f*ck - all my efforts in the last year have been for nothing, think this time DH and I really are going to split........

[FAQ]

had a few threads last day or two about DH and meals.....and last night about writing a note for him....well I didn't write the note - but

(I've copied and pasted from last nights thread as I really need some support right now, my best RL friend is away in Oxford today and I've already spent time on the phone to my parents and am now on my own)

I didn't write the note - decided to wait until this morning to talk about it and sort it properly - and oh yes it's sorted.

I'm currently in the middle of arranging to take the DS's to stay with my brother for a week or so in Edinburgh - I refuse to do things "his way" (in his words "My way") any longer - I've made a f*cking huge effort to sort things out in the last year (we nearly split up this time last year - but after a relate session things seemed to be getting better - and by the end of last year they seemed great - I had my temper under control, we were talking (and more) well. But apparently it would appear I've been wasting my time.

I've been told again this morning "his way or not at all"

After him telling me how "easy" it is to look after 3 DS's (7,4 and 8 months) on my own 5 days a week, and do all the housework, cooking, school run etc etc and my church commitments I threatened to go and stay with my parents for the week and leave him to sort it out and see how "easy" it was.

He told me to go then, but I don't trust him. I have a feeling that if I leave the kids with him for a week, not only will I be miserable as hell, but I fear he may either not let me back in the house on my return, or if when we split up use my week away against me and accuse me of abandonment. I can't take that risk - but I need to get away for a week or so to clear my head.

Called my parents (while he was still there in the room) but they can't put us all up, and understandibly it would be too much for my mum to cope with. However, she called my brother in Edinburgh, who then called me back and he's said we're welcome to stay with him for a bit.

I'm sure once I tell DH my plans he'll accuse me of "running off" with the kids - but I have every intention of coming back again after a week or so - I have church commitments, plus DS1's schooling to think about - don't want to start mucking around with that right now.

However, if it does come to splitting up, I'm afraid (unlike last year where I decided that I would stay in the same town) that I won't be staying round here. I want to make it work - but I can't make it work under "his" terms.

I've put so much time, effort and energy in the last 12 months (while being pg and having a young baby to contend with) towards trying to restore our relationship, but from our "dicussion" this morning it's entirely evident that not only has he been putting no effort in whatsoever, he also doesn't see the need to.

He's such a coward that when I asked him (after he'd asked me what I was going to do re going away) what he wanted me to do he said "I want the boys here with me", I asked where I fitted into that equation and he refused to say. Told me that it was "up to me" - I know it's up to me whether I stay or go - but he could at least have the balls to say whether he wants me here or not.

I just want to cry (well I have already) but YKWIM I honestly thought our relationship was improving - still not completely where it should have been (through both our faults) but felt like it was on the up and up.

He's tried to say that the "expensive crap" (well he didn't say that) mince was the issue here - but it runs a LOT deeper than that and I'm not sure I can put up with it any longer.

what was the deal with dinner last night? as i cant quite figure it all out.

warthog - he tries to tell me how to "deal" with DS1 (going through the sarcastic sevens right now) - but only has to deal with him for a short time at the weekends.

He thinks I'm happy "living in mess" - so likes the kitchen to be all nice and tidy/dishes washed etc by the time he gets in from work - sometimes I just prefer to stack them up and do them the following morning - FGS it might not be "tidy" but they're not going to kill anyone if I'm too tired to do them in the evening.

Oh I don't know - just little things that I've not done "soon enough", or do "at the wrong time".

It's driving me insane now - I've had PND in the past (twice - once undiagnosed and unadmitted by me, and 2nd time after DS2 which I did get sorted) - but I keep feeling like I'm about to start on the slippery slope again - and I don't want to - and don't think I have to

i didn;t mean by my last post you are the one responsible, it sounds like you have more than taken on board the issues there are, but he hasn;t

like you say, the world won't stop if the dishes are not done

FAQ I so understand what you are going through. My dh can be like this although he is much better now. We went through a terrible phase where everything I did he had an issue with. He was a complete control freak and I wasn't allowed to buy anything for the house. If I ran out of any groceries, he would tell me that I should be organised enough to ensure there was enough food in the house etc etc. We went to Relate for quite a while and this did help and now he is much more understanding. It's interesting that you talk about your anger. What's happened here is that I have a big anger problem which I didn't used to have. It's like all the shit that I took from him over the years has come out in anger and I have a hard time controlling it. It's almost like post traumatic stress stuff in that when I see that look on his face or hear a certain tone of voice which tells me he is upset with me, I react by going off on one - more than I should and out of proportion to what's going on. Inside, I'm really scared about where it's going to go.

He shouldn't get on at you about a couple of meals that don't "suit" him. That is bad behaviour on his part - you have 3 children ffs. The truth is he couldn't cope like you do but they never get the chance to find out do they?

Why don't you try Relate again but for more than one session. You need quite a few to get to the bottom of what the issues really are. It sounds like there are some going on underneath this domestic stuff.

