My narc mother. How do I get through this?

[AnightwiththeTiger]

In practical terms really. I have to cut contact with her. I realise there is no way through. She was very close to one of my children and was doing her best to manipulate him. She knows she can’t see him and has told him to pretend that she’s just on holiday for the moment.

I don’t know what to say to him, other than I wasn’t happy with Nan’s behaviour and that I don’t trust her to make good decisions. He keeps asking when he can see her.

Also from my own point of view do I treat this as a bereavement? I don’t know how to proceed.

Also, explain the effect Nan has in you. For example "she used to tell me I wasn't good at anything and it made me feel sad and worthless" rather than focussing on events which she will dispute, for example "Nan fell out with me in the summer".

Yes but why though? Like, why not be happy that your child is happy? Why is my happiness an affront to her? It’s like she can only be happy or approve of my life if I do exactly as she says, which funnily enough, is stuff that makes me miserable!

She’s fundamentally damaged and doesn’t “work” properly.

The “why?” stage is quite understandable but it probably won’t yield any answers.

See that’s the thing - she hasn’t specifically been that open. It’s more subtle. But nonetheless awful. Such as siding with my ex, despite his abuse of me. Telling me it was my fault my marriage broke down and that I should have tried to make myself look nicer for him. That sort of thing. Sabotaging things. Cutting me off if I dared say no to anything she asked “because I hardly ask for anything.”

Basically she is the lead actress in her drama, you are there in a supporting role.
Every time you step away from her script you are spoiling the play. You aren't supposed to have plot lines of your own, let alone an actual life. You exist to feed her lines, to appreciate her marvellousness and generally reflect glory on her.

When you don't, you are deliberately sabotaging her life, being deliberately difficult. She simply can't compute that you aren't playing your part.
You must be broken.

It’s the way she is. @Lollypop701 has described my mother and father to a T. ( think mother was narcissist and father, who was a very weak man, just copied her) I sort of always knew that was how they behaved but seeing it in black and white —- I was right all those years ago.
Start with a new phone and phone number for DS, without her number in it. ( if you block he can unblock) and small amounts of explanation.
Best thing I ever did was cut my toxic parents out of our lives.

Unfortunately no one matters in your mums life other than her. There is no other answer. . You got a good job, only relevant if she values that role and/or can brag about it to her friends so it reflects well on her. You got divorced, her friends might comment negatively on this, so you are at fault for not staying married because someone might say something about her (doesn’t matter if you are happy or not, it isn’t about you at all ) . You can’t ever make her happy unless you do exactly as she dictates, even if what she wants makes you or her dgc miserable. Only thing I can offer you is you cannot change anyone else, only your reaction to them. If you can afford it, get therapy. Good luck x

I think you need to realise your child is 12 and has the right to a relationship with a grandmother! You may feel she is narcisstic but a qualified professional assessing her may have a different opinion. Also the grandparent/grandchild relationship is not likely to be quite the same as the one you two have. What I would be concerned about is making sure both (I have not read all through this but a quick look suggests you have two kids). children are given the same opportunity to connect with her if this is their wish. Your job as the parent is to facilitate this fairly and without animosity provided their is no imminent danger to the children. You need to address any matters that come up in contact with your children and your mum. In the meantime you need to continue to work on yourself to gain healing.

@ThistThistlelass as the grandparent, she has no rights. Ops job is not to facilitate anything, her job is to protect all her children. By removing herself and all her children from a manipulative influence who op says favours one child over others, op is doing a sterling job.
Op, I've been the unfavoured child, it's shit. The golden child is nasty and miserable so no happy endings anywhere.
Please find the strength to go no contact with your mother before she poisons your son against you and their siblings. You're ahead of the game by recognizing the twisted dynamic so do something positive.
Explain to all your kids that granny is not being kind. Definitely get him a new number.
Good luck

Where did I say the grandmother had a right? What I said was at 12 years old a child's views need to be considered. I am not withdrawing that opinion. Emotional abuse and neglect is dreadful and I have experience of it personally. I think it is very disabling in adult life but we can find recovery. No , I would not prevent a 12 year old in that situation from having access to his grandmother. I would allow him the relationship but over time explain how her mothering had badly impacted on the op. It is up to that 12 year old to work/not work on understanding the situation.

That’s an interesting perspective. I don’t agree through. My mother’s sense of entitlement and her compulsion to kick through every boundary I set, forms the backdrop to this and I’ve explained to my son that I’m his mum and I need to make sure that I can trust everyone that he comes into contact with - school, rugby practice, scouts, friends’ parents etc and Nanna is no different and I don’t trust her to respect what I say. He said (tearfully) that he recognises that she doesn’t respect my opinion but thinks that because she is my mum, then she is the boss of me AND him.

