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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Fed up of constant power struggle and bickering?

141 replies

mummyrocks1 · 23/04/2022 18:01

How do DH and I solve this? We seen to never see eye to eye on anything and I feel very worn down by it all. I find him petty, immature and lazy.

Our arguments are so petty its ridiculous but he can't seem to stop or help himself. Egs we have a rare night out. I drive and he needs to give a running commentary on my driving, I am too close, watch out, shouldn't have changed lane etc. why did I park there, I should park there, too far away etc. I admit I argue back all it becomes a petty argument. But I have asked him a million times to just shut up about it. He might not agree with my driving but just keep quiet. He can't so in the end I get angry and ask him if that was worth it ruining our night out over it? By the time we are there I feel any time we spend together we argue and don't want to spend time with him.

Today I thought I must try and be more chilled and not answer back. So over dinner I say to dc we need to look online for some simmer shorts for a 4 week holiday we have coming up. I don't think the 3/4 pairs is enough. DH interrupted saying he does think it's enough. I didn't answer trying to not retaliate. He raises his voice looking at me and says yes! I gently disagree. He shouts that he's got enough shorts, his opinion doesn't count etc. I say is this really worth arguing about in front of the dcs? I sort everything to do with the dcs and think he's wrong. He continues to argue.

This is the kind of arguments we have everyday. I am tired of it and don't want this for the next 40 years, we are early 40s. I know it's ultimately not about the shorts it's because he feels I take over all decisions, I don't follow what he wants. I don't think this is the case. The trouble is when you disagree on so much down to how many bloody pairs of shorts dc has then someone's point of view has to be followed. It's so exhausting. I don't see how we can solve this but I ve had enough.

OP posts:
mummyrocks1 · 03/05/2022 11:42

Things have continued to deteriorate. I have asked DH to move out for a month. He's reluctant and I think he's worried he won't be coming back. We are going to continue our counselling whilst we are apart.

I made the mistake of telling him a few things the counsellor said. He got defensive saying he feels she's on my side. He's got a black mark against his name etc. nothing about how sorry he is, how I am feeling. He did say he doesn't think he does it on purpose. All about sides. It's so petty. I can't keep having petty arguments.

I am finding as we are both working from home I have no space. It's a cycle of arguing/ heart to hearts, work, kids, bed, same again. I have no time to process my thoughts, to think what I want. My thoughts are so confused, my head is over loaded. I am struggling to function. We see things from such different perspectives it's like we have had two different arguments/discussions. My thoughts are so jumbled as to who is right/ wrong, if anyone. If I am being too demanding/a doormat. I don't know anymore.

Unfortunately I don't think I will miss him. We don't make each other happy as we are. I am
Not sure counselling will even work. Should two people have to change so much in order for it to work. Can they?

I am was unsure of my decision but each day I feel surer it's the right thing. He wanted a hug in bed the other day. I didn't want one, I am not there emotionally. He complained about ho he's not going to get sex now for months.

We went out on bank holiday Monday. Apparently me telling him we need a leave at a certain time is rushing him, it's dictating to him. We don't need to rush etc.

When I asked him to move out one of his reactions was why should the man have to move out, it's sexist. Why should he be in some rubbish flat. Nothing about how I am
Feeling. Nothing about the dc, how or what we will tell them.

It feels me, me, me. I am just worn down by it. Each day things like this made me feel like it's the right thing..

OP posts:
Triffid1 · 03/05/2022 11:58

OP, I'm sorry it's so hard but you are doing the right thing in prioritising how YOU feel. SOOO many things jumped out at me from your post.

He's reluctant and I think he's worried he won't be coming back.

Yes, because deep down he's fully aware that your life will be better without him. HIS won't though, that's why he's resistant.

He did say he doesn't think he does it on purpose.

This is a classic one. It doesn't matter why someone does something. the example I always use in these situations with my children is that if I hurt someone because I make a mistake while driving my car, I am still responsible. It is therefore my job to make sure I don't make driving mistakes.

He wanted a hug in bed the other day. I didn't want one, I am not there emotionally. He complained about ho he's not going to get sex now for months.

Ick

We went out on bank holiday Monday. Apparently me telling him we need a leave at a certain time is rushing him, it's dictating to him.

Another classic DARVO move here. A perfectly reasonable request (based, one assumes, on his inability or unwillingness to even think about what needs doing) is turned into YOU being a bad guy

When I asked him to move out one of his reactions was why should the man have to move out, it's sexist.

