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Original poster

I'm pregnant and unmarried - should I sign a deed of trust on our new house

103 replies

Bonnie2023 · 05/08/2022 13:50

Hello,

I'm in a bit of a pickle and wondered if anyone is able to offer any advice.

I bought a house with my boyfriend a few months ago. We have moved in and it's perfect. Given he put a fair whack down as a deposit, I signed a deed of trust. I think it's only fair that he gets that back if we break up and sell the house.

However, I have fallen pregnant. It wasn't the plan, I wanted to get married before we started to think about babies but sometimes, life happens. We are both really happy and feel really lucky. When I found out, the deed of trust was on my mind. He didn't offer to scrap it, even when I raised concerns

OP posts:
Fireflygal · 05/08/2022 14:22

Good that you are thinking about this.

Deed of trust doesn't necessarily need to be amended but you need equality of costs for the impact of pregnancy and mat leave.

It might help you to think of your financial security as steps.

Your partner is several steps ahead of you due to having a deposit. Generally as a man he will benefit from the gender pay gap so that puts him further ahead. In constrast pregnancy will delay your financial potential (as much as everyone says it shouldn't, it happens). Mat leave will cost you unless it's agreed he funds the shortfall. Post mat leave if you go part time you go backwards in earnings and statistics show men pull ahead (fathers seen as requiring higher income).

So after a few years the financial gap between you and your partner has widened significantly- often with no chance of catching up. If you stay together, get married that's fine but if you separate his standard of living will be much higher than yours.

Original poster
Bonnie2023 · 05/08/2022 14:23

And alarm bells would be ringing for me at the timing of this unplanned pregnancy. But alarm bells don't mean anything when you don't know the couple, do they, it just shows the way your mind jumps to conclusions on no evidence. - It was absolutely not planned. I wanted to be a little bit older and a bit further in my career. Also, I didn't know the deed of trust was going to come back invalid. I signed it happily (I actually suggested it when we first discussed buying) and didn't ask him to revoke it when we found out about the pregnancy. Now I'm just in a position where I can re evaluate the situation and want to make sure I'm doing the most sensible thing.

OP posts:
DaisyDooxox · 05/08/2022 14:24

@ArcticSkewer isn’t it? Sorry I got the age wrong ..

“If you and your ex both own your home and share children together who are under 18, most solicitors and courts will grant you permission to reside in the family home. They will assess your finances to ensure this is possible and this will often be in place until your offspring are 18 or out of full-time education.”

ComtesseDeSpair · 05/08/2022 14:24

If you break up he may decide he wants to make sure the baby has everything it needs by splitting care 50/50, not handing his money over to you so you can buy a bigger house of your own for it. What makes you assume otherwise? (And if you think he’s the kind of man who wouldn’t want to parent equally then I’d question why you’re having a baby with him in the first place.)

Original poster
Bonnie2023 · 05/08/2022 14:30

If you break up he may decide he wants to make sure the baby has everything it needs by splitting care 50/50, not handing his money over to you so you can buy a bigger house of your own for it. What makes you assume otherwise? (And if you think he’s the kind of man who wouldn’t want to parent equally then I’d question why you’re having a baby with him in the first place.) - No, I think he is. I wouldn't have been with him all these years and planned a future if he was a total div. He's lovely and we have a great relationship. As I said, just want to make sure I'm doing the best thing and I think it's important to get impartial opinions from others - so thanks again everyone.
Add message

OP posts:
Musti · 05/08/2022 14:31

Hi op. Sit down and discuss what you’re doing to do from now on. Childcare, housework etc.

If you’re not married then don’t give up your job or go part time and make sure he does his fair share of childcare and housework. If you’ve been the only one doing it or doing most of it, stop it now.

What I see now is many men having their cake and eating it. They don’t marry the mothers of their children. They don’t do housework or childcare. When split they get everything .

RightMessUp · 05/08/2022 14:36

Legally you should get proper legal advice and not ask on Mumsnet. There are some helpful and knowledgeable posters but also plenty who talk rubbish and unless you know which is which then you might end up listening to someone talking shite

CharlotteRose90 · 05/08/2022 14:38

If you want to marry him then ask him to marry you. It doesn’t always have to be the guy that asks. However while you’re unmarried he’s doing the right thing. He should save his deposit. I’d do exactly rhe right thing.

ComtesseDeSpair · 05/08/2022 14:40

RightMessUp · 05/08/2022 14:36

Legally you should get proper legal advice and not ask on Mumsnet. There are some helpful and knowledgeable posters but also plenty who talk rubbish and unless you know which is which then you might end up listening to someone talking shite

It’s not really a “legal advice” situation though. OP can get all the advice she wants but the reality is that a deed of trust has been signed, and the only way it can be dissolved (without being potentially overridden by marriage) is if her boyfriend agrees that it should be. Being pregnant or having a baby together doesn’t have any legal weight to override a financial contract.

