In laws and holiday finances / expectations

[OLP2019]

Can’t work out if iabu since historically I do think I’ve encouraged some of this behaviour.
Quick back story is dh and I have lived overseas for many years and in that time have built a very successful business and don’t have many money worries.
DMIL did badly in her divorce from DFIL 20 odd years ago - has always been very self sufficient and owns her own home etc with a small mortgage but doesn’t have a large pension and is in fact still working part time at almost 70 (though is young and fit)
Over the years I’ve encouraged DH to treat his mum for example paying for flights to visit us instead of xmas and bday gifts and have even at times talked to him about ways to help her and relieve her stress (which she talks to me about) regarding having to still work and pay her mortgage and having only a small pension etc as it seems wild to me to have her struggle when we’re able to help her
He’s always wanting to do things for her but is also respectful of it being our finances and doesn’t do anything without talking to me first.
Anyway it’s always been fine she’ll come and visit and we’ll mostly foot the cost of eating out and that sort of thing but she has done things in lieu such as babysit or cooking dinner that kind of thing.

Anyway she visited recently for longer than usual and firstly it illustrated to me that I definitely have a limit of tolerance even though she insists “oh I’m not a guest I’m not in the way “ etc the reality is we’re constantly treating her and also factoring her into any plans we have - she is young at heart and fun and our friends like her so this isn’t really an issue

What did become an issue was this visit her entitlement definitely stepped up a notch. For example in almost 4 weeks she didn’t buy so much as a bottle of wine (though drank our stash daily) and even went so far as to inform me one day that we needed milk bread and eggs instead of - you know - just going to buy some !!! She didn’t cook dinner once, she didn’t buy us a meal out once even though we went for many (including inexpensive breakfasts ) . If we went to the supermarket she would say as I paid “oh do you want some money?” And I would think well give me some as a gesture I’m not going to ask !!!

Anyway she’s coming back to visit again this time with SIL BIL and two nephews and we’ve actually had to rent another house for them to stay in since our house doesn’t have the space (they’re paying their own flights but haven’t offered anytbint for accommodation)
I would like to suggest that we do a holiday “kitty” where we all put in an amount and all purchases (groceries booze etc) are paid with that - obvs we will likely pay for some meals out for all of us and I’m ok with that but I don’t want to be renting them a house and also getting groceries in for a 2 week holiday !! How can I suggest this without sounding like a weirdo ?
For context we often go away with my parents and my sis and family and we always do a kitty which we top up a few times over the holiday - and if any party pays for a meal on their on credit card we keep track and sort it out at the end so no one is out of pocket. The main difference is the finances of my family being more equal and DH sister also struggles
Dh family not like this but also don’t holiday like this ever since I’ve known them so I don’t want to seem controlling and tight !! Personally it's more about the gestures (cooking a meal for example) than paying for stuff because otherwise it feels like taking the piss

I think suggesting a kitty may sound odd. What might work better is setting expectations on the limit of your hospitality. So message them and say that as they have their own accommodation you thought it would work for people to come to yours for say 2 x per week for a meal and then eat out once.

If they've not got their own vehicle then suggest a weekly or twice weekly supermarket trip "for you to get what you need in the apartment ". Have separate trolleys and make it clear to them that people are responsible for their own groceries.

Spend less time with them and make it clear to DH that if he treats them it's from his own solo funds.

I think your idea of a kitty is best. Get them supplies in and say can they each contribute so much either each day or a total amount. I’d put it in an email to them before they come. Just say although you are happy to treat them, you cannot unfortunately pay for everything whilst they are here. Ask them would they like to put into a kitty each day or pay via bank transfer before they come.

I think there is a massive difference in covering costs for your husbands mum and paying for a whole other family. We are in a similar situation with my Dad in that we have a much higher income and wouldn’t ask him to pay for shopping etc when he stays. He does, however always stump up for a meal or to say thank you or pay for a take away for example.
There is no way I would be paying for a whole other family for two weeks though. Get in tea, coffee, bread and milk to start them off and leave a list of local shops and restaurants, cafes and takeaways. Make sure you manage expectations before they arrive by inviting them to yours for a meal one evening in the first week and organise one meal out before they leave, then leave them to it.

I don’t think a kitty is a good plan since they’re in a separate house they can get their own food in.

And you could easily have accepted MIL’s contribution towards groceries before, just say yes thank you very much and let her pay!

Tricount! This app is life changing for groups. Everyone enters in what they spend and who they spent it on and at the end the app divvys up who owes what. My good it’s brilliant. No “kitty” ever again. You end up wanting to spend to bring what you owe down.

Don't misread me we are happy to make sure they have a good time including paying for almost everything - it's the gesture of making a meal or re stocking basics like mike and eggs that then goes a long way - in fact it may have been I dropped her for a wander on my way to work when she told me about the milk bread and eggs that really pissed me off - why not just get them ? I then had to go to a shop to stock up

@intrigued you might be right I have been known to be a bit pass agg so I'll try not to be next time

But you say this is a recent thing that has “gone up a notch”? Have her circumstances deteriorated? How old is she?

and if she offers like she did last time. Just say “shall we say 50%?”

I mean she explicitly asked if you’d like a contribution!

She offered, you should’ve accepted, it’s hardly fair to hold this against her - you had the opportunity to accept this.

Hmm possibly she has some more recent concerns - she's under 70 and I would like to help in a way that means she doesn't have to worry about working however just taking it for granted is grating on me if I'm honest

I do see the argument that she offered I really do but it's because I know she's not expecting me to say yes iyswim !! For example once buying dinner they only took cash and I didn't have enough so asked her and she wasn't happy about it !
She does however not mind spending money on trinkets and souvenirs

Just step back. Separate out some finances. Let your husband do what he wants. He may agree with you, he may not. Ask him what his plans are for the upcoming holiday/financing it and, again, step back.