You could try asking him if he wants to stay in the house and take on the lion’s share of the childcare? I’m guessing not.

mummyrocks1 · 03/05/2022 13:12

Yes. I then explained to him why I had reasoned it's better I stay. I do the most childcare, less disruptive for the dcs, easier to say he has to work away, able to keep it a secret more- I am not ready to tell people. He always sees the worse in me. Like I have done it to spite him, I want it all whilst he lives alone in a horrible place. He doesn't think of others before himself. It's all his wants/needs. Him being alone in a flat etc. petty- what's fair/what's not. Not thinking about the dcs, which is my automatic default.

The way he talks about money makes me think it could get nasty. He's going for 50:50 of our shares (all my inheritance basically). Again, not thinking about the fact he has much more earning potential than me, I will likely have the dcs most of the time, the running costs of our house will probably be more, that was money we haven't touched as was going to be for the dc. It's like all that matters to him is what is fair, who is right/wrong. His automatic reaction is to go on the defensive rather than to think things through about other people.

OP posts:
Pixiedust1234 · 03/05/2022 13:25

Keep reading your own messages as he will try to get back with you. If you don't want this life any more then stay strong Flowers

Triffid1 · 03/05/2022 13:44

@mummyrocks1 you are currently in a headspace where you want him to admit and acknowledge his behaviour. Or, at the very least, you want to understand his behaviour.

The reality is that you are very unlikely to ever get to that point. You need to work on reaching the acceptance stage. I fully understand that is hard. But people like this do not ever admit responsibility or change their reactions to things.

I have no knowledge of splits of assets etc so would strongly advise getting a solicitor asap.

LetitiaLeghorn · 03/05/2022 14:10

I have some sympathy with him over the counsellor. If they are seeing you both, they shouldn't be passing comments on one person to another. I think that's unprofessional. How can he feel safe enough to trust and be open with her if he thinks she's already judged him and she's going to tattletale to you?
I've had therapy and if I thought that someone who I was at odds with had already discussed me with my therapist who'd then criticised me uo them, I would be very defensive when I saw them and would be guarded which would make it a pointless exercise.

BreakinbadBreakineven · 03/05/2022 14:19

OP my partner is just like this, and I am leaving him too. EVERYTHING is a battle, a power struggle, can't ask him to clear up after himself or I'm controlling, can't continue to voice my opinion if it differs from him in any way or I'm 'trying to force my way of doing things'. He also, like your husband, sees any contrasting opinion as a manipulative attempt against him, so me stating I dont think 50:50 is appropriate at the moment for our 20 month DD who is incredibly clingy towards me is me twisting things to get my own way, of course he would never believe I genuinely care for our daughters wellbeing, because I'm such a vile person..I understand how you feel with your H behaviour, and from my own experience you will feel so much clearer headed once he is gone and will be able to build the strength to keep him out for good. I don't believe men like this change, they merely pretend to to get you back under control before exhibiting the same behaviour, often worse.

billy1966 · 03/05/2022 15:26

Get legal advice re your inheritance.

He sounds like such a horror of a man, a house terrorist, grinding you down.

He is emotionally abusing you and your children.

Stop trying to fix a man who doesn't give a damn about you or your children.

Focus on protecting yourself and them.

Get legal advice and get him out.

Fireflygal · 03/05/2022 17:08

Op, dial down the separation conversations with him until you get advice and can prepare. I didn't assumed and it cost me dearly.

I wish I had my exit plan in place before separating as whilst I was dealing with childcare, work etc post split he was linking up the best legal team. If a spouse has a victim mentality they take that attitude into divorce. They genuinely believe they are the weaker partner (he will see counsellors comments as proof the system is loaded against him) so fight hard. There is also an element of punishing you for leaving.

mummyrocks1 · 03/05/2022 18:59

Triffid1 · 03/05/2022 13:44

@mummyrocks1 you are currently in a headspace where you want him to admit and acknowledge his behaviour. Or, at the very least, you want to understand his behaviour.

The reality is that you are very unlikely to ever get to that point. You need to work on reaching the acceptance stage. I fully understand that is hard. But people like this do not ever admit responsibility or change their reactions to things.

I have no knowledge of splits of assets etc so would strongly advise getting a solicitor asap.

I want him to change his behaviour. I want us to rub along ok. Yes - I don't think people get into their 40s and are able to change their natural reactions or thought processes. Should they have to anyway when they are so far a part from the other person? I am not perfect either. I have definitely played my part too. But we just don't make each other happy or understand and give each other what we need.

I want to have this time a part to see if I can be happier apart.

OP posts:
mummyrocks1 · 03/05/2022 19:01

billy1966 · 03/05/2022 15:26

Get legal advice re your inheritance.

He sounds like such a horror of a man, a house terrorist, grinding you down.

He is emotionally abusing you and your children.

Stop trying to fix a man who doesn't give a damn about you or your children.

Focus on protecting yourself and them.

Get legal advice and get him out.

