Is he interested or should I not bother?

[hotcoldnotsold]

NC for this. Want to caveat by saying I'm a seasoned OLD dater and know that mixed signals means 'not interested'. Certainly starting a thread to decipher behaviour is not a good sign for early days. But recently out of a 2 year relationship and lockdown isolation so doubting my judgement. Wise MN advice would be valued!

I got chatting to a guy on Hinge, both mid-late 30s. We chatted for 4 days on the app and he then asked me out to drinks. I noticed that he would reply once a day between 9-11pm which I thought meant he had a dedicated time to correspondence. Suits me as I don't like long text chats. We had a great first date - drinks turned to dinner turned to dancing till 2am and then a great shag back at his. I always get sex out of the way on a first or second date so this isn't unusual for me - and all my LT relationships/marriage started this way.

He was very cuddly all night, showed me around his flat (defo not married/no gf/no kids/not divorced), made me breakfast the next morning. When I left he asked me to let him know when I was next free. 2 days later, having not heard anything from him, I asked him out and arranged the date for a week later. There was radio silence for the week until the actual date...Date was great again, lovely long evening, back to his where we had one of those long all night really personal chats - he told me that he was a relationship guy and not great at casual. Also said he was really glad he had met me. I joked about his regimented texting schedule and he said he had never thought of it that way, but always had his phone switched off at work. He works in an office so not sure why tbh..He made breakfast again next morning. Left it saying he'd definitely see me next week but no checking of diaries or concrete plans.

Then again 5 days of radio silence before he suggested we meet up a few days later. Now if we hadn't had these long deep convos and really intimate nights, I wouldn't have minded the no contact between dates. But it seems odd to go from being so open and cuddly to just nothing till a week later! It's left me feeling wary, rather than excited and also like we have to start again from scratch to re-establish the connection. But I really really like him ON the dates and wondering if it's a sign of emotional unavailability/just lack of interest, or this is a common way of dating? Not sure if I should go out on this date or bin it off because I'm feeling confused by the hot/cold behaviour?

I think that if a guy really likes you, then having sex on the first date isn’t going to put him off. Some guys may shag you a few times then wander off to find a new challenge, some will stick around because they like you and want to see how it goes.
it doesn’t sound like he’s really into you though, radio silence is never a good sign. If they are keen they want to keep in more regular contact. Not bothering to message between dates seems lazy and disengaged, like he can’t really be arsed. That’s my personal opinion anyway

I think what some people are getting at @hotcoldnotsold is that if you want to find a relationship partner in the OLD world you’re better off holding off with sex on the first couple of dates at least to see which one of them are really in for something more than FWB.

I know you want good sex and to check the compatibility before investing your feelings. However you just admitted you “got naked” with somebody before you felt comfortable asking them straight what’s up.

It’s not about NOT having sex but having it with someone who’s on the same page as you.

Because you’re the one stressing over weeklong radio silence from him.

if I was you I’d feel I’m his bootycall and it’s very one sided. Guys who pursue you act differently.

You’re probably know well what a man who’s interested is acting like - as you said you’re seasoned In OLD, had few “flings”, you’ve been married and in a long term relationship.

Which category he’s more likely to be? Dyslexic or not, texting once a week is hardly trying to establish any sort of relationship beyond drinks followed by a shag.

That may be your experience (and in shines through in your posts on the subject) but it isn’t everyone’s experience. It is entirely possible that your negative bias affects the experience you are having.

Definitely not married or in a relationship. He flat shares (we are in London) and I met his flatmate, no trace of a woman there.

He could live there in the week for work then travel home on a weekend.

Hi folks - thanks for all the responses. Decided I didn't want to waste anymore time thinking about this/him, and prefer to draw a line under it. Asked him if he was actually interested in getting to know me, because the radio silence after dates made me think he was after something more casual than I was. Which was fair, and I had a fun time, but ultimately not what I'm after. Will update with his reply. He has read the message. With his regimented texting pattern, I imagine it will be after work he responds, if at all.

Just wanted to clarify something - I posted to ask whether I was unreasonable in thinking he wasn't interested despite how into me he seemed on dates. It was the hot and cold that raised my spidey senses, and sometimes I can write men off too quickly so always good to get a second opinion. I do think he's likely not over an ex, or interested in someone else rather than married or a jerk. Flat is definitely his - he rents, and first Google search of his name has this address as his company is registered to it. Also, our first date was on a Friday night that spilt into Sat noon. Think he's just a standard young professional London guy who's trying to find the right woman, and enjoying sex along the way (like I am!).

