A new revelation....

[VJasper86]

So I've posted quite a few times and I'm sure I can link the posts if needed.

Long story short (well a bit less long)

• 2007 dh overt flirting with a friend, people encouraging him to go for it, me finding out, him still ditching me to go to the party telling me I should stay home (I was meant to be going but he suddenly asked me not to which led to the reveal of the girl)

• 2015 slept in bed with another woman. Pants were still on but I think thing there was boob and clit action to some extent, yet to get the full truth. There were messages after talking about if they weren't married, hope dh wasn't too handsy etc (how I found out). Made me feel a fool, but no detail of what happened. It has taken until recently for him to admit how far it went, but he still claims he doesn't really remember.

He never really repented his actions/made up for them, he avoided it, I avoided it, I wasn't strong enough to really deal with it and he was happy to bury his head in the sand.

He then has had some long periods of lazy husband/parenting/imbalance in our marriage/pnd for me/unemployment for him etc that led to me being on more meds and personal therapy has brought this to a head.

We are now in couples therapy, making progress, not got to the unfaithful bits yet, more how to better communicate, parent, work as a team, remember how we used to feel about each other at the start etc.

So, new issue. Speaking to a friend this week who we both used to work with. She knows we are having issues, but didn't know the big incidents. In our chat it came up, and I am open about what happened now, as I shouldn't feel ashamed and need to make use of support.

She then brings up a work event where dh tried to kiss her. This will have been 2017/18.

She says she told me at the time, which could be true as there was a lot of alcohol flowing. She mentioned that another colleague who I got along well with made a comment to her having seen the incident saying she was a bad friend and it clearly got to her.

Now I don't know in what manner this all happened, was it an attempted kiss on the cheek but she moved, was he proper going in for something.
She was and still is in a LTR so not "available"
Did my other friend overreact to what he saw, like I said, lots of booze, free bar, did he only catch part of it.

Obviously I need to bring this up, but when. Do I say now, do I wait until our next therapy session and lead with it, as that will probably then lead to a session on him being unfaithful.
It would blindside him, he will definitely say he has no recollection of it.

I know LTB will be likely and I do get it, totally, and I place a lot of value in that opinion too.I f I was on the outside I'd be saying it too.
I still don't know at the moment if we will stay together. I am more on the separate side, but personal anxiety/self worth issues mean I need to try everything to save it. Also, there are moments he is lovely and I just can't do it to him.
We have kids, a mortgage and with cost of living etc it's a big decision so I intend to give it the consideration it deserves.

But after people's thoughts on when best to address this new revelation to get the most beneficial response.

Jesus, just leave him, he has no respect for you, trying it on with your friends.

He slept with a girl, they fucked, let's not beat around the bush here.

He's tried to kiss people, took a girl to a party.

Save your money for a divorce lawyer

I think these issues need to be front and centre at counselling. There is absolutely no point talking through working as a team and communicating when infidelity is an unspoken backdrop.

Once the trust has gone, the respect won't be far along after. Whether he has crossed a red line for you and this is unrecoverable is a personal decision-some people will say you need to split, others will tell you that you can work through it.

For me, the biggest issue with his behaviour as you are describing it would be the minimising/gaslighting/deception ie "cant remember". Its such a cop out. I could probably forgive the cheating itself if it was fully owned and there was a commitment to sort out the issues driving the behaviour.

You can't force him to change though. If someone shows you who they are, believe them.

It shouldn't just be you trying to fix this. It needs to come from him.

He would have been gone after the second incident! One is maybe forgivable if they start treating you right and prove their sorry, but time number 2.... nope, sorry, that would have been a 'see ya, and don't forget to GFY'.... Ive recently found out my ex cheated on me THROUGHOUT my relationship ... feel stupid I didn't know, but we didn't live together so I guess all those times when I was trusting he was saying goodnight at 8 (although I did use to question why so early but would get slammed for asking) - I'm glad we're no longer together! I forgave his first indiscretion because he assured me never again... and from what I knew, he didn't - but yeah ... GET RID!

@MrMrsJones appreciate the reply. I don't think they had sex, anything up to that is feesible, but the tone and comments in the messages imply it didn't end up there. It's hard to explain. I'm not saying that excuses him though. For me a kiss is cheating, drunk or otherwise, so how much further it went isn't really the issue. I know he disrespected me, our marriage, our child (who was 18m old at the time of the second incident)

Like I said, my own personal mental health issues mean that it isn't so easy as to just leave. I have a lot of respect and admiration for people who do. It takes bravery and self belief and I am just not "there" yet. Which is part of the therapy (both couples and individual) to make me stronger and value myself more, but it takes time as it's been decades of poor mental health (started pre dh by a mile)

@netflixandnaps thats for the reply. Totally get it and I'm glad you are no longer with your ex.

I more need to decide when best to bring it up so as to get "the most" out of the discussion.

I can guarantee your mental health will improve once you are rid of this man, who makes you feel worthless.

Make that your end goal

@MrMrsJones thanks. I am sure it probably will, but it's going to take for me to get to that point if that's where I end up.
I'm firstly trying to decide if it's better to bring it up now or to wait and do it during/at the start of one of our therapy sessions.

I think you need you own therapy to sort out why you put up with the original incident and then continued to stay with every revelation.

The priority should be getting you into a position where you can leave.

@Andromachehadabadday i expect that you are right. I really want to be able to go through what happened and I guess that's part of why I wanted relationship counselling.
Because I find making decisions difficult as soon as I feel bad for him and splitting up the family I question what the right choice is. I am quite indecisive and always put others first.
I am learning quite a bit about myself during the couples therapy as well as the individual stuff (which I paused while we do the couples stuff) as I have no doubt made mistakes in the relationship and I want to learn from those too.
It's defibeen a useful experience and I think I am hoping that by the end not only will I have some clarity on what actually happened and why, but also maybe he will see the whole picture as at present he would rather be together and unhappy than separate.

