In laws and holiday finances / expectations

[OLP2019]

Can’t work out if iabu since historically I do think I’ve encouraged some of this behaviour.
Quick back story is dh and I have lived overseas for many years and in that time have built a very successful business and don’t have many money worries.
DMIL did badly in her divorce from DFIL 20 odd years ago - has always been very self sufficient and owns her own home etc with a small mortgage but doesn’t have a large pension and is in fact still working part time at almost 70 (though is young and fit)
Over the years I’ve encouraged DH to treat his mum for example paying for flights to visit us instead of xmas and bday gifts and have even at times talked to him about ways to help her and relieve her stress (which she talks to me about) regarding having to still work and pay her mortgage and having only a small pension etc as it seems wild to me to have her struggle when we’re able to help her
He’s always wanting to do things for her but is also respectful of it being our finances and doesn’t do anything without talking to me first.
Anyway it’s always been fine she’ll come and visit and we’ll mostly foot the cost of eating out and that sort of thing but she has done things in lieu such as babysit or cooking dinner that kind of thing.

Anyway she visited recently for longer than usual and firstly it illustrated to me that I definitely have a limit of tolerance even though she insists “oh I’m not a guest I’m not in the way “ etc the reality is we’re constantly treating her and also factoring her into any plans we have - she is young at heart and fun and our friends like her so this isn’t really an issue

What did become an issue was this visit her entitlement definitely stepped up a notch. For example in almost 4 weeks she didn’t buy so much as a bottle of wine (though drank our stash daily) and even went so far as to inform me one day that we needed milk bread and eggs instead of - you know - just going to buy some !!! She didn’t cook dinner once, she didn’t buy us a meal out once even though we went for many (including inexpensive breakfasts ) . If we went to the supermarket she would say as I paid “oh do you want some money?” And I would think well give me some as a gesture I’m not going to ask !!!

Anyway she’s coming back to visit again this time with SIL BIL and two nephews and we’ve actually had to rent another house for them to stay in since our house doesn’t have the space (they’re paying their own flights but haven’t offered anytbint for accommodation)
I would like to suggest that we do a holiday “kitty” where we all put in an amount and all purchases (groceries booze etc) are paid with that - obvs we will likely pay for some meals out for all of us and I’m ok with that but I don’t want to be renting them a house and also getting groceries in for a 2 week holiday !! How can I suggest this without sounding like a weirdo ?
For context we often go away with my parents and my sis and family and we always do a kitty which we top up a few times over the holiday - and if any party pays for a meal on their on credit card we keep track and sort it out at the end so no one is out of pocket. The main difference is the finances of my family being more equal and DH sister also struggles
Dh family not like this but also don’t holiday like this ever since I’ve known them so I don’t want to seem controlling and tight !! Personally it's more about the gestures (cooking a meal for example) than paying for stuff because otherwise it feels like taking the piss

I think a kitty is a great idea (we've done similar). Maybe an email along the lines of 'really looking forward to seeing you all, we'll pop some goodies in the fridge for your arrival. To save any hassle, how about we have a kitty for the holiday, to pay for meals out etc, as much as we love you, we can't afford to treat you for the whole trip 😄) I suggest we put x amount in per person? How does that sound, happy to do it another way of you'd prefer' Then go on about a few places to visit etc. that way you can pay what you want but pull it out the kitty when you feel they are taking the piss.

Kitty? Send her the invoice for their house rental costs!
Who lives in her street because next year she will be coming with a coach party?!

I think I would just say, it would be great to have you over on Tuesday and Saturday, let’s plan for a meal out on Thursday. Happy to drop you at the supermarket so you can pick up anything else you need, I’ll bring sandwiches for that day we go to the beach.

We will always pay for my mum and often treat her with extras. This is your DH mum, if you can afford to pay for her you should. You make it sound as if you are doing her such a great favour by paying her flights to come and see you, I would expect you would want to do this. I agree not necessarly the wider family, although we would.

Horses for courses I suppose but it just seems so petty.

I wouldn't suggest a kitty, or make any announcement about not being able to afford to 'treat' them to everything...just find a way of setting clear boundaries without making anyone feel uncomfortable.

I would probably go with inviting them over to yours for one meal and/or possibly inviting them all out for one meal (if you can afford it - saying this is your treat). Any meals out beyond that split unless they offer to pay to treat you.

Very minimal basics in the second house, if you want to do that for them. Then don't get involved in supermarket shops or if you do need to give a lift don't do any shopping for yourself at the same time and meet them back at the car after they've paid.

Unfortunately, we've got experience of the descent of treating people in the family into being taken for granted and then blatant piss taking.

Why are you paying for the bil’s house hire? I get that you’ve moved, but tough, I wouldn’t expect my bil to pay for my holiday. I certainly wouldn’t be getting their shopping for them-basics to start them off, ok. As for meals out, surely bil pays for his family, you pay for yours, split mil’s?

