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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

New friend pushing boundaries?

56 replies

Definitelymabel · 30/04/2022 08:57

Hi, quick back story.. Single mum with a long-term single dad partner who doesn't live with me (both our choices), 2 children DD5 and DS4.

I've recently become friends with the parents of a girl who my daughter has become close to in reception year.

They seem nice and very friendly and we've been on a few family days out type play dates together, although the last two times it was just the dad, as I've recently learnt the mum suffers with depression so doesn't often have the energy to socialise.

My partner and his kids joined us recently on a beach day, and afterwards he raised some worries he has about the friends dad. He pointed out that twice in the afternoon the dad mentioned having my daughter over for a sleepover, once in front of my DD who got very excited and was begging me to let her (i think she's a bit too young at the minute so had to say no repeatedly).

We were also running late leaving which could have messed with an appointment. As soon as this came up, the friends dad instantly offered to take my 2 kids back to his for an hour or so until after my appointment. As it happened it wasn't needed as we got back to the car on time.

My partner thinks he may have suspicious motives in pushing so hard to get my DD unsupervised, or at the very least he is pushing boundaries which he sees as a red flag.

I'm not so sure and just thought he was a friendly hands on dad type, but maybe I've been a bit charmed?

What's the group feeling on this?

OP posts:

Cakequeen1988 · 30/04/2022 09:01

Oh that’s a tricky one.

I think perhaps to test the water I’d say to the dad next time, I’m not comfortable leaving the kids unsupervised by myself.

then wait

see if he continues to push for sole care. If he does, distance yourself as he isn’t listening to your boundaries. He may just be trying to be nice but mentioning a sleepover in front of the kids without speaking to you first isn’t ok and rather presumptuous at only 4 years old

Frogslegsbigfeet · 30/04/2022 09:03

Is it because he’s a man, I’m assuming so, and he’d not have the same issues if a mum asked. Is he jealous of the man and thinks you’re interested in him so is trying to put you off him, doesn’t like the fact you’ve a male friend?

Original poster

Definitelymabel · 30/04/2022 09:10

Frogslegsbigfeet · 30/04/2022 09:03

That did cross my mind which is one of the reasons I invited my partner and his kids out with us, so he'd see for himself that the friends dad was just a nice normal bloke.

For what it's worth, he's never shown any jealous tendencies and in fact one of his best friends is a woman, so I'm not convinced it's a jealous thing (although not writing it off).

OP posts:

Original poster

Definitelymabel · 30/04/2022 09:13

Cakequeen1988 · 30/04/2022 09:01

Oh that’s a tricky one.

I think perhaps to test the water I’d say to the dad next time, I’m not comfortable leaving the kids unsupervised by myself.

then wait

Thanks, that sounds like a good approach. Mentioning a sleepover without asking kinda annoyed me too, but hard to tell if he is just a bit socially inept or something else!

OP posts:

seensome · 30/04/2022 09:13

I'd think he's just trying to be helpful for your appointment, as for the sleep over, you have your reasons, she's too young so just politely decline.
He sounds like the kind of person that enjoys people and kids around him all the time, if it's too much for you just say. I wouldn't think it's because of bad intentions to get your daughter alone. I think it's a bit strange if your partner to plant that thought.

Quartz2208 · 30/04/2022 09:17

Is the DD an only child? My reading of it is (particularly if that is the case) that if his wife has depression he is conscious of the fact that the environment at home is not necessarily always the happiest and if his DD loves your DD he is trying to make things good for her.

If this is the case I would caution as well because he is trying to make your DD solve an issue that is unfair on her so I would hold off on all of this and simply say your DD isnt ready (which at 5 she may well not be). Because he may well push your boundaries on this (but for the reasons above)

Quartz2208 · 30/04/2022 09:18

And yes it is strange that is where your partner went simply because he is a man.

DenholmElliot · 30/04/2022 09:23

I'm with your partner on this one.

The easiest way for a peodophile to gain access to children is to befriend the parents. Just saying.

Billylilly · 30/04/2022 09:30

I view it as he’s trying to do something to make his daughter happy (perhaps her home life with her unwell mum is bleak), or even to just take the pressure off him having to entertain her.

However, I don’t think your partners concerns are unreasonable and shouldn’t be ignored either. Would someone with bad intentions be so straight to it? Would he not take his time to groom her and you first? Maybe I am overthinking now!

Triffid1 · 30/04/2022 09:35

Yes, befriending parents IS an easy way to target children...

.... but more likely he's just being helpful. And, if his wife has depression, it may well be that like many of us he a) finds it easier to cope qith his dc when there are others around and b) is thinking that if he offers to help you, you might be able to help him at some point.

We have a family like this and we are absolute God sends for each other. And my dh and the dh of the other family are as likely to step up as me and the mum. I fact, because dh has to ask them.quite often to help.him specifically he is especially proactive about offering to help them because he doesn't want it to be one sided.

Original poster

Definitelymabel · 30/04/2022 09:41

Billylilly · 30/04/2022 09:30

I view it as he’s trying to do something to make his daughter happy (perhaps her home life with her unwell mum is bleak), or even to just take the pressure off him having to entertain her.

