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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Mum won't apologise

79 replies

muminapickle500 · 04/08/2022 00:47

Here's a thorny one: do I ever speak to my mum again?

She (87) severely upset my youngest DD (23) by publicly calling her into the living room when we had company, and then scolding her on her table manners in the restaurant saying she had embarrassed herself and us (no-one else had noticed). We're agreed that was just mum seeking attention when the spotlight was elsewhere. She does this a lot.

Anyway, my daughter is a sensitive soul and was at the time coming off her meds (SSRIs) and very fragile. Mum knew this. DD burst into tears and ran out of the room - it was the last time she would see her granny before she returns abroad, and the telling off made her doubly upset. It all ended very messily and embarrassingly for all. To her credit DD gathered herself enough to say a proper goodbye, but no apology from mum at the time.

Mum has now asked me to carry a message about something quite separate to DD (she lost her email), but I have told her until a proper apology is forthcoming, it's unlikely DD will want to speak to her. Mum has point-blank refused (no justification given). I am now also minded to go nc with her until she apologises, but haven't said anything yet. Mum is stubborn as hell.

Does Mumsnet have any thoughts? It feels like a hill to die on but I might be over-complicating things.

OP posts:
abblie · 04/08/2022 16:11

muminapickle500 · 04/08/2022 02:28

Sorry, should have explained clearer. I was with my friend in the kitchen, mum called DD into the living room. The first I saw of it was DD rushing out the room in floods of tears. So the scolding was not in public, more a "come into this room I need to have a word" sort of thing.

Show quote history

So no one heard the scolding only your mother and daughter?

AnneLovesGilbert · 04/08/2022 16:36

You only have your daughter’s word for what happened. You can cut your mother off without an excuse if you want to. This sounds like an excuse. You can’t make people apologise. They shouldn’t do if it they don’t mean it. And your daughter said goodbye to your mum so she doesn’t sound like she wants to cut her off.

Natty13 · 04/08/2022 16:42

Honestly if my mum didn't have my back when I had done NOTHING WRONG, I'd be severely upset. You get most of your sense of self esteem, confidence and security from your parents. Why have kiss if you aren't going to protect them from arseholes? And yes, an 87yo arsehole is still an arsehole.

Soontobe60 · 04/08/2022 16:47

layladomino · 04/08/2022 16:01

I think people are missing or ignoring the fact that you've said your mum has form for this sort of thing, and that she deliberately upset your daughter (knowing she is just coming off meds and is more sensitive) to seek attention.

I would support your daughter not having any contact (she is an adult who can decide who she wants in her life) but I wouldn't necessarily go NC myself. I would however make my position clear, which would be that my DD has my support.

But the fact that this conversation took place in private shows that she wasn’t seeking attention! Otherwise shed have pulled her up for whatever it was the DD was doing at the table in the restaurant.

Jalisco · 04/08/2022 16:49

I got that "nobody else noticed" but I am still waiting to hear what it was that your mum noticed that nobody else did. There are lots of things that younger people "don't notice" as being bad manners that are indeed bad manners, or at the very least, are bad manners if you happened to grow up eight decades ago.

To be honest, I am sorry your daughter has had mental health problems and is obviously fragile, but equally she has entirely over-reacted to something that was said in private and behind closed doors, so to speak. She has an excuse for that I suppose. You do not. It is, it seems, six of one and half a dozen of the other, and in your shoes I would probably tell both of them to suck it up and get over it. I certainly wouldn't start being the referee for a ridiculous argument and let it split the family apart over something so trivial.

Soontobe60 · 04/08/2022 16:50

Natty13 · 04/08/2022 16:42

Honestly if my mum didn't have my back when I had done NOTHING WRONG, I'd be severely upset. You get most of your sense of self esteem, confidence and security from your parents. Why have kiss if you aren't going to protect them from arseholes? And yes, an 87yo arsehole is still an arsehole.

We don't actually know what the DD did though. The OP hasn’t told us. It cold be that she was on her phone at the table throughout the meal but the OP doesn’t think thats rude whilst the grandmother does.

Soontobe60 · 04/08/2022 16:50

So come on, OP, what behaviour did your mother say that your DD was doing to tell her off for?

Cognacsoft · 04/08/2022 16:54

When my dm, 85, threatened to cause trouble over my dd’s wedding guest list I told her not to even think of upsetting dd and she could stay away if she was going to be difficult.
I also used f words.
My dm soon realised she was the one who would be excluded in that scenario.

You have to protect your dd.
Your dm is not the important one here.

dapsnotplimsolls · 04/08/2022 16:57

How does your daughter feel about the situation now? Does she want/expect an apology?

Arenanewbie · 04/08/2022 17:01

So how many people were in the room with your DD while Grandma told her off?
what exactly was such a bad manner at the table?

