He's not committed to this is he?

[whattheactualfuckisgoingon]

Brief overview: just over 7 years together and young DC. Lots of issues going on, we desperately need some form of counselling to help us.

He has recently admitted to being in contact with another woman when our DC was a baby (flirting via message and "thought about" sleeping with her). We were having a lot of arguments and the relationship was under strain at that time due to new baby. This is his excuse for trying to sleep with someone else.

Trying to move past this, I've said let's try counselling. I've asked him to take the initiative to set up the first session. This was weeks ago and he has not yet done this. He has however temporarily moved out. We also had an opportunity recently at the weekend to have our first counselling session and instead, he went out with his mates and got absolutely streaming drunk to the point he couldn't stand up or form a sentence when he got home. He prioritised this over sorting a counselling session.

I've raised the issue of counselling again today and he claims "he hasn't had a chance yet" to sort it. It's literally an email to the counsellor on her website. It would have taken me a matter of minutes (but I'm not prepared to be the one who sorts this as I want some kind of effort from him).

He told me last night he does still want the family in his heart. Right so.... why the total lack of effort then?

Any advice? I can't let this go on, can I? How do I play this?

Earlier in the week he wanted to go out for a meal just me and him. I said ok but we need to talk about the issues in our relationship, I'm not prepared to sit and eat a meal with you and talk about trivial things and avoid the issues any longer. He took issue with that and got annoyed and frustrated with me. He wanted us to go out and pretend all is fine. He is so avoidant and it's the exact opposite of the person I am. I cannot just let conflict and issues slide and pretend they didn't happen - I need to talk about things and resolve them. He just wants it to go away overnight.

If he wanted to, he would.

He doesn't.

You both want different things, and that's where counselling helps. However if one refuses counselling then you have to either accept your relationship as it is (ie crap), or leave. You can't force him to change and he doesn't want to change. The ball is now in your court. Leave or stay the same?

He isn't refusing counselling. He is saying he is willing to engage with it. However he has got a very negative attitude towards it and not making any active efforts to arrange a session, which was what I asked him to do as a way of demonstrating his commitment to fixing the problems. Given that he is the one who has betrayed my trust and not the other way around.

So when I open a conversation with him about it, he replies with "yes I want to do it". But there's no follow through with his actions.

That's where we are at.

So where do I go from here? Any advice?

You have a choice re this man, your children do not.

What he says and what he actually does are two very different things. It's his actions and overall lack of that count here, not his words. He's likely only been telling you he wants counselling to keep you quiet and or for you to stop being on his case all the time.

Again, if he wanted to, he would!!

You are believing the words and not the actions.

He's telling you what you want to hear.

Wise up.

Oh sweetheart, I've just had exactly the same thing. It's all heartbreaking and a total mindfuck on top. I'm a few weeks further down the road.

Insisting, crying, begging, pleading that he wanted to try and save our relationship, but not doing anything towards that. It was killing me.

Re counselling, I managed to get him to attend a Relate infidelity crisis appointment. He basically refused to talk. Pointless.

After 5 weeks of this, I ended it. After he left he admitted he was in love with other woman and went straight to live with her.

Those 5 weeks of torture were him not having the guts to end it, and manipulating me into dumping him so he could play the victim.

I'm sorry it's happening to you.

Everyone is telling you the same thing, you need to listen. He really doesn't want to .. he's just trying to keep you 'sweet' by pretending that he will try counselling. Even if he did book the appointment he is unlikely to properly engage in it. You can't force him to commit to your idea of a happy relationship.

Of course it's tough, many of us have been through similar experiences but there is no point in over analysing everything and going over and over his behaviour I've been there. Concentrate on yourself and your DC and start making plans for your life as a single parent.

@Lieslies

Oh gosh I'm so sorry you went through that. How awful.

I've asked him if there is anyone else and he insists not. He swears blind in fact. He says he was messaging this woman briefly and that it ended months ago. But now I'm doubting this because why won't he make any effort to salvage us if there's no one else?

I haven't had any crying, pleading or begging either. I've had no emotional response whatsoever. I've had insistence that he wants to work on things. But no emotion and no actual steps to do anything about it. On top of which he has moved out temporarily (his decision). He's massively checked out, hasn't he.

You NEED to become stronger- not just for your child but for the sake of your own mental health. Think of the butterfly analogy- you have to let it go and if it returns willingly then you can consider at that point if that's what YOU want.

Surely you can't have this torturous limbo situation continue any longer? You will lose your mind and that is not what you deserve.

@Ruth0505

I like the butterfly analogy. You're right. I suppose I just have to go through emotional pain first as I process the loss. We were together a long time, we've been through a lot. I wish I could erase the memories so I could let it go without pain. But that's not going to happen is it. I have to feel the pain. 😔

I feel like you're going through what I went through at the beginning of this year. I wasn't thinking properly or putting myself first because of how low I felt and how desperate I was for the situation to be resolved and have my family back. All my friends told me the same thing people are telling you here but I didn't listen- and I should have.

Now I am stronger I'm able to think more clearly and in hindsight, I should've valued my self worth more. You WILL get through this. He may or may not get the kick up the backside he needs, but you will be fine!!

@Ruth0505

Do you mind me asking what happened in your situation? Did he come back or was that the end?

Yeah, this isn't you wanting to give the family a chance. It's you being dissatisfied with your partner, and needing to change him in order for the relationship to continue.

You don't get to be the authority on how he chooses to live his life. All you get to do is observe who he is, and act accordingly, in your own/your kids own best interests. Assume he won't change. That's the base from which to make your decisions.