Haha I feel that. I've been tieing myself in knots over-thinking it.

That's a good point you and another poster made that he may be just trying really hard and pushing the friendship through to improve his daughters home life.

My partner works in a child safeguarding role so I think he often takes the pessemisitic view based on what he comes across at work, hence I'm very willing to listen to him as he is super aware in this area. But I'm also aware he may have a skewed viewpoint due to his work. (sorry if that's a drip feed)

Thanks all who've responded this morning. I think moving forward I'll continue to build the friendship, as I genuinely like both the parents, and my partner also admitted to liking the dad bar the boundary pushing. But I'll keep it strictly parents included for the time being! Have a great weekend ladies 😊

OP posts:

MrsWateringcan · 30/04/2022 09:43

Crass generalisation alert but I find that even decent blokes are usually utterly blind to red flags of this nature, and are more likely to take men at face value and not see any sort of dodginess/ dismiss concerns raised by women as paranoia/ mustn't jump to conclusions and he's just a nice bloke etc.

Therefore the fact that on a first meeting your DP is saying this would make me think this man is someone to keep an eye on.

As an aside, do kids really have sleepovers at that age? Ours didn't until they were 8/9ish at least.

DatingDinosaur · 30/04/2022 09:44

Please ask your partner a little more about what makes him say he doesn’t trust the other dad’s motives towards your young daughters – was it some sort of body language, facial expression, tone of voice the other dad has displayed towards your daughters that he’s observed, combined with the pushiness that pinged up the red flag for him?

I would also be wary of any man who was “pushy” about unsupervised contact with a young girl.

WTF475878237NC · 30/04/2022 09:44

I'm with your partner on this. I would do as suggested above and see how he reacts.

No harm in being cautious. Being helpful is a common tactic and why most perpetrators are known to the family and have repeated access to the child.

MrsWateringcan · 30/04/2022 09:45

Sorry , cross posted with you there OP.

PenelopeLively · 30/04/2022 09:47

I think no matter what the intentions and male or female if you don’t know someone that well then this is fair.

ChaToilLeam · 30/04/2022 09:48

I’d keep my eyes open for any further pushing of boundaries.

Swayingpalmtrees · 30/04/2022 10:05

All the fathers I have ever known including the ones in sole charge etc have always been extremely careful and mindful around my dds and others, and have purposefully not invited the girls for sleepovers etc, and kept their involvement purely at arms length. Friendly but not overly involved.

I would listen to your partner on this.

I had an horrific experience with a friends Dad at 11 years old on my first sleepover, I can not stress enough not to take the risk. Even the smallest inkling of doubt or question about safety then keep your child away, and see them when you are there to supervise only.

Swayingpalmtrees · 30/04/2022 10:06

Your ex partner apologies.

Whenthegoatcomesin · 30/04/2022 10:08

I’m not into sleepovers generally - that’s easily avoided at their age anyway. But if a friend was saying they were struggling for appointment etc, not only would I say I could have the kids for a bit but I’d feel like they were expecting me to offer.

phizog · 30/04/2022 10:27

Please don't just dismiss your partner's viewpoint just because he is in child safeguarding and may be suspicious generally. He is more trained to look for unsafe situations than you. Your partner picked up on his pushing boundaries and tbh any kind of persistence around your daughter should be viewed as an amber flag.

You don't know this man and his family well at all. If he was just a single dad with no wife at home and kept pushing to have solitary time with your daughter - would you be as willing? Because his wife is likely not very present at home anyway and you don't know very much about this family at all. He may well be just someone helping for a favour - but if he isn't, the effects on your daughter are immense.

Even if this was a woman, you should always always be careful of people you don't know too well wanting unsupervised solitary time with your children and being insistent even when you say no.

It's always better to be cautious than not.

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 30/04/2022 10:30

Im with your partner on this one. Decent men are aware enough to not push for unsupervised contact with a young girl when you hardly know them. That this person does not is concerning. I would be making a point to never allow that to happen with this person.

jeaux90 · 30/04/2022 10:32

Statistically men commit 98% of sex based crimes. So yes you are right to be cautious.

It maybe he's just a nice bloke but until you are sure don't take any chances.

Original poster

Definitelymabel · 30/04/2022 10:33

DatingDinosaur · 30/04/2022 09:44

I would also be wary of any man who was “pushy” about unsupervised contact with a young girl.

I did ask him to clarify his concerns. He specifically said he didn't get any 'saville' vibes (his words) from him, but he was unhappy with how he seemed to be pushing boundaries to get unsupervised contact. Particularly mentioning a sleepover in front of my dd.

As a single dad of older daughters himself, he is used to navigating playdates and so on, and he said he would never ever push as hard or as soon as he feels DDs friends dad is.

Sorry for your experience Swayingpalmtrees 💐 I won't be allowing sleepovers for at least another 3 or 4 years, and only when I'm entirely comfortable with the other parents.

OP posts:

clairemaddox · 30/04/2022 10:45

Similar thread yesterday and it was suggested a few times that men know men which is why they're more cautious.

To be honest I'd err on the side of caution towards safeguarding my daughter, and I'd do this above all else; above losing friends, above looking foolish, above being rude etc.

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