I have no issue with first date sex on OLD because that's how I met my exH and 2 LT relationships (a 3 year one where we lived together, and my last 2 year one). So OLD has been successful for me. And despite the splits I still think they're great guys, and didn't care at all about sex too soon. In fact, my ex that I met on Bumble - I started my period during first date sex - made his sheets look like a crime scene, and he was so lovely and understanding, got me a tea, soaked my dress and offered to get me tampons, it told me more about his character than a few more dates would have.

I think in London, men and women are far more relaxed about first date sex and casual sex. I personally enjoy casual sex, did it loads even before OLD, and always assume that a guy won't call after a shag. It's always a nice surprise if they do. That's what I meant by being seasoned - I don't get disheartened or hopeless if dates don't work out. Or feel like I've been played. I liked this guy but also didn't want to waste more time on dates with him, because THAT would have led to more investment/heartache. Best to get out early. And if we hadn't slept together - I would have not realised this emotionally unavailable side to him until months in with deep feelings. Now, I can shrug it off as it was just 2 dates and mild disappointment but the sex was good after a dry patch. So not a complete loss!

And if we hadn't slept together - I would have not realised this emotionally unavailable side to him until months in with deep feelings.

I doubt, he would most likely not hear from him at all last try e first date without sex so could’ve cut
the losses then.

I understand where you coming from although for me it would be a “loss” if I had sex with a guy & he ghosted me afterwards…

You’ve got no way to tell if a guy is only after a shag or a relationship if you sleep with them straight away IMO.

It’s not about being a prude or anything, it’s just you’re OLD to actually date someone not to hook up could of times.

I never did OLD so I’m genuinely curious as to how does it work in terms of getting someone else’s intention PRIOR to having sex, or it doesn’t matter at all if he’s had someone else last night in the same bed sheets😬

We all have different approaches to getting to know people. I agree that how fast you have sex with a person doesn’t matter. In my long term relationships - there was no difference between the ones that happened quickly Vs where there was a wait.

However - it seems that you think the speed does make a difference.
’…And if we hadn't slept together - I would have not realised this emotionally unavailable side to him until months in…’

You seem to expect communication in early days of dating to be different because you already had sex. If you didn’t sleep together and he took time to answer and not text much between dates - like it is now - would it be ok then?
It can’t be both.

Anyway - good kick with dating and having fun too.

But you never have a way of knowing what anyone is after... even months or years in. I mean how many women spend years to find out the guy doesn't want to get married or have kids or something else. There is no certainty with dating and relationships no matter what you do. All you can do is have fun along the way and hope it works out.

I totally get that for some women sex is something they only will have with a guy who wants a relationship and they feel cheated if he doesn't. However, they should definitely not be having sex with that man until there's a relationship chat. But not all women are like this. Plenty of women like me can just enjoy sex with no expectations. And I can be disappointed if someone doesn't want to progress further but my disappointment is no more whether it's rejection after first date no sex or first date sex. The sex didn't add to my feelings for him. And it didn't diminish his feelings for me. Actually it was the least significant part of our dates. The long conversations, sharing of personal experiences, chemistry, ease of being together, were far more important.

But, any guy who rejects you for having sex too soon is not someone who'd make an equal partner anyway.

No it doesn't matter, not to me anyway. And most people are sensible enough to wash their sheets regularly, lol. You realise at some point if you do sleep with a guy, he's probably wanked in those same sheets....? Or maybe his ex gf bought those sheets?

Dating does involve sex for a lot of people. Why would I commit to a relationship with a man before sleeping with him or kissing him? Imagine falling for a guy and discovering he is awful in bed or has a weird kink. Sex is an important part of a romantic relationship and you can't know someone fully till you've done it.

No I don't expect communication to be different because we had sex. I expected it to be different because he spent the whole night and a lot of the next day talking and sharing about his life, showing me his craft projects, talking me through all the family photos on his wall, etc. If this had been a quick shag, and out the door - I would have expected similar communication .

My point is - the aftermath of sex shows you how emotionally open a guy is. This guy was very very open and sharing after sex so I would expect his communication to be the same. If he'd rolled over gone to sleep, not talked much, sent me off with a peck and a hug, I'd not expect much by way of communication. Lots of guys are like this - they go stiff and awkward after the sex. He was even more chatty than on the date. So to go from SO chatty to just silence is why I realised something is off. And I wouldn't have known it if sex hadn't forced the situation.

LOL, the delusion.

OP has literally posted about a man who lied to get what he wanted. It's not a 'negative bias', it's the truth. Dating apps are fucking grim. They are full of predators and liars. Anyone who isn't thick can see that. That doesn't mean they can't ever be useful or that every single men on them is awful, but you need to have your guard up and assume you're dealing with a liar or a future faker, at least at first.

