A Man Looking For Advice

[AManLookingForAdvice]

Hello, I am a man and I am here looking for advice, I hope you lovely women can give me some insight.

I am single and recently I have started going on a few dates and have been going out more and I seem to not be having much success, or at least in the way I want success. So first the background, I am late 30s, I live alone, own my own flat in the South East and run my own business. I spent most of the last ten years building up my business and in many ways let my thirties pass me by, I was focused on work, got out of shape and I was not looking to date as I was head down in work. Then the same happened to me as everyone else, lockdown hit, life got a revaluated, I realised that I was missing out on life whilst focusing on work.

I decided change my life, to make things more interesting and to improve my health so took up running, I started lifting weights and got myself fit, I am probably the fittest I have ever been and for the first time in many years I feel really good about myself, according to people who I ask (and sometimes people who I don’t) I look good, although I will add I still don’t quite believe them, even though I know logically I look reasonably attractive. I went out with friends more, and when Covid had died down I started dating. I am centre left politically, but not political, I tend to keep up with current affairs so I know what is going on, as well as sport for the social aspect, but I am reasonably relaxed with all of that, happy to go with the flow in discussions. To finish it off 6ft 1in tall, all my own teeth, short hair. I tend to favour planning rather than total spontaneity, but I am not against short notice ideas, it would just be unlikely to be “Let’s go to France for the weekend” on a Friday morning, but no problem with booking it for the next weekend, or going for a night out in London a few hours later etc. I am sensible with money, I do not like to waste it, I see it as a utility rather than an end itself, which means I can afford to go to nicer places, but I am equally relaxed going and having a picnic in the park, or a walk and a coffee. I keep my home clean and tidy, it’s not a bachelor pad, but also not a family home either.
I am not an alpha male by any stretch, I am not interesting in competing with people, just doing what I feel is the best I can/need to (eg. I am not working 60+ hours again if I don’t need to), I earn enough to not need to worry about money and that perhaps does give me a relaxed attitude that takes away pressures.

So I have been on several dates, they seem to start off well, they seem to find me interesting, they seem to enjoy sex, or I can go on a night out and meet someone, a few times that has ended up in sex, again no complaints there as they have all wanted to repeat the experience. I am apparently good to talk to, although I will admit I am not the best listener as I know I look to fix a problem, rather than be someone who just sits and listens, but I am working on that. Most of the women seem to end up not wanting a relationship, but want to be friends, a friends with benefits situation, or they are very intense at the start, then fade off quickly, two have been very intense at the start, faded off, then expected to pick everything up a few months later. Wives of friends think I would make a great catch, my sister’s friends think I would make a great catch (already paired up, and would not do anything that close to home anyway).

So I guess I am looking for answers as to why I keep falling into either friends or friends with benefits situations, rather than a relationship? What could I do to improve myself, what might I need to change?

Fire away, I suspect some of you will probably be brutally honest, but I think I need that because everyone I know who I ask says they don’t know why, but that does not really seem to add up.

Think about how long it takes to click friendship wise, then you're taking it to another level for a relationship.

Relax, listen more, take genuine interest in the person you are with and it will happen.

Nothing that you've said looks like an obvious blunder. I think it's just very tough to find a life partner and it's going to take longer than you've given it.

Other than coming across as a bit intense/over-thinky in your post I say, carry on as you are. Just as you know in your mind/heart what you want (you do, don't you?), so do these women. All that's happening is neither of you are on the same page at the same time, that's all.

One day you’ll meet someone who you click with. That’s what the dating game is about. The trick is to try not getting too disheartened by it all as you figure out what you do and don't want and who is or isn't right for you. You're vetting them for suitability too don't forget!

What about all the ones you are friendzoning because the feeling isn’t there for you? No? Are you just pinning your hopes on somebody ANYbody liking you back romantically? It doesn't work like that. One day, you'll just click with someone (and them, you). Until then we're all just browsing.

Yes I agree with the previous poster; work on the listening rather than problem solving thing. Women sometimes, just sometimes, like to get things off their chests. No solution required. If they ask your advice then give it. Otherwise, keep schtum.

Zen-like quote of the day “a silent hug is worth a thousand spoken words”.

you’ve had some good advice already.

it is a numbers game. Hold off on sex until you know them better.