He's not a horror of a man. He's not a bad man. He's just selfish and petty and rather immature. He just puts his self first and I think needs an element of control.

OP posts:
DrBrennerFan · 03/05/2022 20:11

It’s horse racing now all day on the tv if I see another race I swear to god I’ll scream no I won’t I’ll just think of plans coming together slowly slowly catch a monkey.

MakingProgress2022 · 03/05/2022 21:17

Op, I know it’s hard to see the wood from the trees right now. The realisation is a slow process, and it’s really one that can only happen with distance between you.

you’ve done the right thing by asking him to move out. Try to minimise contact if you can, to give yourself headspace. Try also to close your ears - I know how hard this is - to him being the victim, forced to leave his home etc.

It’s his behaviour that has brought things to this point but, as pp says, he will never see it. So trying to make the point is just a waste of energy.

what matters is how you feel day to day. Do you feel relieved or easier when he’s not there? Or at least does it reduce the pressure?

gradually things will become clearer, over time, and you’ll start to feel your way towards the right choices for you. You can’t rush it. Just take it hour by hour, day by day. Now I feel okay. Now I feel bad. Now I feel relief. And so on. There’s a whole mix of emotions in there.

it would be really good though to get counselling just for you. Is that possible?

and keep posting.

MakingProgress2022 · 03/05/2022 21:18

And if you get the chance, the Debbie Miriam book I recommended upthread will probably be pretty enlightening.

MakingProgress2022 · 03/05/2022 21:22

Debbie Mirza!

anya172 · 03/05/2022 21:27

This sounds truly exhausting and horrible. Few people have suggested couples counseling, but do you think you can manage to "share the decisions", so he will have the final say on some things and you would on others, if you think he thinks he is left out? Good luck

youvegottenminuteslynn · 04/05/2022 00:09

He's not a bad man. He's just selfish and petty and rather immature. He just puts his self first and I think needs an element of control.

That is a description of a bad man tbh.

This relationship sounds fucking exhausting.

Definitely in the kids best interest for you two to end the relationship.

Focus on that and the fact they can have a calm, kind and healthy household now.

You can both focus on co-parenting healthily as a separated couple now Flowers

Onthedunes · 04/05/2022 03:20

@mummyrocks1

Has your h been married before? You mentioned a ss, is that his son from a previous marrige.

Well you've had some excellent advice on here and I hope you are beggining to feel more confident that you are not the abuser, a question that must have entered your head as does with most people who are being abused and bullied.

You are being provoked and unfortunately now that you are seeing the truth, he is going to become worse. By worse I mean more strategic.

I think @Fireflygal is right he has the charming qualities of a covert narc, loved by everyone and then saves his real self for you. You must be exhausted and probably ill, I bet you even tell him you're ill just so he leaves you alone with the constant demands. He's a user and he's getting his monies worth, isn't he.

Look, you're never going to get anything right because he's devaluing you, all part of the process of control and he knows exactly what he is doing, mark my words. He is no fool, but he believes you are, and he will not like the realisation of your own abuse.

One step ahead, in fact many, just like a game of chess this man is thinking all the time of his next move, you were made to think this was a partnership, a team, not so, he was always pulling the strings.

You want him to understand and change, not possible, why would he change, he likes it just as it is, you would be rediculous to think he wants any kind of fairness. There you are doing all of the planning, thinking, worrying, and sorting whist he breazily walks in and with one small comment or look has you forgeting what you have exhaustedly done and on the backfoot again needing to please him, to keep the peace.
What a good wife you are, but he'll never let you know that, because for you to be told that would mean you could relax and that would never do. Even repairing the marriage will be up to you, but he's playing you, he has no intention of repairing, this councelling and offering to move out is just a performance to others, another tactic for him being the reasonabe one and you the demanding one.

You just fell into another trap.

My advice, grey rock him, don't engage, treat him as a stranger, imagine he is an aqauintance, be polite, but do not bite.
Tell him nothing about your discussions with others, including the councillor, find out your financial rights, talk to WA, read and educate yourself about covert narcs (try HG Tudor). He will use the children to scapegoat you, he will also have his smear campaigne ready, all the tools the controller uses, he sounds textbook, this must seem dramatic but he is exactly displaying all the signs of a progresive abuser at this point in your relationship and it will not get better, the screws become tighter. The only options are completely submit or escape.

Each step of the way if you try to escape his control, he will have a counter measure, this will not be easy, and at first he will wrap it up as though he cares for you, he doesn't, he cares only for himself, he is selfish. As you further loosen ties you will then start to see the mask slip further and his real self emerge, it won't be pretty and he may go next level and start to scare you into control.

I'm pleased you are here, the ladies here know what will come next if you are ready, there is no rush, just absorb some of the advice as a pp said let it sink in but in the meantime just remember...