Can you afford to pay off MILs mortgage? If you can without it impacting you then I would do it - and use that as a conversation around making things easier for her - giving her space in her finances . So you have done 'your bit'.

In terms of the holiday I would assume that the holiday house is their house and expect it to be treated as so. I would perhaps put 1/2 days worth of food 'in' to start them off and then go with their 'space' their problem. I'd leave instructions as to the shopping options on the side so that they understand the expectations and can't claim they couldn't work out the local system.

I'd prearranged with your husband when you plan to eat out - for 10 your going to have to book tables I assume? Leave that info - we've booked Italian for Tuesday and Indian for Friday, we'll do a roast at ours on Sunday... leave them lots of gaps to fill but looses the expectation that they will spend all their time at yours.

Why would you pay for almost all their food, I don’t get it. As for driving in your country, I would wonder if it’s because they’d have to pay to hire a car.

Please sit back and observe this time. How do they treat you? Did they bring a gift? Etc.

How much were their flights? Is that usually as much/more than they depend on a holiday? It's difficult because they wouldn't be travelling to your location if you didn't live there, you're clearly much wealthier than they are. This should've all been discussed before booking, they've now paid for fights on a holiday they might not be able to afford because up to now you and your husband have paid for everything and that's accepted as the status quo.
If it's not the money it's the being waited on that's the irritant, that's easily addressed, I cooked tonight who's volunteering for tomorrow? I never expect my parents to pay we would always pay for them (although that frequently involves a battle with my dad so they do pay sometimes), actually they are better off than us DF retired DM part time, mortgage paid, plenty in the bank, but when we were young and even young adults they always paid without question even for partners etc, we can afford to do it now so it's time we did.

Your dh needs to sort it with his sibling. He needs to say-
“We will set you up in the holiday house with a few basics ie bread butter milk loo roll coffee etc and then you need to get to the supermarket for whatever you need for rest of your stay it’s - in x place (directions). I suggest we take it in turns to cook so we will come to you and you cook and you come to us and we cook. On nights out I suggest we pay for ourselves. Of course I’m happy to pay towards mums meal if we have a night out but bro/sis we can’t afford to pay for all of you after all we are footing the bill for your villa. Also don’t feel you have to spend all your time with us I’m sure you want to go off for the day with the boys on your own after all it is their holiday isn’t it. It’s up to mum if she wants to go with you or do her own thing“

so hopefully that will set out the expectations

A way to get MIL to cook is to say that your DH prefers her cooking, I guarantee it will work!!

Beyond frustrating. My MIL is similar. Doesn’t contribute a bean (money or effort) during her frequent visits. I find it endlessly annoying.

She’s always mentioning budgeting too. No shit, she retired at age 57 for no actual reason. So 14 years later, she’s bored, complains endlessly about everyone and everything and has much less retirement money than she would have done if she’d worked to 70 (she’s also fit and in good health).

My MIL has the audacity to complain that we only ever go to the local play park. We’ve actually got memberships to all of the local attractions, but I’m not paying £15+ for her to go into too!! And there’s always a lunch out, takeaway in and coffees/cakes in cafes….that she never ever pays for. It doesn’t create any hardship for us to pay for her, but it’s grating and I just don’t see why we should!! She’s here again tomorrow for the long weekend 🤦🏼‍♀️

Agree with PP who say just point your inlaws in the direction of the supermarket. Also, I’d perhaps say “we’ve ordered 6 bottles of wine for the hols, here are the details if anyone wants to restock once they’re gone”.

She is taking the piss OP and clearly thinks you are so loaded that you don't notice these things- my FIL stayed with us quite a bit when we were overseas and here in UK too- he always suggests taking us out for a meal - we can pick- and always brings a couple of bottles with him -- he's comfortable but not loaded! I'm not a Penny pincher at all but would be annoyed I admit- people should offer and in good Grace. I would be quite brutal this time and get some basics in and tell them where supermarket is. I also would suggest your H sends an email out asking if you go out whether people would rather pay for themselves only or split bills to save awkwardness- maybe they think you will pay for all of them all the time!!

our bil is extremely well off and we often find it sad at the ‘bil can pay for it’ when he’s not there or ‘we could pay for it’, said as the person offering looks away/down. We always overpay just to make sure he gets something so I totally get the ‘she offered but didn’t’ thing

FloweryCurtainTwitcher
"you have invited guests then you feed them and entertain them
you say that you are well off but clearly are not if it bothers you
fur coat and no knickers lifestyle?"

No need for that last comment Flowery. You may be a lot younger than me but that comment implies the OP is a prostitute

Buy a few essentials for the first night at the house and leave it at that.

