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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I know the answer. He won't change, will he?

66 replies

AnotherCountryMummy · 28/09/2022 21:25

DP has a history of lying about his ex wife. Over the past few years, I've uncovered multiple lies, or omissions of truth.

The latest being DP going for drinks with 'male friends' but inviting his ex wife along and not telling me. But also deleting messages so I don't find out.

So as not to drip feed, its not really a problem if she did attend these events. My main problem is the lying. Which I've made very clear when this has previously happened. But he seems to continue to do it.

He can't explain why. I don't think anything is going on. I suspect maybe he misses her socially. But he denies this.

I was home looking after the baby. He had multiple opportunities to tell me she attended. Such as the next day when we had a lovely conversation about the evening and I enquired who was there.

If I've made it plainly clear that I don't like being lied to and that it's not okay, but he continues to do it, he doesn't respect me, does he? He won't change? Should I end it? I feel like such a mug and so deeply hurt and disrespected.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 28/09/2022 23:46

MMmomDD · 28/09/2022 23:30

Not sure where you see aggression. I am just responding to the post with an opinion.
You may not like it, but such is the nature of a web forum - there are different people with differing opinions.

To me - you seem to be irrationally fixated on your partner’s ‘lies’. About one specific issue - his Ex.

And you appear to not be willing to self reflect and think about what makes you feel this way. Or wonder about your partner’s feelings on the matter and why he is terrified of being open about it.

Perhaps it's just your OTT wording. For example, I'm not sure how you've deduced that I'm irrationally fixated on his lies.

I'm bloody pissed off he's lied to me. No inverted commas needed, they were lies.

I am wondering why my partner feels this way. I asked him tonight. I calmly asked him if he missed his ex wife. I asked him for his reasoning. He didn't seem to have any.

I assure you, he's not terrified of being open. And he doesn't have to be secret to see her either. I invited her to our baby's christening and party, she comes in for coffee when she collects the children. It's not like I forbid him contact with her! I like the woman.

Maybe it only seems to be about one specific issue because he only tells lies about this one specific issue. But that's on him, not me! I'd rather he didn't lie about anything.

OP posts:
Threelittlelambs · 28/09/2022 23:48

He’ll be lying about other things. They lie because they think they can get away with lying. They’d rather run away from the truth and make it appear that it’s all one your head and you’re some how delusional!

They assume everyone just believes them.

They hate being caught out and when this starts arguments (his ex wife?) was the problem and not him. This relationship won’t end well either now or ten years time.

AutumnCrow · 28/09/2022 23:50

@AnotherCountryMummy please ignore the tricktracktrailers and maybe just chat to the posters who are being constructive. You only only only have so much energy in your tank - why divert it towards the undeserving?

Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 28/09/2022 23:52

AutumnCrow · 28/09/2022 23:50

@AnotherCountryMummy please ignore the tricktracktrailers and maybe just chat to the posters who are being constructive. You only only only have so much energy in your tank - why divert it towards the undeserving?

Thank you, you are so right and I needed to hear that 🙂

OP posts:
AutumnCrow · 28/09/2022 23:54

AnotherCountryMummy · 28/09/2022 23:52

Thank you, you are so right and I needed to hear that 🙂

Show quote history

And I don't know why I managed to triple type 'only' there!

Musti · 29/09/2022 02:15

I think you need to speak to him and tell him you have no problem with him being mates with his ex wife (because that’s what it sounds like to me) but not to lie about her.

However, it isn’t on that he invites her and not you on a night out.

Fraaahnces · 29/09/2022 04:28

Sounds like in his heart and mind he’s still married to her, I’m sorry.

Moonshine5 · 29/09/2022 05:04

OP by this stage the why is almost irrelevant. Point is he is still doing it and of course it is not acceptable. Avoid the gaslighting. Accept the obvious you deserve better. Shared parental leave means this is ongoing until children are 18, are you prepared to do this "dance" with your partner until then? It's your life, your choice.