He doesn't want to go because he probably knows you only want to go in order to tell him how wrong he is to be who he is, and try to make him be somebody else. Regardless of how reprehensible or unpleasant his chosen behaviours might be, you can see why he wouldn't be keen.

Have you asked him what he wants from counselling? What did he say? Or why haven't you asked?

What do you want or expect from talking about your relationship issues with him? Is he likely to reflect and take any responsibility? Are you prepared to accept that he might have some complaining of his own? Would he agree to acknowledge what's happening and make genuine efforts to put it right?
Talking can become going around in negative circles negatively loaded with firing guilt and shame at the other person. It's up to him to recognise and acknowledge these ( if he has them)then focus on solutions. That's if he's prepared to engage. If he isn't it looks like you need to move on.

@Watchkeys

Yes of course I've asked what he wants. The reply is always the same "I do want the family back but I just don't think it's going to be the same ever again". It's the same defeatist comments every time. Whereas I'm saying "well let's give it a try? We don't know at this point? It could help?" And he's all "hmmmm I don't know if it will...."

That's what I get every time I ask him.

He knows he's hurting you, he just doesn't care. He's wanting you to be the one to end it because he's too much of a coward. He wants you to be the bad guy. Him moving out of the home couldn't be any clearer, honestly.

I'm hoping that talking in counselling with a third party to facilitate will help him to reflect on the hurt he's caused me and make him realise what he stands to lose. I guess.

Yes I'm fully prepared that he might have complaints too. The thing is - when I have complaints I try to talk to him about them, I open a dialogue with him. He doesn't. He appears to bottle it all up and then look for someone else to sleep with. Hardly fair. How can I put right or work on what he won't discuss with me? So I'm hoping counselling will help him open up about anything thats bothered him about the relationship, too.

Just book the counselling and go together. The fact that he hasn't booked it and you had to book it can be something you discuss in counselling like "it made me feel like you didn't prioritise us when you didn't book counselling when we discussed it". And he may say something like "when you asked me repeatedly to book counselling it felt like you were testing me and trying to make me fail. It made me feel like I was already a failure".

Sorry but you're digging your heels in the sand about something which is also not helpful to a long term relationship. If the end goal is saving your family and you think counselling will help you do that then book it and go together.

If he refuses to go to counselling when you have booked it then that's another story.

He did come back in the end. The first thing I would say to you is that family/friends may be critical of decisions you make, but at the end of the day this is your family and your life. But always, always make sure your worth is being respected.

I went through months and months of (what I now recognise to be) shit behaviour; him always threatening to leave but not saying when, wouldn't give me a straight answer when I would ask him what he wanted, he had been texting a girl from work etc etc. It really was hell and I shouldn't have put up with it. He was going to therapy (for his own childhood trauma/ bereavement issues) so I had given him a LOT of leeway over the years with his behaviour. He wouldn't go to couples therapy with me.

There came a breaking point where I couldn't get any lower; I was off work with stress, I lost a significant amount of weight and I was constantly a ball of anxiety. It HAD to end. I somehow found the strength to sit him down and as much as I was desperate for a happy family life, I knew I had to be firm and tell him it was done. I genuinely didn't care by that point, and you won't either.

He only then wanted to change. Everyone was extremely sceptical that he could change (and I don't expect any miracles either) but so far, so good in terms of progress. I would never let this situation come around again- you ARE going to be fine.

I know it's easy to say LTB, I can understand you wanting to try - even if it doesn't work out it is much easier to process if you feel you tried what you could.

Fwiw my option would be to spell out the consequences to him. Eg that what he wants (to avoid the situation and avoid his feelings, I can't help but think the getting blind drunk is part of that) and stay in the relationship isn't a possibility.

That actions speak louder than words so his proclamations of wanting things to work are meaningless if his behaviour contradicts what he is saying.

So the consequences/options are:
He comes up with a realistic plan to work things out (whether that's couples counseling or something else that works for you)
That he continues as he is, which would inevitably mean the relationship disintegrating.

If he has a fear that counselling is going to end the relationship (his fear of it failing) he needs to consider that the alternative route will also end the relationship, and will do so much quicker. From what you've posted I don't think he's accepted that's the truth yet.

Sorry you’re going through this OP. It sounds like you’re in a lot of pain and turmoil and my heart goes out to you and your family. Have you laid it out plainly to him ie. ‘the fact that you’re not bothering to make the effort to book a counselling session shows that you’re not committed to this relationship and if that’s the case then what am I meant to do?’. His actions do seem to indicate that he’s checked out but sometimes the messiest of situations can be resolved by honest communication and willingness to recommit to the relationship on both sides. If you can get yourselves to a counselling session somehow then at least you’ll feel like everything possible was done to salvage the relationship for the sake of your kids and your own peace of mind. However, it he doesn’t want to meet you halfway then the writing’s on the wall.

He has checked out and moved on.

Listen to what he is telling you, it will never be the same and he has moved out.

Family life is not what he wants.

The sooner you accept your reality and start actively protecting yourself the better.

I am so sorry for you but he has really checked out.

He has always been immature and emotionally avoidant.

This is who he is.
His behaviour is consistent with that.

Reach out for support and start making realistic plans.

Well you can't LTB because he's already left. His head's elsewhere at present and he's stringing you along OP. Get angry, he isn't fighting for your marriage one little bit.

Start putting yourself first, start planning for you and your DC.

He wants the family life without any of the responsibility that comes with it.

Cut your losses, it's been 7 years and nothings changed. He can't even be bothered to make a phone call to make an appointment. The bar is set so low for him that he continues to get away with this crappy behaviour.