Ladybug14 · 04/08/2022 17:14

It wasn't a public dressing down? It was granny and her friend?

It seems a bit OTT to tell your daughter off about her table manners but if granny has form for this type of thing, as you say, then it's no surprise

I'd let them both get on with it. Not your circus

catandcoffee · 04/08/2022 17:18

My fragile child will always come before anyone,including my Mother, what a nasty woman she is.

takeitandleaveit · 04/08/2022 17:25

Some grandmas are lovely and cuddly and love their family to pieces. Some of them can be a total bitch towards younger family members.

I happen to think that any adult giving another grown adult a telling-off about table manners is bloody rude, no matter what the relationship. Stick up for your dd on this one, OP, and tell your mother that you will not tolerate such behaviour towards your dd again.

GreenManalishi · 04/08/2022 17:39

She's not lost the email address, but pass it on to her again and ask her to communicate directly if she would like to, not via you.

Let your daughter know that whatever she wants to do you will back her, that Granny has "form" and not to take it to heart.

Don't press her for an apology, if you've got to squeeze one out of somebody it's not worth a thing.

godmum56 · 04/08/2022 17:58

I think you should discuss with DD what she wants you to do. make clear that you have got her back and whatever she decides about her grandmother, you will back her up

Notonthestairs · 04/08/2022 18:01

It's not Granny's job to police your adult daughter's table manners.

Fancy picking an argument with someone coming off antidepressants and who is about to go travelling.

I think GreenManalishi's advice is good.

Forward email address to Granny. Tell your daughter you support her whatever she decides.

Any apology will be meaningless.

Natty13 · 04/08/2022 18:06

Soontobe60 · 04/08/2022 16:50

We don't actually know what the DD did though. The OP hasn’t told us. It cold be that she was on her phone at the table throughout the meal but the OP doesn’t think thats rude whilst the grandmother does.

Show quote history

You think that justifies pulling a young woman with fragile mental health into a room full of people and confronting her?

Jesus wept.

MarshaMelrose · 04/08/2022 18:13

I happen to think that any adult giving another grown adult a telling-off about table manners is bloody rude, no matter what the relationship.

I think poor table manners can impact on everyone around them so I'd hope that if friends can't say anything, family would.

iklboo · 04/08/2022 18:14

I think poor table manners can impact on everyone around them so I'd hope that if friends can't say anything, family would.

Nobody else noticed!

MarshaMelrose · 04/08/2022 18:16

@Natty13
You think that justifies pulling a young woman with fragile mental health into a room full of people and confronting her?

The op said...
So the scolding was not in public,

So no confrontation in a room full of people.

MarshaMelrose · 04/08/2022 18:22

iklboo · 04/08/2022 18:14

I think poor table manners can impact on everyone around them so I'd hope that if friends can't say anything, family would.

Nobody else noticed!

But that's not what I replied to.

I replied to the comment...
I happen to think that any adult giving another grown adult a telling-off about table manners is bloody rude, no matter what the relationship.

I have no idea about the ops daughters table manners so I can't comment about that. But I disagree with the poster that one adult is not allowed to tell another off for poor table manners. If I saw my adult children developing poor table maners, I'd tell them.

saraclara · 04/08/2022 18:28

Natty13 · 04/08/2022 18:06

You think that justifies pulling a young woman with fragile mental health into a room full of people and confronting her?

Jesus wept.

Show quote history

The room wasn't full of people. OP has clarified and the telling off wasn't in public at all. The GM called the young woman into a room to moan to her. Only the two of them were there.

Which is why I don't understand the accusation of the GM doing it for attention, or why OP initially said that the telling off was in public.

GetThatHelmetOn · 04/08/2022 18:29

I never understand people demanding an apology, if you need to ask for one, it will never be sincere!

Your mother is 87, people get grumpy with age and although rudeness shouldn’t be accommodated, it is probably a good time for you and DD to realise that grandma’s comments no longer need to be taken to heart.

Now, the reaction of your DD is not normal, she is an adult and needs to learn to manage her emotions, I suggest you don’t try to force an apology or a relationship between the two. Your mother will go home in a few days and you can put the incident behind you but let your DD decide what is the level contact she wants to keep with relatives and yes, it is absolutely ok to ignore her GM’s calls and emails.

saraclara · 04/08/2022 18:29

I'm also guessing that the 23 year old was on her phone, and the fact that no-one else mentioned it doesn't mean that they didn't find it bad mannered. I HATE when people do that. Whatever age they are.

GetThatHelmetOn · 04/08/2022 18:31

Yep, incredibly rude to be in the phone at the table, and that even includes posting photos of your fucking plate in Instagram while ignoring people around you.