Moonshine5 · 29/09/2022 05:06

And in answer to your question, no he won't change.

Cakeycrumbz · 29/09/2022 05:22

I dumped my ex in april after discovering he was laid on bed texting his ex the night before that he was laying in bed crying over some song from their relationship. Told her to listen to it.

I had been paying for his food, supporting him and trying to be enough for 18 months. But I never could get in the exes place. She was on his mind constantly even though they'd split 3 years before. There were literally monthly debates about her. He denied it. Told me every reason he didn't like her like that. He claimed that only kept in touch as he felt it was the mature thing to do after 9 years together.

The truth is he has an obsession with women. He lost his ex because he couldn't stop messaging other women and he did cheat in the end. She never took him back. He's very narcissistic in general and he plays victim like a professional. So even after they ended he moved out and put her photos up on his flat wall. She was never worthy of him when they were together but when he lost her he attempted suicide 18 months later. He literally forced her to stay in his life and now she is stuck obsessing over him 4 years almost later. They don't want to be together (I presume he would go back there if she would) and they take it I'm turns to get jealous, emotional and possessive over the other. He definitely hid me the best he could but I think he uses me to part wind her up. But 6 months after they still are not together.

It won't ever stop no. The ex means something to him and he's obviously not dealt with it.

mathanxiety · 29/09/2022 05:27

Who told you it was a sexless marriage?

Cakeycrumbz · 29/09/2022 05:28

Can I just add my ex always said

"Sex with my ex was crap"

He had a bad back and our sex life waw terrible. He couldn't give me sex and fell asleep at 8pm like an old man. I was 15 years younger.

Those sorts of statements usually mean that their is not only a lack of respect but often some sort of naughty behaviour and they want you to believe they are the victims!

Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 29/09/2022 05:34

Fraaahnces · 29/09/2022 04:28

Sounds like in his heart and mind he’s still married to her, I’m sorry.

I feel like you've hit the nail on the head.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 29/09/2022 05:36

Moonshine5 · 29/09/2022 05:04

OP by this stage the why is almost irrelevant. Point is he is still doing it and of course it is not acceptable. Avoid the gaslighting. Accept the obvious you deserve better. Shared parental leave means this is ongoing until children are 18, are you prepared to do this "dance" with your partner until then? It's your life, your choice.

Nope I'm not prepared to do this for a minute longer. I don't want to waste my life on him. My heart breaks for our baby though.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 29/09/2022 05:40

Cakeycrumbz · 29/09/2022 05:22

I dumped my ex in april after discovering he was laid on bed texting his ex the night before that he was laying in bed crying over some song from their relationship. Told her to listen to it.

I had been paying for his food, supporting him and trying to be enough for 18 months. But I never could get in the exes place. She was on his mind constantly even though they'd split 3 years before. There were literally monthly debates about her. He denied it. Told me every reason he didn't like her like that. He claimed that only kept in touch as he felt it was the mature thing to do after 9 years together.

The truth is he has an obsession with women. He lost his ex because he couldn't stop messaging other women and he did cheat in the end. She never took him back. He's very narcissistic in general and he plays victim like a professional. So even after they ended he moved out and put her photos up on his flat wall. She was never worthy of him when they were together but when he lost her he attempted suicide 18 months later. He literally forced her to stay in his life and now she is stuck obsessing over him 4 years almost later. They don't want to be together (I presume he would go back there if she would) and they take it I'm turns to get jealous, emotional and possessive over the other. He definitely hid me the best he could but I think he uses me to part wind her up. But 6 months after they still are not together.

It won't ever stop no. The ex means something to him and he's obviously not dealt with it.

Ouch, that sounds awful, I'm sorry.

I think the theme of these replies is that the ex still means something to him and now I'm realising I think this is true. Not just because of the lies but other small things too.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 29/09/2022 05:41

mathanxiety · 29/09/2022 05:27

Who told you it was a sexless marriage?

Him. Although she did pretty much confirm this in a conversation once.

Probably another lie.

