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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

My narc mother. How do I get through this?

51 replies

AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 17:33

In practical terms really. I have to cut contact with her. I realise there is no way through. She was very close to one of my children and was doing her best to manipulate him. She knows she can’t see him and has told him to pretend that she’s just on holiday for the moment.

I don’t know what to say to him, other than I wasn’t happy with Nan’s behaviour and that I don’t trust her to make good decisions. He keeps asking when he can see her.

Also from my own point of view do I treat this as a bereavement? I don’t know how to proceed.

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 30/09/2022 18:39

Can you think of equivalents that he may understand?

Eg: if someone kicked a puppy again and again...and then said sorry, should we forgive them? Should we trust them with our puppy?

'Its hard to explain to someone else sometimes, why someone's behaviour is not OK. But know that I love you and only want to protect you. So gran has to stay away from us both. So we can both be safe'

FromageRouge · 30/09/2022 18:40

How old is your DS?

Original poster
AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 18:44

Pinkbonbon · 30/09/2022 18:39

Can you think of equivalents that he may understand?

Eg: if someone kicked a puppy again and again...and then said sorry, should we forgive them? Should we trust them with our puppy?

'Its hard to explain to someone else sometimes, why someone's behaviour is not OK. But know that I love you and only want to protect you. So gran has to stay away from us both. So we can both be safe'

Thanks for replying - I don’t know what to say to him really because he’s quite sort of literal and from his point of view she’s delightful. He’s the Golden Grandchild. She doesn’t bother at all with his twin, or other sibling. He’s 12 and older sibling is 14. The other two don’t like her, and she says are rude to her. They’re not, but they also don’t kiss up to her either where this son does.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 18:44

FromageRouge · 30/09/2022 18:40

How old is your DS?

12, but quite a young 12.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 18:45

I’ve just checked his phone and it seems she has been FaceTiming him and he says that she has told him that she’s asked me can she see him but I haven’t replied to her. She most certainly hasn’t - she knows I’d say no - but see how she’s made me the villain again.

OP posts:
FromageRouge · 30/09/2022 19:14

You could say that emotional health and good relationships are so important that you have had to draw a line to protect the family, because Grandma won’t behave appropriately. That sneakiness and manipulative behaviour aren’t things any of us should accept from any of our relationships.

Pinkbonbon · 30/09/2022 19:36

As he's is 12, I'd just straight up say 'she didn't ask me. So she has lied to you. And about me. Another example of how her behaviour isn't OK. I don't want you talking with her because she is not a good person. She treats your brothers badly and you, well. Can you see how that is manipulative? How that might even cause arguments between you and your brothers. That is her intention. My whole life she has behaved in these similar, devious, fake, manipulative ways. Life is far to short to stay around people like that and I don't want her to mess up your childhood like she did mine. That's why I don't want her near you. Because ultimately, she hurts people. Always'.

Original poster
AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 19:51

I know that’s all true - but it also feels rather brutal for him. He really loves her.

OP posts:
thejadefish · 30/09/2022 20:04

I agree that you should tell your son that she didn't ask you. Presumably (hopefully) he sees that he is treated differently to his siblings, and perhaps you can say that you have noticed this, discussed it with Nan but she can't or won't change her behaviour and it's not healthy (I see that you have already mentioned her behaviour now that I read again, which I think was the right thing to do). Insofar as yourself is concerned I think considering it a bereavement is a good idea. It is a bereavement really. We all want a good relationship with our parents that involves love, respect and give and take, and even as grown ups we still want their approval. You don't have this (and it's not a big ask imo). Your children don't have the sort of grandparent that they deserve either despite your trying your best so it is a loss. You are putting your family first, doing what is best for them but it's still going to hurt. Whatever helps you through it, do, and take comfort in the fact that you are protecting your children x

Original poster
AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 21:01

Thankyou. That’s reassuring.

my head is such a mess, I’m trying to get it clear in my mind in a way that makes sense. I’ve read everything I can get my hands on and knew she was a narcissist for years but it’s been the posts from a lady that popped up on tiktok on my fb page that sent me over the edge. She absolutely will not be happy for me. My life is tons better than it was, I’m in a happy relationship after a horrible marriage and divorce and she hates it. I can’t imagine ever treating anyone like that let alone my own child. It’s all rather mind bending.

OP posts:
Felixfeather223 · 30/09/2022 21:13

AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 19:51

I know that’s all true - but it also feels rather brutal for him. He really loves her.

@AnightwiththeTiger I know it’s very tough, and you do have to be gentle, but I think you need to be as honest as possible. If your mother is a narcissist that won’t suddenly disappear when interacting with your DC. If she really is abusive, she could absolutely harm him too, or could model some troubling behaviour as well that he may later copy.

My DF hid my “D”GFs hurtful and harmful behaviour towards him and DM from us children. It was well intentioned but it had the unfortunate effect of making us complicit in some of DGFs more unpleasant behaviour towards our parents. It’s something I’ve felt guilty about ever since. Keeping your Narc mother’s true intentions and behaviours from your DC may not be a morally neutral as you imagine, if you find her difficult to manage and disentangle yourself from, what hope has a 12 year old of doing a better job? If you a least give him some tools to notice what’s happening that could be useful.