I really feel for you and am sending you a big hug. It's only 8 months ago when I was a in a very similar position to you but things are much better now and perhaps they can be for you aswell.

Carmenere - that's the thing - he hasn't always been like this. He used to be so easy going, and just so, well different -

I have the problem of sometimes being too "free" with my emotions - but he just bottles them up.

faq I haven't posted on your threads before, but have seen them. fwiw, I think that you taking the blame for everything (and I'm not saying you aren't partly responsible) is also a tactic of someone who is extremely skilled at controlling things - to such an extent that you see yourself as responsble. I nearly posted this on the bed thread but didn't want to interfere.

Hope your week away helps you and your dh.

I have to go and give DS2 his lunch (terrible parenting hey - I'm upstairs on the computer he keeps hollering up the stairs "is it lunch time yet" but will be back shortly.

It sounds like he feels that due to this relate session and your agreement he has been given a mandate to be selfish and overbearing

FAQ - we are the same person! I am also too 'free' with my emotions and I know this is true as I have great trouble in controlling them. By the same token my dh is very in control and measured and has a clear idea of what is right and wrong in his mind at least. His mother is the same. She is a Stepford Wife who never ran out of bread at home and who never showed an emotion. Now dh has me - a full on, emotional woman! I also had PND twice and still suffer from depression now on and off. It's tough isn't it. I really think you can meet somewhere in the middle though - that is if you want to of course.

FAQ - I think you want the relationship to work, which is why you have been working on it/posting here etc

so i don't think you should despair just yet.

I think having a large young family is difficult for BOTH of you and tiredness/stress/boredom will create problems for BOTH of you - at the mo you are unhappy and can list all the things he can do better - and he is doing the same. You both want the other to make life better/easier so you are giving each other a really hard time. - I dont think its about washing up etc - I think it is tiredness and being fed up about both of you feeling taken for granted

If anything, I think time just the two of you doing fun things would help - get babysitters/more childcare etc etc - buy a dishwasher - come up with some really PRACTICAL things that will help reduce tiredness - none of this is cheap, but it is hell of a lot cheaper than separate flats and divorce bills

go and have a week away, you need some support and a bit of distance to get perspective.

I wonder about his upbringing? Is he referring to his childhood to inform him of how to deal with a wife and family? Are his family very conservative?

I only ask because I nearly married a lovely bloke who was sweetness and light until we moved in together and he suddenly decided that I was supposed to cook, clean and pick up after him because that was how he was brought up. His sisters Saturday job when they were kids was cleaning his bedroom. I had to leave because I knew I could never actually win with this attitude.

newgirl - a new dishwasher is on the cards - ours broke before Christmas - but as (at the moment) I have no job to return to on Monday - having handed in my resignation at the start of the month, we're hanging onto the "dishwasher" money to use to buy groceries during March should I not have found one by the end of February.

His hours make it virtually impossible to go out - only days we have are Saturday (and alternate Sundays - as I have evening services every fornight). He doesn't get home until close to 10pm - so can't go out on a weekday.

I do want the relationship to work. and I'm sure it could, if we could meet in the middle somewhere - but I can't see him compromising on anything right now, or any time in the foreseeable future.

Carmenere - god his family - where to start - his dad has been married (and divorced) 3 times, 2 children from each marriage - DH being the eldest of the second marriage. His parents split up when he was still really young, and his mum was pg with his younger brother. Consequently hardly saw his mother/brother until he was in his teens.

Then when he was in his early twenties (just before we met) his mum was really ill, he looked after her (cooking, cleaning, etc etc) while she was still able to work, and then when she died of pneumonia looked after his younger brother (the tearaway of the family) after he had a horrible car crash - again doing all the "domestic" stuff. So he thinks because he did that easily then looking after a house and 3 young children should be easy.

Now trying to figure out when the best time to have a week away will be!!

Half term not until near the end of February and not sure I can wait that long - however as DS1 is only in Yr2 I'm prepared to take him out of school for a week (thankfully I indirectly know the headteacher at the school through his mother so I don't think it would be a huge issue. Especially given that a good friend of mine is also a teaching assistant at the school and would be able to help explain things to him. But then I have church stuff to consider. If I'm away on a Sunday I need someone to cover for me for the services, plus we have our after school service on the 13th of February - I'm heavily involved in that and am loathe to leave them in the lurch. Plus there's the Ash Wednesday service on teh 7th of February.

I know that I should just say "sod it" and go - but they have been SO good to me at church and so supportive (plus I LOVE what I do there) that I hate to just leave them in the lurch.

In theory I could go next week - but then I don't get my money in until monday/tuesday........and have to figure out how to get there! What's the best way to get 3 children, 3 car seats (as I'll have to get a taxi to DB's flat and as I have a few people that I may like to visit while I'm up there other taxi's), one pushchair and suitcase from here to there???