OP, you need to have the discussion with your boyfriend, if you think you’re now owed more than your original contribution.

RightMessUp · 05/08/2022 14:40

Also, I think the amount of money and the source of the money is of some relevance from a non-legal point of view. If the money has come from his parents or grandparents for example then he may want to ensure the money stays with him. That doesn't mean he is a dick. It's understandable. I really get on well with my kids partners and I'm happy that they have benefitted from money that we have given our kids for deposits for houses but I prefer the money to be ringfenced.

ManAboutTown · 05/08/2022 14:41

@ComtesseDeSpair - I think most of this is correct but I think either party can dissolve the deed of trust

Runwalkskijump · 05/08/2022 14:43

DaisyDooxox · 05/08/2022 14:24

@ArcticSkewer isn’t it? Sorry I got the age wrong ..

“If you and your ex both own your home and share children together who are under 18, most solicitors and courts will grant you permission to reside in the family home. They will assess your finances to ensure this is possible and this will often be in place until your offspring are 18 or out of full-time education.”

That's also not true.

There are lots of cases where houses are sold or the person staying buys the other out.

It really isn't that straight forward.

TheOriginalClownfish · 05/08/2022 14:45

I wasn't married when we started our family, so I returned to work full time. And for the first few years childcare was a struggle but unless there was the protection of marriage, I wasn't becoming dependent on anyone - and even after marriage, I won't. I like having my own money, and I will only stop working if I win the lottery

It's normal for mum to become the default caregiver after maternity, so the best advice I can give you is to start how you mean to go on. Do not fall into the habit of being the only one who can function as a parent.

From the very beginning DH didn't have a clue about babies, he had literally never minded a baby or a child before so any "I don't know how to do that" was met with either "Here, I'll show you" or "dunno either, lets google it?" He was willing and wanted to be an equally hands on dad so I had that in my favour, some women have to tackle that too. So apart from me breastfeeding, he was able to do everything else to the point I went away overnight at 4m pp and didn't need to leave an exhaustive For Dummies list on the fridge, I could just express a stash of milk, kiss them both goodbye and fuck off to my mates wedding. And they managed perfectly. And if DH can learn from scratch, anyone can.

Because he was equally capable, when DS was sick or teething we took turns going out from work with him. Sometimes DH could work from home, sometimes he had a meeting so I needed to do it. The point was equally, we decided who was most available/able to reschedule. There is the assumption by nurseries and schools sometimes that mummy is the default, but they quickly catch on if dad is doing the school runs all the time.

RiaOverTheRainbow · 05/08/2022 14:45

Would he agree to a no fuss registry office marriage to get the legal bit taken care of? You can save for a big wedding in a few years if you like, and you don't even have to tell people you're married if he doesn't want to be the first of his mates to do it.

ComtesseDeSpair · 05/08/2022 14:46

ManAboutTown · 05/08/2022 14:41

@ComtesseDeSpair - I think most of this is correct but I think either party can dissolve the deed of trust

The OP can’t dissolve a legal contract she agreed to because she wants to benefit financially, no. That’s the whole point of the contract.

Original poster
Bonnie2023 · 05/08/2022 14:54

It’s not really a “legal advice” situation though. OP can get all the advice she wants but the reality is that a deed of trust has been signed, and the only way it can be dissolved (without being potentially overridden by marriage) is if her boyfriend agrees that it should be. Being pregnant or having a baby together doesn’t have any legal weight to override a financial contract.
OP, you need to have the discussion with your boyfriend, if you think you’re now owed more than your original contribution - Well technically it hast been signed, because the one we signed is invalid. So right now, there is no deed. This is not about dissolving something, it's about me actually signing a deed in the first place I just wanted to clarify that. I know being pregnant or having baby doesn't override a legal document. I'm just in a position where I can re evaluate and decide whether to sign it

OP posts:
RandomMess · 05/08/2022 14:54

Don't forget looking after your pensions contributions whilst on maternity leave and if you work part time.

