Mum won't apologise

[muminapickle500]

Here's a thorny one: do I ever speak to my mum again?

She (87) severely upset my youngest DD (23) by publicly calling her into the living room when we had company, and then scolding her on her table manners in the restaurant saying she had embarrassed herself and us (no-one else had noticed). We're agreed that was just mum seeking attention when the spotlight was elsewhere. She does this a lot.

Anyway, my daughter is a sensitive soul and was at the time coming off her meds (SSRIs) and very fragile. Mum knew this. DD burst into tears and ran out of the room - it was the last time she would see her granny before she returns abroad, and the telling off made her doubly upset. It all ended very messily and embarrassingly for all. To her credit DD gathered herself enough to say a proper goodbye, but no apology from mum at the time.

Mum has now asked me to carry a message about something quite separate to DD (she lost her email), but I have told her until a proper apology is forthcoming, it's unlikely DD will want to speak to her. Mum has point-blank refused (no justification given). I am now also minded to go nc with her until she apologises, but haven't said anything yet. Mum is stubborn as hell.

Does Mumsnet have any thoughts? It feels like a hill to die on but I might be over-complicating things.

Granny tells off a 23 year old, who may be fragile, but not so fragile she can't go travelling.
Don't get involved.
Why did DD get so upset, btw? Did she feel wrongly accused, or does she not like anyone challenging her?
The fact that you didn't notice the bad table manners doesn't mean it didn't happen. Granny having form for expecting high standards in public is not so unusual - surely all GC know to up their behaviour game when Granny is around. They might think that Granny's standards are unnecessarily high, but rushing out of the room crying? Is there something else going on, did Granny say something other than what you have been told?
And how is you going NC an appropriate or reasonable response to any of this? I'd have thought an exasperated conversation along the lines of " for goodness sake, Granny, you know she's fragile at the moment, was that really necessary?" would do.

Yes go no contact. Your mother sounds like a class a bit*h. Rather like my own.

My 85 yr old MIL has on occasion commented on my 27 yr old DD's body shape in front of other family members, every time I have said something resulting in my MIL getting stroppy and then trying to turn it around and make it my fault, I can handle her, my Daughter on the other hand feels embarrassed, frustrated and upset. My daughter is now NC with her and that's absolutely fine with me as I can't stand the poisonous old hag and hopefully she's due to expire sooner rather than later

You'd seriously never speak to your mum again because she told your daughter off for bad manners which made her cry?
Surely the actions thought of as rude must have then happened or she just would have said what on earth do you mean?
If she is going travelling, she's going to come across scarier incidents than a telling off by granny!

Granny was rude. As usual though a woman over the age of 60 has to be forgiven because she apparently will have high standards of behaviour. For everyone else but herself it seems.

I would ditch her.

I don't understand how you've reached the conclusion your mum was attention seeking when she called your DD into the lounge to talk to her and you knew nothing about it until your daughter left the room in tears? Sounds like your mum was attempting to keep the conversation private and it's your daughter's reaction which drew attention to it. I don't know if your mum was in the right or wrong but the way you have described events doesn't provide evidence your mum was attention seeking.

You say no one else commented on your daughter's table manners but it doesn't necessarily mean they didn't think she was rude, they just didn't say so. I think it's possible you think your mother had a point as you've been asked but have so far not said what it was your daughter was doing which your mum thought was rude.

I think it's understandable you wanted to comfort your daughter but I'm not sure why you want to get involved in a dispute between two adults. I think you should seek your daughter's permission to share her email address with your mum again and then leave them to sort it out.

Does your Mum properly understand your daughters mental health issues? I don't mean to be patronising, I just know a few of the older generation who don't really 'get' it.

I know you've alluded to previous issues so that would be my main concern. On the basis of this post I do feel your daughters reaction was disproportionate and it was the running out of the room crying that drew attention to it. Perhaps she isn't ready to come of her medication?

Unless you feel your Mum deliberately tried to make her cry then that's a totally different story.

*off

Yeah OK, my point still stands.

Parents should support their children when other people behave like total Cs to them.

I say it 50 times a day, it's no bloody wonder so many women in this country have anxiety and shocking self esteem.

Stuff like touching her face, and wiping her mouth. Things my mum designates as "not ladylike". She wasn't on her phone or anything like that.

Except that’s not what happened according to the OPs update.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would your mother pull up your adult daughter for wiping her mouth at a restaurant? (I'm assuming she was using a napkin.)

A dramatic tear enducing run off crying for being told off for face touching?

Thanks everyone who shared their thoughts, it's given me perspective. I have decided that I won't make a big deal of this and cause a family rift by going publicly nc.
But at the same time I'm still furious that mum wounded DD and doesn't recognise she did anything wrong, and - hand-on-heart - I really don't feel much like talking to her atm. We'll have to see what happens long-term.
I'm sad that she's spoiled her relationship with DD (I can't see this recovering as mum lives abroad and rarely sees her grandkids anyway. But as sensible posters have pointed out, that's hers and DD's issue ).

A couple of things: although the telling off was in private, mum made a big scene beforehand in front of everyone ("come into the front room, I need to talk to you about something"). So it was obvious something was going on.
The table manners thing is a non-issue. My take is that Mum has always needed to be the centre of attention and is addicted to drama. My friend and I were having a nice chat and she might have felt left out at that moment. It was her way of realigning the spotlight (she's always doing this btw). DD has lovely table manners normally, the way I brought her up.
A couple of you say DD should have just sucked it up as part of life, which I think is a bit harsh. When you come off SSRIs it's my experience that it take at least a couple of weeks to feel "normal" again, and the least thing can set you off. The point is, mum knew DD was vulnerable, because I told her beforehand. I believe family members owe each other a duty of care.

So many ' mentally fragile ' young people today . How are they ever going to cope when something really bad happens

“Wounded” is incredibly dramatic. And you keep insisting your mum was the one making a public spectacle but that’s not coming across at all and it was your daughter who fled in tears, which is much more public and noticeable than your mum asking to have a word. I doubt many people are buying the examples you give about the table manners issues because they sound highly improbable.

But you’re sure of what you think and if you don’t want to talk to your mum that’s fine. She’s probably equally put out by your demands of an insincere apology for what she sees as a massive non event.

They can't cope when normal things happen. It's astounding.

Hang on though - OP, are you saying that DD is face touching as a 'nervous habit' while she is coming off SSRIs as a response to that, or has perhaps always had face touching as a kind of tic or habit, and your mother was trying to (and possibly succeeding in) causing her humiliation? Because that's very different.

Tbh I'm not getting a clear picture here.

How horrible.

Your adult children? Maybe.

Would you 'tell off' another grown adult who is not one of your children?

There are quite a few posters commenting that the daughter is a bit of a snowflake, but we don't seem to know much about what Granny actually said - was this a gentle ticking off to which the daughter maybe overreacted? Or was Granny actually gratuitously nasty? The way the conversation went does have a bearing on how reasonable people's reactions are.

My adult children? Er, yes. Definitely.
My grandchildren? Most certainly.
My husband, my parents, my siblings. Yes, yes, yes.
Someone unrelated. Maybe - it depends who they are. But usually just looking at them is enough.
I remember eating in the officers mess and an engineer was eating his pie and chips with a knife and spoon. A flipping spoon. He knew better than that. And when he saw me watching him, he went and got a fork.

I would purely love to have you come and try to tell me off......

You sound lovely...