Also a lot of the things you have said in your opening post are fairly basic things ie job, look after yourself and your home. I don’t get much of a sense of your personality. I wonder if you are matching with women who tick boxes on paper but aren’t a good match for your personality.

Have you tried to meet women through social clubs etc??

I would start by not describing women as ''crazy'' or ''lovely ladies''...

I did not read your entire post either because it was way too long and I could not help thinking that nobody is that perfect...

I would actually avoid you simply because of the above.

Maybe it is because you have not been dating for a while, maybe you have one of these personalities that make it hard to relax but you do come across as a bit patronising and there are things in the way you commutate that to me look like red flags.

I would suggest rather than online dating you get involved in various actives where you can meet new people and start building a connection with them. and maybe ask your existing friends to set you up with women they think you would get on well with.

My advice don’t go out looking, go do things you like and you enjoy and you will find people there who do the same, friends or relationships, or by getting to k is a different social group it will open you up to other places etc.

however I’m of a view of let it happen not trying to find a partner

OP - what are the dates like? Do you have fun? Laugh? Or have coffee and describe your life goals etc.
because the latter sounds to me like a casual job interview and I wouldn’t be arsed.
Maybe try mixing up what you do on dates..?
And how have you felt about the women you’ve dated..?
Liked any of them?
Really fancied one?
Or just approached it like you’d date anyone who has sex with you provided they want to keep seeing you (because, not being nasty) that’s exactly what it sounds like.

I cannot be arsed to be offended by the “lovely ladies” opener and, tbh, spreadsheet woman does indeed sound a bit crazy!
I have a slightly different take on your post. Take this kindly op, but you sound a bit….desperate. You list all the things about you that a woman might want, but you don’t list a single thing that YOU want. You seem to be be willing to accept any woman in a long term relationship. You detail how lots of woman have cooled off/lost interest etc…..how many have YOU decided aren’t right? Because that’s totally normal, lots of first or second dates when you decide it’s not for you? Women can smell desperation a mile off and it’s not attractive. Sit down and have a think about what it is that YOU want in a long term partner or wife, and date accordingly. Don’t shag any woman who says yes and don’t second date anyone who doesn’t meet YOUR criteria…

Ok, if that is the way you see it then sorry. I referred to A woman as crazy, one specific woman, who to everyone who it has been mentioned to (including other women), described the woman in question as crazy.
The word ‘crazy’ to me is as bad as it gets as an insult whether someone is the upper end of acting Outside the perimeters of how people usually act or not. It’s just not on. I’d agree with people that you just haven’t met the right person or are trying to hard. I think you should just find some form of hobby and stop thinking about it!

Oh and calling people crazy really fucks me off.

I think Buildingthefuture has completely nailed it on this one. It also feels like you are approaching it as a kind of problem to be solved - I have all these attributes and therefore obviously I am going to click with someone on my own time, but it doesn't work like that. Maybe you should not actively seek dates right now but join a few groups, take your time, and see what develops more slowly.

Few thoughts..

Dating is sometimes a numbers game and blind luck. You might meet your life partner quickly, or it takes time, or it might never happen.

You just haven't met your match yet. Just be busy with life in the meantime and don't over think it.

A fucking SPREADSHEET on a first date? Are you serious?

That IS crazy. Weird too.

OP, i think you have just been unlucky. Keep going, it really is a numbers game. On paper you sound great x

Some have been drinks, or a coffee for first dates, some the first date has evolved into dinner or lunch after the coffee or drink, but that was not planned when the date was organised. For the second dates everything from dinner or drinks, to indoor crazy golf (her suggestion), paddle boarding (her suggestion), Go Ape (my suggestion, after she said she wanted to try it and I though it could be interesting), one third date was a skydive (she was an instructor and invited me), a pizza making course (90 minutes), cocktail making, plenty of "normal" type dates as well. I would hope that was mixed up enough to be interesting.

I hate talking about my life goals, in many ways because I do not really know what they are, I am not materialistic so there is not an easy tick box. Work is fine, it provides me with a comfortable living, but it does not inspire me. I do tend to find I am more drawn to people who get to do a job that they are passionate about though, so perhaps there is something in that.

Most have been really nice people, quite a few it was obvious that there was no click on either side and that is totally fine, on others there was a click for either me or her, but not both, on some the click seemed to be there for both. I would have said that nearly all were really likable people, three have been people I really fancied yes, properly a "wow, I cannot believe how hot I find her" situations.

