or 1 in 35 at 45. That's a massive increase and I say that as someone who had my first as a teenager and my last at almost 40. I didn't really think of the increased risk. Maybe I should have.

Yes, and widow burning, presumably

So you’ve never heard of Desert Orchid? Mother untraced by an untraced pedigree sire.

( for those who are too young or not interested, Desert Orchid was the greatest steeplechaser of the eighties/ nineties, multiple champion over different distances. The Queen Mother asked for him to lead her centenary parade - he did, he was a bit of a show off tbh.)

Bah thé mother was unraced obvs. They knew who she was, she lived in their paddock.

I have a child with a genetic condition and one of the first questions I was asked by the geneticist was if I was related to my child’s father. I’m of Irish origin and my dh is English and was very confused by the question. I now know that genetic conditions are over represented in some cultures because of cousin intermarriage. Marriage to a cousin should not be allowed because of the risk, it’s hard enough dealing with a random genetic condition but chosen to have children when there is a know risk is cruel.

Because we're all inbred idiots apparently? 😉

The risk related to age of the mother is lower if it's not the first child (don't ask me why). Rule of thumb re Downs Syndrome was have your first before 26 and your last before 36.

If you look at the stats for risks for second born babies and age, they're different to first born babies and age of the mother.

My aunt and uncle are cousins. She was based in England him in Scotland they got together in their 20s and went on to have 2 beautiful girls, who now have children of their own

It's vile and should absolutely be illegal.
Worked in a residential school for children with severe disabilities in an area where first cousin marriage is common.
The amount of selfish "parents" who had numerous children with horrendous life limiting conditions due to their disgusting interbreeding was just appalling!

My children’s cousins are from a 1st cousin marriage - 5 of them all very healthy