I am not surprised you are angry when he is so controlling.

He sounds similar to my exH who is still trying to control me now. eg on Tuesday he picked up DCs from childminder (as agreed in our contact agreement) and said 'it's OK if you want to go out for a drink tonight'. Everything is to his agenda and he wanted everything done his way.

Mine used to comment on state of house etc Was a constant battle.

He was always mostly cold and unemotional whilst I was the emotional banshee. it's as if I took on the emotions for both of us.

I tried everything to save the marriage whilst he did nothing. He is now working his 'magic' on someone else. .

I witnessed him manipulate the DCs and found that very hard.

Re the parenting thing in the book by Lundy Bancroft which I eventually read it says that the parenting style of abusive/controlling men is stand on the sidelines, let you do all the work and then jump in with heavy criticism - as you say he does with your 7 year old.

I am sorry but these type of men f* with your mind.

I'm for you going to Edinburgh with the DS's

Hope this helps.

He told me it was my "job" to cook, clean, look after the children etc etc because he's the one that goes out to work.

So, his salary is the equivalent of the total salaries for a housekeeper (or separate cleaner and cook)and childcare for 3 children (£650 per month EACH round here) plus the £600 you bring in by being there is it?
As you are surviving on 200 for groceries, I'd suggest not.

As a SAHM, it is your 'job' to raise the children, surely? All other aspects of running the household should be shared.

If he doesn't get in until 10pm, surely he starts later? Does he genuinely work 14 hours per day?

I know this isn't really helping the situation you're in, but it does make my blood boil! Even if it were your job in its entireity (sp?) YOU don't go to his workplace and tell HIM how to do HIS job, do you?

If he doesn't like the way you do stuff- too bad He can do it himself, or adapt to your methods/standards.

citylover - it's odd with the kids - he loves them to bits and when he's home at the weekend plays with them loads, takes them out if he needs to go to homebase, enforces discipline etc etc. Gets up in the night with DS3 (and DS2 last night too!).

Yes - go to Edinburgh! I am there and will take you for a coffee! (or a glass of wine!)

PS The drink thing didn't sound that controlling but it's as if he was saying - it's OK for you to go out for a drink because I say you can. Rather than me deciding.

Re the car seats can you get a cheap booster for your oldest son there plus borrow another car seat there for middle DS.

Take baby seat.

Are you flying or training it. Won't be easy. I flew though from London to Glasgow once with two did just about manage it.

Good luck

EachPeach - actually I've got the £250 budget for groceries and stuff down to a tee now (and would do it even better if he wasn't wanting a Waitrose, meat filled fiesta on a Morrisons budget.........)

I reckon I could actually do the shopping for just under £200 (including £75 for nappies and baby milk) if I wanted to - he might try and knock me down but I know for a fact that he couldn't do the shopping on the budget I do

oooo are you in Edinburgh Karen

Actually aside from the reason why I'm going - I'm really looking forward to a week up there. I went to school in Edinburgh for 5yrs (last 5 years at school) and LOVED it. Went and visited my brother up there in August 2000 - but haven't been up since. Fabulous city.

city - DS1 and 2 both have normal booster seats (not high back) - it was the only "legal" (but sadly not the safest) way we could get all 3 in the back of our Ford Fiesta (sorry his Ford Fiesta - as he pointed out this morning after he criticised my budgeting and I pointed out that he's 2 months in arrears with the payments for it.........doesn't affect us as a family you see.......).

I may bus it - am sure I could get a friend to drop me at Milton Keynes Coachway - it's a long trip - but direct, and it's not too expensive £79 economy return for the 4 of us (baby free). And I reckon a taxi from the bus station (god I haven't been there for a long time - used to bus home all the time) will be cheaper than from the airport...

Not sure I could handle the train - it's either ridiculously expensive - with just one change, or about 3/4 changes the cheaper way.....

Wow - which school did you go to? What part of Edinburgh does your brother live in??

It is a great place....not that I am biased at all

I think it would do you good to get away for a week....time to relax and have some fun

I went to St. Mary's - I'm not really posh - I'm just a working class girl honest

Used to frequent (don't laugh) The Jolly Judge just off the top of the Royal Mile - and other such unsavoury places .

Brother lives in a grotty lovely high rise flat in Gilmerton (I think it is.......somewhere round there I think - have to double check - we don't often write letters so shall have to dig it out before I leave).

actually it's Moredunvale (think that's how you spell it) not very glamorous - but FABULOUS view from his flat - right across the city - he doesn't need to join the masses when the fireworks are on at the Castle - he can see them from his living room window

I know Gilmerton quite well. A lot of my friends from school lived there! Yes, all the unsavoury places...I know them well too!!

Anyhow - must go = got to take DS2 to toddler group (which I play the piano for LOL), and then must go to Morrisons after we've picked DS1 up from school later...........should have gone this morning but all hell broke loose instead.

I shall (without a shadow of a doubt) be back later.