Now don't get me wrong, sex is great (most of the time), but it gets a bit boring if there is not something more behind it.

You could consider joining something like Meet Up, where you will come into contact with a wide range of people and interests in an unpressured casual setting. Or perhaps join something like an amateur drama group where you will be able to forge friendships that could develop into relationships.

You sound quite intense and self absorbed, so perhaps try to be more relaxed.
This period should all be fun and exciting, but that seems to be missing for you, from what you've posted.

Try to inject enthusiasm & positivity into your social exchanges with women as they are attractive features, and some spontaneous gestures might help too.

The three verboten things women posters on Mn hate...and you did them.

I think you need to wait to the second or third date for sex.

You also need to chill TF out. You sound like a results guy. Relationships cannot be put on a graph or pie chart to be quantified. You also seem to think us women are impressed by how much money you earn and about what you look like when really, it's not as important as feeling safe and cared for, and respected. Having enough to live on is important, but your earning potential is way down the list. Listening is vital. Work on that.

There is probably something (quite a lot) in your post, I don't think I come across as desperate, but if you are getting that feeling then maybe I am!

I don't really know what a woman might want in me beyond being a decent human being, which I hope I am. There are plenty of men who are perfectly good prospective partners so I think that is harder to nail down and I certainly would not read off a list of my characteristics to a prospective partner.

What do I want, that is harder to nail down, I have never really had a type as such, but key is someone I feel comfortable around, who is interesting, intelligent, caring, who I find attractive and sexy. Someone who would like to have children (but not in the next six months).

I would probably say that about half did not progress beyond the first date and I would say that was about a third between me, the woman and mutual feeling. Beyond the second date probably around 50/50, however I have not been in a position where I wanted Friends with Benefits but nothing more, but some of the women have. That does not count the ones who did not make it that far from Tinder and Bumble.

How does one define one's criteria? I meant that as a genuine question, it has before felt more a situation where it felt as something that grew from "I find her interesting, amazing and attractive" to "I find her interesting, amazing and attractive, and I could see myself spending my life with her", but the latter is not something that I would know on a first, second or even fifth date.

How do you meet these women? Work? Friends of friends? Via your hobbies and OLD?

The spreadsheet was on her phone, with a timeline of moving in together, getting engaged, getting a joint bank account, getting married, getting pregnant within a maximum six month timescale. Forget a second date, I did not even have a second drink!

That is slightly why I worry, spreadsheet lady seemed great on paper, right up until the paper turned into a spreadsheet. I am wondering if I am ok on paper, but doing something very wrong in the real world!

Some via Tinder and Bumble, others on nights out, a few friends of friends. My hobbies are mostly going to live music, spending time with nieces and nephews, staying fit and healthy (I run most days), reading (non-fiction) and video games, so not likely to be scenarios where I would meet someone. Work is complicated, I am the owner of an SME so it is not going to be with one of my employees and the industry I work in isn't overly conducive to it being someone I meet at work.

A long term relationship which is actually going to last needs really solid foundations. There is so much to talk about. It's not a tick box exercise, it's finding someone who has so much more in common with you. You should be sitting up all night talking, about all sorts of things, but over a period of time, not just an intense couple of dates like an interview.

You need to know people's background, their family, childhood, upbringing, religious influences, political leanings, moral standards, prejudices, priorities, etc. absolutely loads of stuff. This is real intimacy that only comes over time where you can build trust. It's much more fluid than what you seem to think, it evolves very naturally and can't be rushed. You sound very intense and that will put women off. Especially if your listening skills are poor.

Well, that woman arriving to a date with a spreadsheet of her future did sound crazy. OP is entitled to call her that.

Since when has being called lovely an insult?

Some really good responses here already, op. You will meet someone in time so don't panic. I understand you feel you may have left it a little later than most, but so what? People are single and looking for a relationship at all ages.

Christ. I'm normally the first to have a pop at many of the men on here. But I think some of this is a bit harsh - even for me. The self absorbed bit I mean. I'm not necessarily getting that - it's a thread setting out your situation so you need to talk about yourself.

Although you do sound quite boring (for me).

I'd say. Wait for sex. Relax. Think about what you want not just what you're offering/selling. Apart from that all sounds not too bad. And I say that as someone who isn't that keen on most men.