Do you think bringing it up in a session would be the best option as that would drive the discussion down that route instead of dealing with communicating better and being a team when parenting. It would force a discussion on the big issue that we haven't yet gone into.

I think if you drop it in to conversation. At therapy, there will be accusations of blind siding.

Honestly, though I very much doubt you will get any truth from him in therapy or outside.

Wow not content with shagging strangers, he thought he would have a shot at your friends as well. If you want to turn a blind eye, then do it, plenty of people do. But don't torture yourself pretending its not happening, or whatever farce this counselling is. Counselling is pointless without honesty, what you are doing is waste of money, and I'm sure you can find better uses for it at the moment.

Do you think bringing it up in a session would be the best option as that would drive the discussion down that route instead of dealing with communicating better and being a team when parenting. It would force a discussion on the big issue that we haven't yet gone into.

It isn't just the big issue, it is THE big issue. The elephant in the room.

To be honest, I do think it needs to come out sooner rather than later, otherwise how can any counsellor do their job when they have no idea why you feel the way you do?

@Surtsey yes I agree, it is the elephant in the room. The therapist is aware of it and I believe they discussed it in their initial session as dh struggles to communicate so he had a 1 on 1 first to check he could talk to her.
I wonder if she is trying to go through some easier bits first to enable him to settle in the hope that maybe there will be more honesty when it comes up. In my head it's the same reason as why they don't the the "sex" session first as everyone needs to feel comfortable with each other before the big questions come.
She knows it is the root of our marriage issues from my perspective and things all link/intertwine back to that.

Your mental health will never improve while you have this waste of space in your life.

You're spending an awful lot of time and energy on something that is never going to have a good outcome for you.
Knowing the details, the number of incidents (and there are clearly many, many more) is not going to give you the resolution you seem to want.

Put the focus on raising your self esteem and get on with your life.

He doesn’t struggle to communicate when other women are involved though does he? He’s good at getting his words out then.

He just doesn’t want to talk about and is waiting for you to shut up about it.

Thanks @Andromachehadabadday
I am not sure how I can drop it into conversation, but I see your point about blinds siding him in front of essentially a stranger.
I suppose it will need to be once the kids have gone to bed. I might just have to blurt it out and say that I think we need to discuss it at therapy.

@Fluffycloudland77 with communication it's more that he isn't able to discuss and work through issues. He will talk generally and will tell me he loves me, or cares etc. The things he has said to the other woman are things he wouldn't have a problem saying to me, it just he is unable to resolve conflict, work through our problems as he just becomes defensive and avoids it.

@blockpavingismynightmare and @jay55 you are probably very right. But for me I entered the marriage for the long haul, and I know he has broken vows, but that doesn't mean that I have to. And for me, I feel I should do what I can to save it/at least get to a point where we can communicate well enough that we could co-parent successfully.
I need to know I tried my best to make peace with whatever outcome.

OP He has broken the contract. He has shown you no respect, does not value or love you and you still think it is your job to prop up a relationship based on what exactly?

What do you want to discuss in this therapy? What do you want the outcome to be? For him to pinky promise it won’t happen again (it will) For him to beg forgiveness (he won’t). He clearly doesn’t give a shit about you - stop wasting you life energy on this waste of space whose probably laughing with his mates about it all

Look, you didn't get the truth several years ago and you're certainly not going to get it now but if I were you I would get as far as I could from the sexually incontinent man. Your boundaries are almost on the floor and your self-esteem must be there along with it. I'd dump him and not go out with anyone else until I had some counselling.

The harsh reality is that many cheaters want out. They don’t want to be forgiven.

@OnTheBrinkOfChange yes,my self esteem has been on the floor for a long time (probably pre dh, I'm not surprised he has been tempted in the past)

@blockpavingismynightmare propping it up based on my fear of failure, being alone, my inability to hurt someone else, I have quite extreme empathy levels so it's tricky.

@Chargingup he has very few friends and actually 3 out of the 5 of them are separated, so I actually think he hasn't told them at all as he is ashamed. I think that's why he doesn't want to talk, because of shame. And yes, he f'd up uo more than ince, but I do think you can be ashamed for each mistake. That doesn't mean you have to stay together though and I know that.

@Sausagelove thats an interesting idea, I feel a lot of cheaters don't want out though as surely they want the security and stability of a home life, but the thrill of cheating.

I think I might try and talk to him tomorrow eve so as to give him time before therapy.
And the relationship therapy is helping with my self confidence as it is useful to learn about how things I have done have impacted on things from an independent source.

People in healthy relationships don't have to constantly dissect and analyse the others behaviour, it must be exhausting. Surely you can see that you deserve better and he will never change?
You have two options imo - stay with a cheater, accept that he will never be faithful or file for divorce, find your inner strength again and start valuing yourself. Separating won't be easy but in ten years time you will look back and feel so relieved that you didn't waste any more of your life being made to feel miserable and worthless by this absolute arse-hole.

You didn’t split the family up, your cheating partner has. He’s doing it any chance he gets, in front of you and with your friend and in front of colleagues. He doesn’t give a shit about you.

absolutely leave him!!

I have to be honest here and say that it seems pointless having couples therapy when you are going to stay no matter how much he disrespects and cheats on you. He is a serial cheat, gaslighter and liar who has a reputation for those things. What does it take for you to walk away? Staying is going to be damaging your confidence and anxiety even further because you are being treated badly. Just walk away from all this drama.