Original poster
Bonnie2023 · 05/08/2022 14:55

I wasn't married when we started our family, so I returned to work full time. And for the first few years childcare was a struggle but unless there was the protection of marriage, I wasn't becoming dependent on anyone - and even after marriage, I won't. I like having my own money, and I will only stop working if I win the lottery
It's normal for mum to become the default caregiver after maternity, so the best advice I can give you is to start how you mean to go on. Do not fall into the habit of being the only one who can function as a parent.
From the very beginning DH didn't have a clue about babies, he had literally never minded a baby or a child before so any "I don't know how to do that" was met with either "Here, I'll show you" or "dunno either, lets google it?" He was willing and wanted to be an equally hands on dad so I had that in my favour, some women have to tackle that too. So apart from me breastfeeding, he was able to do everything else to the point I went away overnight at 4m pp and didn't need to leave an exhaustive For Dummies list on the fridge, I could just express a stash of milk, kiss them both goodbye and fuck off to my mates wedding. And they managed perfectly. And if DH can learn from scratch, anyone can.
Because he was equally capable, when DS was sick or teething we took turns going out from work with him. Sometimes DH could work from home, sometimes he had a meeting so I needed to do it. The point was equally, we decided who was most available/able to reschedule. There is the assumption by nurseries and schools sometimes that mummy is the default, but they quickly catch on if dad is doing the school runs all the time. - Thanks, all good advice. And you sound like my kind of woman

OP posts:
RandomMess · 05/08/2022 14:59

I have to say we always shared the parenting and housework etc. We were equals.

RightMessUp · 05/08/2022 15:02

TBH if you agreed to sign the deed of trust and are thinking of now refusing then I wonder if that might make him less inclined to want to get married.

I still think the amounts involved are of some relevance as is the source of the money.

Goldbar · 05/08/2022 15:02

The problem with having a child and not being married is that there is no way for a court to "compensate" you when it comes to splitting assets for any unpaid labour you have put into the relationship and any financial/career detriment you have suffered as a result of maternity leave or taking a career break to raise children. Marriage may be a blunt tool but at least where there are assets there is some power to redress the balance to account for these non-financial contributions.

The other benefit of marriage is allowing for children's needs to be taken into account in the financial settlement. Yes, you would be entitled to CM if you split up (unless you shared care 50/50) but that is calculated as a (fairly ungenerous) percentage of income and not on a needs basis and doesn't give any right to, e.g. a share of assets so the children can be adequately housed.

So in your situation I would be thinking about how to protect myself against this double whammy. First, by insisting that he pays all expenses while you are on maternity leave and chores/childcare out of working hours are split 50/50. Second, by taking a relatively short maternity leave and making sure all unpaid labour is split equally when you are back at work.

writergirl007 · 05/08/2022 15:03

If he won't get married before the baby is born, tell him it will have your surname. He might never marry you - do you want your child to have a different name to you? It will focus his mind maybe...

Ponderingwindow · 05/08/2022 15:03

you can’t proceed with a 50:50 financial arrangement once there is a baby in the mix. Your earning power is about to plummet. Even if you are the higher earner, you are still taking a loss having a baby.

that he doesn’t want you to have legal protections should be hugely concerning.

pregnancy and childbirth are risky. Babies also sometimes have more needs than planned. You can’t even guarantee that your financial losses are only going to be what you think they are with an ideal pregnancy and maternity leave. The marriage contract and the commingling of finances spreads that risk to both of you. Right now, it is all yours.

MimiSunshine · 05/08/2022 15:49

FYI on the baby surname. Baby will have your surname automatically at birth because it’s hospital tags and records will automatically follow on from yours.

it sounds like there are some discussions to be had around the house, household bill / mortgage contributions on may leave etc so I’d include the surname in with those conversations.

If he’s not in a rush or quite ready yet for marriage, which could be argued is ok to feel like that when it was a surprise pregnancy then he can’t be upset (or rather he can but tough luck) if baby doesn’t have his surname when you don’t either (assuming you would change yours after marriage).
once you are married you have the option to re register the birth and can change the surname at that point (if you wanted to). So tell him that’s when you’ll do it if he doesn’t want to get married in the next couple of months.

or you could agree to adding his name on the end so it’s Baby YourName HisName but I wouldn’t be registering as just Baby HisName and if he or anyone argues it’s traditional, remind them it’s only traditional if the mother is married to the father.

SideshowAuntSally · 05/08/2022 16:23

Why's the Deed of trust invalid now? You said you signed it. Having a baby doesn't over ride it. Getting married does.

He will pay child maintenance if you split and the child would get inheritance(half the house and his deposit) if he dies.

I had a Deed of trust because I put the deposit down from our first flat and my ex put nothing. He asked me to marry him, I stupidly said yes, we got married, he then decided he wanted to move so we sold our flat. 3 years later he asked for a divorce, I never got my deposit back and he walked away with half of it. My solicitor said I couldn't get it back as we were married and had sold the flat. Lesson learnt.

I'm all for people protecting their money, deposits and inheritance now.