I know the answer. He won't change, will he?

[AnotherCountryMummy]

DP has a history of lying about his ex wife. Over the past few years, I've uncovered multiple lies, or omissions of truth.

The latest being DP going for drinks with 'male friends' but inviting his ex wife along and not telling me. But also deleting messages so I don't find out.

So as not to drip feed, its not really a problem if she did attend these events. My main problem is the lying. Which I've made very clear when this has previously happened. But he seems to continue to do it.

He can't explain why. I don't think anything is going on. I suspect maybe he misses her socially. But he denies this.

I was home looking after the baby. He had multiple opportunities to tell me she attended. Such as the next day when we had a lovely conversation about the evening and I enquired who was there.

If I've made it plainly clear that I don't like being lied to and that it's not okay, but he continues to do it, he doesn't respect me, does he? He won't change? Should I end it? I feel like such a mug and so deeply hurt and disrespected.

He won’t change. Sorry 💐

Thank you. I knew the answer but it still hurts so much 😣

What is their relationship like? Why did they break up? It seems a very odd situation. I dont think he will change, unless there is a specific reason she is attending eg she owns the pub.

No, he won’t change. You live with it, or not.

A courteous, co-parenting relationship generally. Some ups and downs over child related things.

They had a sexless marriage and he eventually left because he was unhappy. The rowed a lot. She's had a couple of short term relationships, but nothing serious that I know of. She was extremely angry and bitter when he first left her.

He phoned her to join because he thought she'd like to come and drink with his friends. Because she knows them from when they were married.

That's weird, isn't it? Then lying about it is even worse...?

You deserve better, this is very disrespectful, he can't even tell you the truth to your face! If there is no trust there is no relationship in my opinion and he is certainly taking advantage of your trust. Why does he feel like he needs to lie in the first place if there isn't anything to it and why is he deleting messages? I'm not saying anything is going on with them as you say you don't suspect that yourself but it's just suspicious. Sounds like he won't change if this has happened more than once over the past few years and he is continuing :( the saddest part is you are at home looking after the baby and he is out having fun with his ex of all people! Why does she need to be there if it is supposed to be "male friends" does it not occur to him to take you out too and arrange a baby sitter perhaps. Overall you definitely do not have to put up with this and I hope you do what's right for you and the baby

Thank you, this is exactly what I'm thinking. It's good to have it validated.

I said exactly that to him! Why couldn't I go too and why did he feel inclined to invite his ex but not me?!

The saddest thing is that I had a really bad back at the time and struggled with baby's bath and bed time whilst he was living it up with her. I encouraged him to go because I thought a boys night out would do him good. I'm such a mug.

What other lies has he told about the ex wife?

Mostly about meeting her. He lied and said he was taking his DDs to the beach with a male friend and actually went with her and the children!

And there have been a couple of lower level "omissions of truth". He hasn't explicitly lied but he's been in social situations with her and deliberately not told me she was there. Such as a kids school play that he implied he was watching alone but went with her.

There is a mix bag of complaints here.
But it’s clear yju have a massive problem with him being around his Ex, despite knowing it was a sexless marriage and he left her.
And he doesn’t feel he can mention Ex without you making it a drama and blowing it out of proportion.

They co-parent. Obviously they’ll be at the same place with kids - interrogating him about their kids play and giving him a hard time about her attendance isn’t really a normal behaviour. No wonder he tries to avoid mentioning her at all costs.
I don’t know why he invited her to the boys evening. Maybe he felt guilty for leaving her.
Who knows.

If you really think he is angling to get back together with her - you obviously need to leave.
Otherwise - you need to realise that part of your reaction is an irrational jealousy. Maybe you need to talk to him to understand why he is behaving the way he is - is it out of guilt? is it for the sake of kids? Etc
Another part - is maybe him not doing his share to help you. And that obviously needs addressing.

Interesting theories here.

What makes you think I've given him a hard time, blown things out of proportion, interrogated him or made a drama?

@AnotherCountryMummy

You clearly interrogate him - as attendance of his Ex is discussed and uncovered and talked about. And his ‘lying’ about it seems to be discussed just as well.

Just because you don’t sit him in front of a spot light while asking questions - doesn’t mean it’s not interrogation.
And he clearly isn’t able to communicate with you on this issue.

As to blowing things out of proportion - you are upset his Ex was there watching their kids school play. And for some reason that even needed a discussion too.
And now you are here discussing whether to leave him over this.

You have a baby with someone who has an Ex and shares children with her. You clearly have an issue with his past relationship. Was his courteous relationship with Ex not apparent while you dated?

I’ll repeat what I said - if you actually think he is cheating - leave. If you are unhappy in a relationship - leave. But if you are just hoping to erase his past by controlling his interactions with Ex - at least stop and think why. And talk to him. You may feel less insecure if you understand what he is feeling/thinking.

I didn't say I was upset that his ex wife watched a school play. Are you okay? I didn't say there was a discussion around it either. I merely used it as an example of where he omitted the truth.

I don't get why you're being quite so aggressive. This is the relationships board, not AIBU.

Like I stated in my OP, the problem is not the meeting with the ex, is the lying. I actually have a good relationship with the ex, think she's a nice woman etc. I just don't like being lied to. I'm certainly not trying to erase his past - that's a ginormous conclusion to jump to.

For the record, I didn't find out about this incident through interrogation or spy work, his DD told me.

I was with someone who lied for no reason. For 15 years I put up with it. I certainly didn't interrogate, the lies came out over time. As an example it would be 'did you have a nice evening last night? How's Jim and his wife Jane' I would get the response 'Jim couldn't make it but I was with Barry, Bob and Bill' conversation would go on. A few weeks later, something would come up and I would find out that Jim was actually there. The lie was pointless, just an omission of the truth but going out of his way to say the lie.