No it doesn’t!
it means that it is all about the show
google it. Nothing to do with prostitution

Does where and when I come from

Where is that?
it means style over substance
all about the show but you can’t afford it

people see the fur coat and it is impressive but you don’t have enough money for basics (the knickers)

living a flash lifestyle beyond your means

I think with the best will in the world its time to get a little bit real here for DH;s family. My son and his partner are very wealthy and I am not. I get invited to stay and I love going,they have a beautiful home and treat me beyond well.So I make sure my stays are infrequent and short! I love them dearly and they love me the same but there is no way I could keep up with their lifestyle.I have self respect and pride and for that reason a meal out is lovely together and they make adjustments for me so I can treat them,So if I suggest the meal they will say something like lets go to I dunno a lovely little italian and not a big fancy pants bistro costing 5 times the amount.This all works well for all of us. I bake them their favourites before I go or buy some gifts like wine and nice nibbles or some plants for their garden. Its all about respect for each other and no one being made to feel uncomfortabe .Our best days though are always the ones that end up costing nothing much at all,followed by wine and board games infront of the fire,giggling away. I know their lifestyle is vastly different to mine and I don;t want to take anything more than their time from them,If they suggest something and I know I cannot financially do that then I don;t go.Your inlaws and extended family would maybe learn a lesson or two from our set up.Its about respect for each other and love not what you can squeeze out your loved ones.I have had some wonderful times and been very very spoilt by my son and his partner and I have been very greatful but thats been of their choosing and because they wanted to never ever because I thought I deserved it or was in any way entitled to it. I do believe you and your husband should be working on the same page though. Maybe its too late for this trip but for next time sort it all out before hand together as a family.If they have any morals they will gladly meet you as much in the middle as they are able.I would hope,

Do you think she might be struggling financially more than you realise?

The phrase would be uttered darkly by Irish grandmother and aged great aunts, in 1960s & 1970s in deepest darkest Kent, closely followed by one of aged great aunts saying "She's no better than she ought to be", and lots of knowing nods and sideways glances. These 2 phrases were their worst insult

Yes, get a kitty and a rota for cooking meals. Don’t do lots of treating. Put the basics in their accommodation to start them off - bread, milk, cheese, fruit and some wine, and then tell them where the nearest shop is. I’d also be asking for a contribution to the cost of the accommodation.

I have a similar issue with my in laws and I understand the resentment completely. I am very happy for us to treat them and we have until very recently paid for all meals out when we visit or they visit, paid fully for week long holidays, etc. I love being able to treat both of our families and have nice experiences together but it becomes an issue if people aren't grateful. For instance, we had PIL and SIL over for a week recently and it was hurtful to us because they would plan days out for just themselves and not invite us to come along as well. They left messes all over our home, and when I would ask for help tidying their things up, they would ignore me. When they weren't out they would be in their rooms napping or "relaxing" and would ignore our one year old but then complain when he wouldn't willingly go to them when they showed him a couple of minutes of attention. I wouldn't mind spending money on them and treating them while they visited if they were respectful of our home, included us in at least some of their plans and made an effort to contribute where they can (like offering to buy a coffee). But, I don't like feeling like a servant and I hate how they only engage with our child when it suits them. Luckily, my DH agrees and so we have now made it clear that we would love for them to visit but they need to stay in a local hotel and pay for it themselves. We are happy to have them over for meals and we will take them for at least one nice dinner but we won't be paying for all of their meals, etc.

OP, in your shoes I would buy a few essentials for the their first day and leave instructions for how to get to the market, numbers for local takeaways, and car services so they can get themselves where they need to go. And then let them know when you are happy to have them over for meals/treat them. When it comes to days out, maybe send them links to where you're going so they can purchase their tickets or whatever and for other meals out maybe jump in and ask for the bill to be split? I think they will get the message pretty quickly that you aren't just going to provide for their entire holiday.

I do think renting the house is a nice thing to do and means you have paid more than enough of their holiday already.

It's not quite the same thing, but we have a similar situation with some of DH's friends.

Way back in the day DH was wealthier than his friends and would treat them all the time. It's 20 years on and the truth is they just expect it now even though their circumstances have gone up and ours have probably gone down post children, change in professions etc. The last straw for me was last year when once again we had the entire summer (after a blessed hiatus during covid) with his friends inviting themselves (and some of their own friend we did not know) to our home (we live in a tourist area that has a big festival every year). After a couple of weeks of just expectations that we would provide everything and pay for everything (and DH likes to be generous) the only gesture made towards us was when they asked if there was anything I wanted from the shop. I said we needed watermelon and some milk. And when they came back they put their hand out for the money (and ate my fucking watermelon). Years of resentment building then this as the last straw resulted in me very seriously losing it. Possibly damaging those friendships irrevocably (and I do not even care tbh, although DH does).

So, yes I think it has to be dealt with before the resentment and anger and sense of being taken for granted becomes overwhelming.