She’s called today actually, and left me a message about wanting to see the children this week - but she has only tried to contact this one. The other two don’t get a look in, nor do they want to really. They’re not interested in her and consequently she doesn’t bother with them much.

re boundaries, I have told her repeatedly “don’t call unannounced” FOREVER. I hate it and I always have. I could not be clearer. She’s just called and left parcels on the step and driven off.

If 12 year old had seen her he would have been hugely emotional and wanted to go with her. And see who is the baddie again?

Of course I respect your stance as his mum. I would see it that his most formative years have been spent being guided by one healthy parent,you. Your mother therefore is unlikely to be able to vent significant emotional damage on him at this time. Also he is fast in adolescence and likely to be kicking back against you in a few respects. Just give it some thought about how much you may be projecting your memories and fears onto his shoulders. I personally did have an abusive mother and it seems her antics damaged me significantly. She did though appear to fair a little better in respect of my own 5 children and she certainly valued them emotionally and physically though not always perfectly. I guess you have to weigh up the possible risks versus possible benefits, which I think you will be doing. Good luck x

I am so sorry @AnightwiththeTiger that you are having to deal with this situation.

I would tell my child that we have something important to discuss.
This is not an off the cuff, spur of the moment conversation, you need to prepare and have appropriate arguments. Write a sort of schedule to stick to so your emotions do not trip you. Deliver a supportive, simple and clear message.

Use specific examples to discuss how your mother's behaviour affects the family. make him see how his siblings, his cousins, everyone, is impacted. Review with him this 'special relationship' she has with him, understandably, from his point of view being the special one night not be so bad, but children have an innate instinct about what is right and what is wrong and they understand that putting boundaries around a person's bad behaviour makes the world a safer and fairer place for everyone.
Be open to questions and also about the fact that this is a difficult and unusual situation.
Encourage him put his own words and thoughts on it all.
Explain to him what the consequences of their behaviour are for this person and how your family is going to deal with this.

Make clear to him what the procedures are from now on with phone calls, social media, visits, holidays, family reunions, the lot. Absolutely stick to this.

He needs to know that it is your responsibility and that you are making this decision for him. Watch out for any sense of guilt he could have or that could be encouraged by you-know-who.

Yes, this is a bereavement. You are burying the hope that this person can ever be a normal, caring mother and grandmother.

At 12 you only have a narrow window of opportunity.
Act quickly, or watch your mother have an absolute ball 'supporting' your DS in his teenage years,. This is not a drill.

No one would ever wants to have to think the way we have to. There is no way you can make this situation palatable or easy, or even have the perfect conversation with your DS about it.

Take practical steps to make 100% sure that your mother cannot contact him in any way without going through you. If only it were, as @Thosefuckers thinks, a simple matter of laying the law! Be vigilant and take into account that she is devious, determined and has probably little else to do. If and when she does contact him, stamp down immediately on anything inappropriate and explain to your DC why it is inappropriate.

Unlike you, I did not understand my mother's personality. I was misguided enough, as@Thistlelass is, to think that I should not deprive my DC of, or 'spoil', her relationship with my mother.
I completely failed to recognise we were in a war. My DC is now paying the price, living every single day with the results of my mother's abuse. Do not make the mistake I have made.

@AnightwiththeTiger there is no reason WHY she is incapable of being happy for you, or have a reasonable relationship with you and your DCs, she just isn't capable of it. It takes a lifetime to accept to see how grotesque these personalities are. I hope you make the most of your painfully acquired knowledge.
Good luck. 💐

Can I just say that each of my 5 children, now adults, function very well in society and have not been harmed by their relationship with my parents. It is I who have suffered and had to deal with the effects of emotional abuse/neglect. Important to consider one's own case carefully and not assume that what happened in somebody else's situation will.happen for you too. No more to say from me.

I am happy to hear that none of your children have been harmed by their relationship with your parents@Thistlelass. You were in fact not misguided in your choices for your family, I apologise for the way I've expressed my thoughts and hope I've not offended you,.

Your advice; 'important to consider one's own case carefully and not assume that what happened in somebody else's situation will.happen for you too..' goes both ways. Fortunately for your children nothing bad came out of it, unfortunately for one of mine it's been catastrophic. In my experience it certainly is not common for a grandchild to be badly affected by a grandparent, but it happened to us. Why are you advising OP to ignore the risks, when you've personally experienced the toll this type of person takes? All for the sake of a disruptive relationship for all the family as well.