It eventually turned into lying about picking up the last tin of beans in tescos and having to go to 3/4 shops to find said tin. (I kid you not).

He lied about absolutely everything, with no reason. I ended up having to call lies out in front of people because they were so ludicrous that if I colluded in the lie I was just as bad.

I hate to tell you, but they don't change, the lies get more frequent you get to the point where if they tell you it's raining, you will double check.

I think lying (in my ex's case at least) was such an ingrained behaviour that it can't and won't change. He knows he lies and has even mentioned (lied) about getting therapy for it!

I know too well that frustration, but I also understand you have a baby and feel that lying in this way may not be a deal breaker for you. With hindsight, I wish I had left him a long time ago, as his lies are now affecting my children

Yes it is the lying. If it is all innocent then why lie? If he lies about this then what else has he lied about?
You need to talk. You need to listen to each other and he needs to tell you why he is lying. Otherwise it's no good

MMmomDD - you're being a total a**e. What's your problem? Stop twisting what she's saying and putting words in her mouth. It's clear OP has reason to be unhappy about his lying/omitting the truth. It sounds dodgy af to me, to be honest.

OP, May I ask how and when you met? I'm not suggesting you had an affair but the line 'she's not interested in sex' does seem like a stereotypical thing a man looking for extramarital sex/relationships will say (according too all novels and films, anyway!). If this is the case, it would make sense that your suspicions might be aroused when he's lying about socialising (not including attending school plays MMmomDD, before you jump down my throat) with his ex without telling you

I hate being lied to.
My DP kissed a woman on a night out with mates (who I don't know) and then came home immediately and admitted it to me.
The weird thing was I was so glad he told me that I didn't actually care about the kiss. So even though I've given a weird example- I get you completely.
Don't have any advice though except explain it again and possibly do what I did:
When DP lied to me (ages ago). I told him I was leaving - and that I would come back when he could be honest.
He completely freaked and changed that day. I think it woke him up.
Good luck. And skip baby bath time when you have a bad back. It's not worth it xxx
Xx

I understand frustration with lying. Had an ex who did that over pointless things - lying by omission. And then tell me I hadn't asked the very specific question that led to the very specific answer...

It came to a head over a friend of his who he would always lie about meeting. So I went from having no issues with this person to driving myself crazy with paranoia and frustration - till I realised he was the cause. Not the friend. So I left him and it was such a relief to not constantly feel the need to double check every response, and just go back to taking people at face value.

I think like a pp, his behaviour was ingrained since childhood. He grew up in a joyless, strict household where mistakes were punished, so lying was a survival strategy. One he never got out of. And had no interest in changing. My pop psychology anyway but they don't change unless they take up therapy to address it. So sorry, know it's hard with baby. But there's a chance he'll do it with his children too, or drive you to the point of insanity.

Thank you! For your kind reply and sticking up for me!

We met about 5 years ago through work. I mean there were other issues with their marriage too apparently. Disagreements on parenting, plentiful rows etc. I don't feel I should give too much detail because I wasn't there if that makes sense.

My senses don't point to dodgey business with her. He'd have lots of opportunities if he wanted to do that as he often collects DDs from her house etc. But why would he lie if it was all above board? 😫

Not sure where you see aggression. I am just responding to the post with an opinion.
You may not like it, but such is the nature of a web forum - there are different people with differing opinions.

To me - you seem to be irrationally fixated on your partner’s ‘lies’. About one specific issue - his Ex.

And you appear to not be willing to self reflect and think about what makes you feel this way. Or wonder about your partner’s feelings on the matter and why he is terrified of being open about it.

He has other ways to deal with any 'terror' he feels at telling OP about meeting ex. Like adult communication and if he thinks lying is a substitute for finding compromises- he's the issue, not her. Surely grown ups realise that there is no excuse for lying unless you think your life is at risk.... and if he genuinely believes that, he shouldn't still be with OP. Anyway OP hasn't given any indication she's done abusive harpy he needs to hide from.

It's the reasoning that lying by omission isn't lying, its just not telling. It drives me crazy! He knew I wouldn't ask the specific question "Did you ex wife come out drinking on your boys night out?" so he thought he'd get away with it.

It sounds like some people are just born liars and can't help themselves. He couldn't give any explanation as to why he did it. I guess its just up to me to decide whether I want to live with a liar.

Spoiler alert - I don't! Haha.

I have a policy on not trusting men (well, people really) who seem to be overly fond of a secret. And I think I'd be wondering that about your dp. Even if it's completely innocent, he's keeping you out of the loop. Why is that? Not saying it's definitely bad news, but it would make me wary.

MMmomDD · Today 23:30

Not sure where you see aggression. I am just responding to the post with an opinion.
You may not like it, but such is the nature of a web forum - there are different people with differing opinions.

To me - you seem to be irrationally fixated on your partner’s ‘lies’. About one specific issue - his Ex.
And you appear to not be willing to self reflect and think about what makes you feel this way. Or wonder about your partner’s feelings on the matter and why he is terrified of being open about it.

OP has an 'irrational fixation' and he's 'terrified' - seriously? I think maybe you have a situation(s) going on where you've not been overly open or truthful in your own life or relationships and have been called out on it, and now have your own irrational fixation on anyone disliking people lying to them. I bet the thought terrifies you

I don't get why you're being quite so aggressive. This is the relationships board, not AIBU.

Well done for saying this, OP.