OP posts:
Catlover1970 · 29/09/2022 06:07

MMmomDD · 28/09/2022 23:30

Not sure where you see aggression. I am just responding to the post with an opinion.
You may not like it, but such is the nature of a web forum - there are different people with differing opinions.

To me - you seem to be irrationally fixated on your partner’s ‘lies’. About one specific issue - his Ex.

And you appear to not be willing to self reflect and think about what makes you feel this way. Or wonder about your partner’s feelings on the matter and why he is terrified of being open about it.

How is she irrationally fixated on his lies? She is upset by them and wants advice. Any normal person is upset with their partner continually lying to them surely????? Doesn’t everyone have the right to honesty in a relationship?

Arucanafeather · 29/09/2022 06:21

I’m not sure change isn’t possible here.based on my experience, My DH lied as a defense mechanism when I met him. Like the pp early mention he was taught to lie rather than to be honest by difficult childhood that superficially looked an amazing one but was emotionally abusive underneath. That clashed with my obsession for honesty that was a result of my childhood. “I just can’t bear you choosing to lie when you know what I value most is honesty” was something I said often in the early years of our relationship. Any attempt to talk about the lying would cause him to double down and that would send me down a similar path to the one I sense you’re on from what you say. I often used fo think to myself how come I didn’t leave years ago and ended up with a habitual liar. But the truth is we loved each other and our childhood trauma responses clashed even though these hidden issues were what brought us together in the first place. My DH is an amazing man who loves me dearly who had been taught that lying was safer than the truth. I feel there is nothing safer than the truth. I had a childhood that left me fearful of the truth being hidden from me. This did escalate when we first had kids. Once we spotted the childhood damage as the actual issue we got external help - my DH got himself sorted in about 4.sessions and I’m still struggling with PTSD from my childhood years later. But we’ve stopped repeating the trauma pattern in our marriage and he’s learnt that it is safe to be honest with me. Sometimes in the middle of a blazing row (we rarely have those now) he will instinctively lie but he can always correct himself rapidly afterwards. It’s weird for me to understand as I would never act that way but now I know it comes from damage I don’t feel personally attacked when he does it. I know it’s happening because I get an instinctive tense icky feeling and I say, let’s talk about this later when we’ve had a bit of time and often we don’t even need to have the chat later . And I don’t attack him for lying unnecessarily and thank him for the truth. He hated the fact he lied even more than I did we both realised as some point. I still sometimes rage about it and rail st him for behaviour he hasn’t actually done for years and he realises that that’s the damage his behaviour added to and reassures me that he sees now the impact on me and he’s learning to not hurt me that way as quickly as he can.

I totally did everything @MMmomDD has described looking back with hindsight. And it did contribute to the issue as he was to taught to lie when he felt unsafe and every time I caught him in an lie and fixed on how could he lie to me he felt more unsafe. It got to the point I was checking if he’d cleaned his teeth and he would say yes whether he had or not!

there is a difference between someone lying because they don’t care enough to bother being honest and someone who has learnt lying keeps you safe. I suspect pp are right and most don’t change whatever the reason they have for lying but my DH has most definitely changed and I’ve also changed and realised my damage actually contributed even though I was never the one who lied.

Good luck with it all.

Cakeycrumbz · 29/09/2022 06:58

I didn't want to face it or accept it. But the ex shouldn't be on the scene still. Boundaries have not been placed and you are being affected by it. The kids are a who different issue. That's good that they can get along. But spending time with her behind your back is showing he has some ties there still. I would have an honest talk with him but you shouldn't settle for less than what you deserve. It will become very toxic.

Ladybyrd · 29/09/2022 07:30

He sounds like a real shit, to be blunt.

Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 29/09/2022 07:32

Ladybyrd · 29/09/2022 07:30

He sounds like a real shit, to be blunt.