He knows exactly what he is doing.
Now is that a very kind man ? He's not the innocent you think he is.

Bonster37 · 04/05/2022 06:34

I know you have said you have had
many conversations about this but have you told him straight up that if things don’t improve you would leave him? Some men need it spelt out for them.

flipper97 · 04/05/2022 07:24

Keep going OP. I am in a very similar position - asked for a separation a year ago and am still in the same house being subjected to what I have named The Programme of Punishment.

Mine’s a grandiose narcissist. Google grey rock - it works on these people but be careful not to do it ALL of the time as they will clock it. So have the occasional flip-out (frankly it’s impossible not too). Also it’s OK too say he has good, even amazing qualities! Mine has too. Just at a distance and for someone else now.

mummyrocks1 · 04/05/2022 09:06

Bonster37 · 04/05/2022 06:34

I know you have said you have had
many conversations about this but have you told him straight up that if things don’t improve you would leave him? Some men need it spelt out for them.

Yes he knows. I just don't see either us being able to change that much anyway. We all have a certain way of thinking, a natural mindset. It has got very petty with both of us having resentment from years ago which has then spiralled and been build up again and again. I don't think people should have to change their whole being? It's not a matter of communicating more, or being more attentive, helpful etc. I don't think he's naturally tuned to put others first, to let go and not have control.

There's no connection, no affection and I am unsure if there is any live there anymore.

OP posts:
Triffid1 · 04/05/2022 09:35

He's not a horror of a man. He's not a bad man. He's just selfish and petty and rather immature. He just puts his self first and I think needs an element of control.

Oh OP, this breaks my heart because this is almost word for word what SIL says about BIL. As a result, she still feels responsible for him, feels sorry for him and keeps waiting for him to change. But he won't. he can't. And he doesn't want to. Being the victim works for him because it gets him out of taking responsibility or having to DO anything.

You're not in a position yet to fully understand that. I get it. But he IS a bad person. For a start, no GOOD person wouldn't be doing everything they can to help and improve the lives of their children.

IfNoTwitterThenWhat · 04/05/2022 10:00

I'm so sorry OP, please keep talking. I'm in your shoes too, I've had a therapist tell me my partner is abusive, friends and MN! But I keep thinking maybe I'm exaggerating it. When things go well again it's all fine.. until the next time. It's not right to feel nervous when his key is in the door, when you forget something simple from the shops. To back down on normal every day conflict because you're afraid where it will go. To have the kids loudly change subject in the back of the car because they can hear what's going on.
Other people don't live like that. x

Triffid1 · 04/05/2022 10:58

IfNoTwitterThenWhat · 04/05/2022 10:00

I'm so sorry OP, please keep talking. I'm in your shoes too, I've had a therapist tell me my partner is abusive, friends and MN! But I keep thinking maybe I'm exaggerating it. When things go well again it's all fine.. until the next time. It's not right to feel nervous when his key is in the door, when you forget something simple from the shops. To back down on normal every day conflict because you're afraid where it will go. To have the kids loudly change subject in the back of the car because they can hear what's going on.
Other people don't live like that. x

I am deeply deeply sympathetic to your situation.

And also want to SCREAM at you. You KNOW this isn't okay. The children know it isn't okay. Why are you continuing to put up with it? All that will happen is you will become more and more isolated as your friends and family find they can no longer continue to support you. Which is actually exactly what he wants.

mummyrocks1 · 04/05/2022 13:03

IfNoTwitterThenWhat · 04/05/2022 10:00

I'm so sorry OP, please keep talking. I'm in your shoes too, I've had a therapist tell me my partner is abusive, friends and MN! But I keep thinking maybe I'm exaggerating it. When things go well again it's all fine.. until the next time. It's not right to feel nervous when his key is in the door, when you forget something simple from the shops. To back down on normal every day conflict because you're afraid where it will go. To have the kids loudly change subject in the back of the car because they can hear what's going on.
Other people don't live like that. x

I hope you manage to find happier times.

My DH isn't as bad as this but I do change my behaviour yes. But doesn't everyone in a relationship? I don't feel I can just sit and chill during the day or comments will be made. So I spring up and look busy when he comes in.

I have stopped bringing up or answering back about things I don't agree with, when he accuses me of things.

I don't go to the gym as I don't have time and he won't do the school run so I can go. Apparently I should work all evenings to make up the gym time if I go during the day.

I ask him to be quiet about my driving before I give him a lift anywhere.

I don't tell him things I have brought for the dc or me so he doesn't get cross.

I bend over backwards to compromise. Putting myself at a disadvantage.

I don't ask him to do things or favours for me as I know he will be cross or won't have time.

OP posts:
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