FromageRouge · 30/09/2022 21:22

AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 19:51

I know that’s all true - but it also feels rather brutal for him. He really loves her.

It’s an unfortunate thing that has happened.

If you don’t give him some kind of context for it, you’re both kicking the can down the road, and setting him up for further confusion. I appreciate that this is easy to say and harder to do.

It’s a bit like if the house burnt down. You can either explain what’s happened, discuss it, emotionally support the children and so on. OTOH, you could try the (terrible) old fashioned thing of pretending the fire never happened and refusing to talk about it. The fire still happened. The children are aware there’s an issue. So it’s a choice of guide them or don’t.

All of that really goes against the grain when you’ve spent a whole life not talking about X, though. I do understand.

picklemewalnuts · 30/09/2022 21:27

We explained it age appropriately to our DSs as and when it cropped up.
You could say- in lots of different occasions, not all in one go-things like:

I realised Granny was lying to us about lots of things, and she won't agree to stop it.

Sometimes people aren't good at family relationships, they only want what is good for just them. Granny has been trying to upset our family so we have lots of fights, because she wants to be the favourite and make you cross with me. She doesn't want us to all get on and be happy.

Granny isn't very good at doing what is best for other people, she wants to do things that work for her, even if they upset everyone else.

You know how some people at school are very clever at getting other people in trouble, or making other people fall out? Granny is that kind of person.

picklemewalnuts · 30/09/2022 21:32

Add in,

'I'm really sad that I let granny play her games, and get you to really love her. I didn't really understand what she was doing until recently. I didn't have a mummy and Daddy that always put me first, like you have, so I didn't realise there was something wrong.'

You could also try 'Having you children, and knowing I would always put you first, made me realise that Granny isn't like that and that's not right. If Granny loved me like I love you, she wouldn't do the things she does.'

At heart he knows she isn't quite right.

beonmywaythen · 30/09/2022 21:36

I think a lot of these are way too much for a 12 year old. Just say he isn't to have any contact with her because you dont trust her and need to protect them. End of. Too much explanation is just going to keep the fuckedupedness of it all going. When he's older and if he asks then you may explain more but block her on his phone.

LittleOwl153 · 30/09/2022 21:37

You need to stop her contacting him. Otherwise you are going to have her taking him to live with her because you are the evil monster keeping him from her.

FromageRouge · 30/09/2022 21:43

A couple of sessions with a family therapist might be a good investment, if possible OP. A professional opinion on how to give him context wouldn’t hurt.

Thosefuckers · 30/09/2022 21:54

I’m sorry but it’s not difficult to see why your mother would be bypassing your requests. You need to think about who is currently in charge here, because it doesn’t sound like you are.

Original poster
AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 22:05

Thosefuckers · 30/09/2022 21:54

I’m sorry but it’s not difficult to see why your mother would be bypassing your requests. You need to think about who is currently in charge here, because it doesn’t sound like you are.

That’s sadly how it feels. I could cheerfully throw up now, with the realisation of it all. And then a second later I’m second guessing myself that I’m over reacting, it’s not that bad, she isn’t that bad, I’m just cruel and mean etc

OP posts:
Original poster
AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 22:08

It’s all such a mess. My brother and his kids are coming down soon, they stay with me but they come to visit her too and that sends a weird message that their cousins can see her but my children can’t.

We have fallen out so many times, her behaviour has been astonishing but no amount of reasoning with her makes any difference because she just resolutely believes what she believes.

OP posts:
FromageRouge · 30/09/2022 22:11

AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 22:05

That’s sadly how it feels. I could cheerfully throw up now, with the realisation of it all. And then a second later I’m second guessing myself that I’m over reacting, it’s not that bad, she isn’t that bad, I’m just cruel and mean etc

Show quote history

Give yourself a day or two to get if all straight in your own head. You’ve made a big move away from the dynamic. It’s not a small thing.

Petronus · 30/09/2022 22:16

Sounds awful. Start by getting your son a new phone number that she does not have.

Original poster
AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 22:18

Thankyou - we haven’t spoken since a bitter row in august. I’ve been reading and listening to Helen Villiers on InSight and there seems to be no way of having antihng like a normal relationship. She is an absolute study of narcissism right down to my constantly feeling that she doesn’t even know me. Ive let things go so many times or been hoovered back in. I have so many questions and I don’t know even if they can ever be answered. Maybe that’s where I should start with unpicking it and then I can understand WHY she’s like this! Why she can’t be happy for me.

OP posts:
Lollypop701 · 30/09/2022 22:42

Because she can only be happy for herself. Those that suck up to her make her happy and those who don’t are punished. There’s no middle ground, and she won’t change

Minimalme · 30/09/2022 23:14

AnightwiththeTiger · 30/09/2022 22:08

It’s all such a mess. My brother and his kids are coming down soon, they stay with me but they come to visit her too and that sends a weird message that their cousins can see her but my children can’t.

We have fallen out so many times, her behaviour has been astonishing but no amount of reasoning with her makes any difference because she just resolutely believes what she believes.

I think you may find it difficult to keep a relationship with your brother too.

He is likely to be used by your Mother to put pressure on you to "come back".

I would share some of the mean shit she's pulled over the years with your son.

I did with my ds around that age and when I finally went NC with my Mother, he was 14 and wanted nothing more to do with her. He was also golden grandchild.