Yep, very telling. Talking and sharing about HIS life. Sounds like he enjoyed an audience, banging on about himself, showing you his craft projects, his family photos. How much did he ask about you and your life? Plenty of men will happily lap up attention and emotional energy.

@pixie5121

Bitterness turns nice people off.

I'm not bitter. I'm realistic. If a man has so little empathy that he doesn't know what an ordeal OLD is for women, then why would I be interested?

I think he's got a girlfriend, someone he doesn't live with but see's her on an evening / weekend.

Sounds like he's having his cake and eating it too.

I think if your happy for casual - go for it. If you want something more maybe continue OLD.

UPDATE

He responded, and outside his regular 9-11pm slot so he can make exceptions... Glad I asked the question and had my instinct validated. I replied to say it's best we don't meet on Tue and draw a line under it. Appreciated the honesty, and wished him well.

“Hey, sorry for not texting. I really enjoyed spending time with you and you're a great girl. Our first date was the most fun evening I've had with a stranger. It wasn't casual for me as I thought it could have potential to be more as we have so much in common and I do like you. But I don't know why I'm not feeling like I should, definitely not to do with you though. It might be I'm still not over my breakup though I thought I was or because I'm in a weird headspace generally. I don't want to mess you around so if you don't want to see me on Tuesday I understand. Hope your bike trip goes well and everything works out for you. X"

Well, that's that. Relief to not second guess. Can't fault him as if I'm not the right woman, nothing either of us said/did/when we had sex would have changed things. Proves again that if mixed signals and inconsistency it's not the right relationship! Will trust my instinct next time.

@pixie5121

Honestly, if you can't see men as human beings, with needs/wants/flaws like women do, you'll struggle. You seem very bitter and jaded. I've been dating in London for 16 years and have never thought about men, OLD or dating like you do. In fact I have friends who've been single ages who don't think like you do.

I was in HIS home so of course he was talking about it. If he was in my home I'd be going on about my bike collection... And why would you assume he wasn't asking me about myself?? It's a conversation and he can be interested in me and talk about himself too. It's like you have the worst opinion of everything, but the only person being this angry/upset is you. I had 2 fun dates, made a nice connection, got to go dancing, had a few orgasms, well cooked breakfast and it's ended courteously with no bad blood. I won't even think twice about it tomorrow let alone feel like I've been conned or he's an asshole. He's allowed to change his mind. Hell I took marriage vows and changed my mind and my exH doesn't think I conned him...

Fair enough, although I really wouldn’t overestimate men hygiene awareness regarding things like changing bedsheets or towels 😬😂Unless he’s got a housekeeper …

I think there’s an area between sex with someone on a first date and committing to a relationship before sex. For me that’s what dating is for really. And if along the line I feel like we click personality wise, I feel comfortable to sleep with someone.

Anyway, all the best OP, hope you’re going to find whoever you’re looking for :)

What has he lied about??? You really need to stop projecting. You can want a relationship, have sex and CHANGE YOUR MIND or think it's not the right person AFTER sex. Have you ever considered that the men you think are future fakers or whatever it is - want a future/relationship etc, just not with you? And sometimes it takes a few dates to realise that.

Not contacting between dates used to how it worked before mobile phones etc. People have become a bit needy. All good if you're on the same page but maybe this chap isnt online or on his phone all the time. If it's only been a few dates so far do people really expect so much contact between meetings?

People have become a bit needy

Human need hasn't evolved within the 20 odd years since we started using mobiles. People have always had this level of need. We used to sit by the phone in the hallway, and jump when it rang.

The only difference is that now we can contact each other all the time, differences in contact preference become evident sooner.

I’m not surprised you are single. The disdain and bitterness that seeps plentifully into every post of yours, as well as absolute derision for anyone too ‘thick’ to agree with you, is palpable.

Oh the lofty heights of that barricaded tower you deign to look down on us all from…

I’ll carry on as I am I think, which is largely meeting great guys with whom I’ve had some exciting adventures with, and using my unbelievably complex honing skills with which to largely swipe left on the duds. It’s not difficult if you have a modicum of emotional intelligence to find the experience useful, fun, and a great way to learn about yourself and grow.

I agree with you OP and have slept with all of my boyfriends (including DH) by date 3. I think sexual compatibility is important and don't want to be invested in a relationship for weeks and then have then ghost me if they just wanted sex. I also enjoy having sex and think that is normal.

For me though - it wouldn't work with this man because
A) he barely texts you - you seem to have a your own time slot
B) he isn't available at the weekend

Now both need to suit for it to work, in my view anyway