@lassof that's good advice for sure ! Not my circus !!

I think you might BBU as are you factoring in cultural expectations? In my dh's culture when you invite someone to stay in your house/out for a meal you cover the cost. This would especially be the case if it were your parents.
My MIL, SIL and dn and dn came for 4 weeks one year and we covered everything. To expect them to pay for anything would be unheard of. Equally if I went to SILs House I wouldn't expect to pay for anything either.
YABU to simmer and not lay down some clear expectations. It just might not be from their cultural norms. My DH still gets shocked that my DPs suggest we go out for a meal but then we have to pay half of it.

I don't think you should have been expected to pay for the holiday accommodation for the other relatives. I think this needs to be cleared up or else they are going to expect you to fork out for everything. Was it taken for granted you would be paying.

Your mil is one thing - paying for everything is fine as her son can afford it and she cannot.
Your other relatives - just talk to your husband beforehand snd establish things from the start. Buy a few basics for them then as PPs suggest point out where the shops are. I can't imagine you are expecting to eat all three meals a day together - they will surely take themselves off for the day occasionally too.
As for meals you/your husband cook - hopefully they will bring some wine. And hopefully they will cook for you at their rental too.
Meals out: make it clear bill will be split between you and bil/sil. Do not offer to cover the whole meal. They should cover the whole meal a couple times as a thank you for free accommodation!
If it's made clear from the start there should be no problem. A kitty thing seems a bit of a palaver and there's alway 'oh I don't have the money now I'll add to it later (never)'.

I think it's good that the relatives are staying in separate accommodation ( albeit that you're paying for it) as it gives everyone a chance to reset expectations.

You're giving off mixed messages if you simultaneously want to enable MIL to stop working but are upset by the cost of eggs.

The issue appears to be that you want MIL to make small symbolic payments to show her thanks, but perhaps it's more realistic for her to demonstrate that through actions, so when she says you're out of something ask her to get it but do give her the money for it.

You sound like you genuinely want the family to have a fab time and it's just for a bit much at times which I totally get.

My advice:

-next time MIL makes an offer to contribute financially (which you know is an empty gesture) you could say 'very kind of you MiL, there's no need-maybe if you cooked dinner a couple of times that would be an amazing contribution'. That ways he's clear on your expectations and can feel like she's done something. She has obviously got used to everything being paid for and probably unaware that her relatively small gesture of cooking is so appreciated

-the renting if the house and paying for I think is perfect and lovely. You say when they booked to come over you had the room and have since moved. So I think it would be unfair to pass on this cost to them if they weren't expecting it and you can afford it

-agree with pp to stick the house with basics and perhaps email to say you are doing so but that someone in their party will need to drive to go to the supermarket and restock as and when they're needed

-I also think holiday kitty's work when everyone has a level playing field for finances but can get a bit tit for tat when some struggle more than others. So perhaps agree with your DH what you will and won't pay for: eg won't pay for food in their house, will pay for meals out when all together but omit to twice per week etc, won't pay for attractions/days out ... that sort of thing

Hope you manage to enjoy their stay and don't get too frustrated with arrangements!

I think DH needs to send the email prior to them coming. If they think they are staying all inclusive they might not have the funds to contribute.

Did your DH invite them over or did they invite themselves?
Your MIL might be bragging back home about how well off you are and how she never put her hand in her pocket and the assumption is that you guys are going to be covering all expenses, particularly as you are footing rhe bill for accommodation-which is CRAZY IMO.

You should have told them your house is too small, here are a list of hotels/houses and left it to them

I think you (DH) have already set the expectation that its a free holiday.

So, before they come over set the record straight.
Will they hire a car or will you/DH be stuck driving them everywhere?

I understand this scenario . As the "rich Yanks " in the family , my parents were expected to host and pay for visiting relatives. At first , people were grateful but then did take it for granted. On my parents part , they did not expect anyone to be able to afford it all , but as you say , paying a meal occasionally or a grocery shop was appreciated. Nobody likes to be taken for granted , no matter how much money they have .
I once made a point of buying a drink for a wealthy friend while we were out in a pub . He said that it made him feel good as most of the time he paid for every round and nobody ever bought him a drink until then.

you have invited guests then you feed them and entertain them

you say that you are well off but clearly are not if it bothers you

fur coat and no knickers lifestyle?

Yes get basic shop in and take them to supermarket, leave them there and run an errand or wait in car.
If you book a restaurant or host then that is your treat , if they suggest going out again or when you are making plans you could say, ok we will pay for us and mum , sounds nice

I completely get where you’re coming from, and can see how it’s happened and why it grates, but

we are happy to make sure they have a good time including paying for almost everything - it's the gesture of making a meal or re stocking basics like mike and eggs that then goes a long way

this is the worst of all worlds, though. No one knows where they stand, you’re expecting ‘gestures’ and fuming when MIL ‘gestures’ she’ll pay at the supermarket but doesn’t, and so on.

Get a basic shop in for the second house. Tell them they’ll need to factor in a supermarket trip soon after arriving - are they hiring a car? If not, they need to. Tell them clearly what meals they’re invited to when - as part of ‘so you can plan what you need to pick up’ and for the love of god don’t be the ones picking up the bill at restaurants.

A kitty is going to be the worst though - don’t do that. Just be clear which meals you’re catering and when you’re not. And tell them to bring wine or beer or biscuits or whatever if they’re coming over.