This made me laugh. Thanks 🙂

OP posts:
Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 29/09/2022 07:34

Cakeycrumbz · 29/09/2022 06:58

I didn't want to face it or accept it. But the ex shouldn't be on the scene still. Boundaries have not been placed and you are being affected by it. The kids are a who different issue. That's good that they can get along. But spending time with her behind your back is showing he has some ties there still. I would have an honest talk with him but you shouldn't settle for less than what you deserve. It will become very toxic.

This is exactly what I've woken up thinking. There are clearly still ties. And if he's not willing to break them then I'm not willing to invest my time and effort in him.

OP posts:
Original poster
AnotherCountryMummy · 29/09/2022 07:37

Arucanafeather · 29/09/2022 06:21

I’m not sure change isn’t possible here.based on my experience, My DH lied as a defense mechanism when I met him. Like the pp early mention he was taught to lie rather than to be honest by difficult childhood that superficially looked an amazing one but was emotionally abusive underneath. That clashed with my obsession for honesty that was a result of my childhood. “I just can’t bear you choosing to lie when you know what I value most is honesty” was something I said often in the early years of our relationship. Any attempt to talk about the lying would cause him to double down and that would send me down a similar path to the one I sense you’re on from what you say. I often used fo think to myself how come I didn’t leave years ago and ended up with a habitual liar. But the truth is we loved each other and our childhood trauma responses clashed even though these hidden issues were what brought us together in the first place. My DH is an amazing man who loves me dearly who had been taught that lying was safer than the truth. I feel there is nothing safer than the truth. I had a childhood that left me fearful of the truth being hidden from me. This did escalate when we first had kids. Once we spotted the childhood damage as the actual issue we got external help - my DH got himself sorted in about 4.sessions and I’m still struggling with PTSD from my childhood years later. But we’ve stopped repeating the trauma pattern in our marriage and he’s learnt that it is safe to be honest with me. Sometimes in the middle of a blazing row (we rarely have those now) he will instinctively lie but he can always correct himself rapidly afterwards. It’s weird for me to understand as I would never act that way but now I know it comes from damage I don’t feel personally attacked when he does it. I know it’s happening because I get an instinctive tense icky feeling and I say, let’s talk about this later when we’ve had a bit of time and often we don’t even need to have the chat later . And I don’t attack him for lying unnecessarily and thank him for the truth. He hated the fact he lied even more than I did we both realised as some point. I still sometimes rage about it and rail st him for behaviour he hasn’t actually done for years and he realises that that’s the damage his behaviour added to and reassures me that he sees now the impact on me and he’s learning to not hurt me that way as quickly as he can.

I totally did everything @MMmomDD has described looking back with hindsight. And it did contribute to the issue as he was to taught to lie when he felt unsafe and every time I caught him in an lie and fixed on how could he lie to me he felt more unsafe. It got to the point I was checking if he’d cleaned his teeth and he would say yes whether he had or not!

there is a difference between someone lying because they don’t care enough to bother being honest and someone who has learnt lying keeps you safe. I suspect pp are right and most don’t change whatever the reason they have for lying but my DH has most definitely changed and I’ve also changed and realised my damage actually contributed even though I was never the one who lied.

Good luck with it all.

Thank you so much, this is a really interesting response and it's really good to hear from someone who has managed to work through similar.

May I ask whether you had couples therapy or he had individual therapy?

OP posts:
Fireflygal · 29/09/2022 07:52

Sounds like in his heart and mind he’s still married to her, I’m sorry

This was my thought as well. It could that he has "grass is greener" syndrome or he is trying to reestablish a family unit with her. Does she have a partner?

I suspect he does have a motive but he isn't prepared to share his true intentions with you. It is disrespectful to you and suggests he isn't capable of loving one person. Counselling will only work if he is prepared to be open about his true feelings and motivations. I think that's highly unlikely.

silentpool · 29/09/2022 08:04

My ex-h was a liar. Big lies, small lies, omissions of truth.

It's a character flaw - showing that they are comfortable being secretive. It also means that they would rather lie than face up to conflict or difficult situations. Won't get better, I'm afraid.