In OP's case, one child is 'targeted' as the 'golden grandchild' out of her three siblings and out of all the other grandchildren.There is already a pattern in place. The circumstances were exactly the same with my DC, exactly the same pattern, so it's worth noting, I think and it absolutely raises my concern.
No one is assuming anything and by the look of it OP is making sure that what happened to us will not happen to her family.

I messaged and said “Thankyou for the parcels, however I need space.” She said “I hear you, but when can I see the children?” I said that’s the point, you don’t hear me, I don’t want you to call unannounced for example and yet you just did. So she said that she thought that it would be ok because she just left stuff on the step and I said it wasn’t, so she said what if she posted things. I said there was no need to send anything thanks.

Notice how this is about what SHE wants. And not a word about WHY she’s been kept away from them, or changing her behaviour towards me etc.

I don’t think, to be clear, she would deliberately physically hurt them of course. But I don’t trust that she has their best interests at heart. And I know for a fact she doesn’t have mine at heart, so why would I let her near my children? It’s made me unwell this week, ruminating on the headfuckery of it all.

Yes, sorry OP but you are still treating her like a reasonable person and being surprised when she isn't.

Treat her like a toddler in an adult body. Clear rules (stay away).
Distraction (look a squirrel)
Don't get into negotiations

When you have to engage,
Be consistent
Encourage her to talk about herself

At all times use grey rock. Don't give her anything to work with. Stay superficial. Let go of the rope.

And keep your son busy and distracted, too.

Don't let avoiding your mother become the focus of family life.

Don't let avoiding your mother become the focus of family life.

Thankyiu. That’s particularly helpful as I find myself ruminating on it all.

It’s very worrying that you say if your son had seen her he would become emotional.

block her number from his iPad immediately. Stop talking about the woman and do not accept gifts.

whatever she left on your step return back to her

find a back bone this woman is currently causing emotional harm to your son. He’s confused, sad and anxious about her. She’s already damaged him. You have watched on helplessly

block her number. Don’t engage.

if she persists in trying to contact you tell her you will seek advice from 101 for harassment she’ll soon get the message

you can’t help this woman she is dysfunctional and will remain so. You’ll never please her as she’s jealous, bitter and bordering on evil!

Op its difficult. I tried boundaries too. I have her for xmas this year. I dont tell her much now you dont know whats said back to siblings.. its hard as you say.

I think you need to take the emotion out of it for a minute. Write down factually what she has done to make you feel as you do. So she undermined me by saying x, she called me these names, she did x. I found this really helpful in seeing that I was right in feeling the way I did. If someone else had given me my list I would have said no this is not how you should be treated. In our situation it was our in-laws, it all felt so in fair and if I thought about it too much I found it deeply upsetting. With the dc we would say they are not kind to us, they do not want us to be happy and so we are not seeing them. Your ds can see that she is not equal in her love and support to all in your family and he should understand that this is not kind. It is a long hard road but you have to make sure that she does not put a wedge between your dc.

Many narcissists use gift giving and gifts as a means of exerting control. Do not return any gifts to her because that is a response from you and that to such a person is the reward. Instead dispose of them via a charity shop.
Shred all cards and letters she may send too and without opening.

Your mother is not at all interested in what you want, only what she wants and that is for your son to give her lots and lots of narcissistic supply. She is not interested in him either, only what he can give her. She must not be able to contact your son in any way, shape or form. She is really trying to steal his heart and mind away from you, his mother. Whoever called her evil is bang on here.

Your mistake here was to at all allow a relationship between your mother and your children in the first instance but you are not the first adult child of a narcissist to fall into such a trap and you will not be the last.

Op I'm going through an identical situation at the moment. I've been almost NC for 6 weeks now. It's sad and I keep going back and forth in my mind also but always come back to knowing its not right. She also has a golden grandchild, my eldest dd. I sympathise!

So, she messaged my son to say “did you like the present” but he didn’t see the message and I deleted it. He had said to her that I’d said he would never see her again. I certainly didn’t say that, and I told her what I said which was that I don’t believe that I can trust her to respect me or my decisions and that if she carried on trying to manipulate I’d cut her off.

Her reply was very telling - complete denial that she was being manipulative. Not a word about ways in which she could change her behaviour or be respectful or even exploring what I meant by that.

im also listening to a series of podcasts called InSight with Helen Villiers and I’m exhausted and blown away by what a perfect study she is.

It looks like this is the extend of her self-awareness and of her wish to make things palatable then.

She really doesn't mind upsetting your son, does she?