My husband loves someone else as well as me

[Sazdun]

Bit of a long winded one but all my close friends are also friends of his or wives of his friends so have no one to turn to.
My husband and I have been married for 8 years and together for 15. We have two girls (5 years and 10 months) and life is pretty much perfect. Yet despite all this I have found out he is in love with someone else. I know he loves me too but having seen how he behaved last weekend I am now all over the place and feel shattered.
Back in 2013 a new girl joined his work and from the get go it was clear there was a mutal attraction there (I don't think anything aside from some slight flirting has ever occured) but she also moved very near to us and as a result my husband (fiance at the time) and her would share lifts, walk to work together etc and grew close. Since they both met she has also been with her partner too. This is why I don't believe anything has ever occurred between them.
Over the years my husband and her have been on work trips together, hung out together and we as a couple have socialised with her.
To be honest, current issue aside, I see what my husband likes about her, she is pretty and very kind. Over the years she has made a real effort to include me, give gifts to our kids, help us out but if I am honest deep down it has always left a bit of a nagging feeling that this is all just an attempt to seem great to my husband. I know this makes me sound paranoid but otherwise she would just be too bloody perfect.
In return my husband seems to make an effort in his friendship with her even though he is not an overtly sociable guy. They message each other fairly regularly despite working together and while the message are all above board (I've checked), he doesn't behave like this with any other women.
After a night out when people mistook her for his wife and his friends were teasing me about 'the other woman', we had an argument about her and candidly spoke to him about her. He said he doesn't know what it is about her but he likes her and cares for her and is someone he would like in his life. While that made me slightly uncomfortable and I don't really know what to make of that, at the same time I want my husband to have friends who he cares about who are a range of different people. It has meant Over the past three years I have stepped up to be a friend to her too, I thought that might guarantee there is less chance she might overstep the mark and do anything. As I have got to know her I can see she cares deeply for my husband but that she also values the friendship I have with her too. I also think she is quite lonely and insecure. Personally I think she can do better than the guy she is with and I can see why someone like my husband is the type of person in an ideal world she would be with however in this world he is my husband.
Anyway last weekend we were at her wedding and my husband's reaction to her freaked me out and brought everything that has been under the surface for the past 8 years to a head. As she walked down the aisle he couldn't take his eyes of her. He even said to me she looked stunning (he isn't the type of guy to normally talk about people like that) and at a point in the ceremony he looked about ready to cry (he didn't even look at me like that at our own wedding). Later at the reception when my husband and her danced together they looked perfect together and so happy to be dancing together. I honestly felt like I had been punched in the gut. We left not long after as I said I didn't feel well. When we got home the next day I spoke to him about how I felt and asked him if he loved her. He said that he ofcourse loved me but there was a part of him that did love her but he didn't know in what way and he has felt like that for years but would never do anything to hurt me and our girls. When I asked him if he wanted to be with her, he said there was no point discussing that, however now I can't get it out my head. He has known her since before we got married, he could have broken it off with me and got with her if he wanted and I feel she would have been happy to go with him but now I feel like she will always be the perfect one who got away to him and I will never be able to view their relationship as an innocent friendship.
I don't know what to do. She has invited us round for dinner next weekend but I can't even face seeing her and I now feel like my husband doesn't truly love me or that our life is the one he truly wants and I feel heartbroken.
Any advice on what to do would be great.

When they first met and he was curious what it would be like to be with her, was aware she felt the same and was enjoying the attention - that’s the point when he should have distanced himself. Instead he built an emotionally intimate relationship with her and pulled you into it by socialising together but was never honest with you about what was happening.

He’s been so disloyal to you becoming enmeshed with another woman, one he admits he’d like to date if he had the chance.This isn’t normal. Would you consider counselling? It might help to have a third party to talk it through with.

@Tigofigo

That's a lot of words about a woman who isn't you

My thoughts exactly

He's written the world's longest text and it's pretty much all about her - and him.

Not only is that lacking massive self awareness, it also shows what's on his mind and what he sees as important.

What about YOUR feelings?

Exactly. He needs to shut the fuck up and listen to you about how you feel and respect it and prioritise you. None of this teenage hand wringing shite. He already picked you. He has commitments. He needs to take a hard look at himself. God I'm angry for you even if you're not (but then I'm full of menopausal hormones which make me much less forgiving these days!)

However I have a friend I care a great deal about and seeing her get married made me feel things I didn't expect to feel and I still don't understand why I felt that way or what it means

I can tell him exactly what it means.

Watching her get married was absolute confirmation that she doesn’t feel about him the way he does about her. Her wedding was the nail in the coffin for his fantasy alternative life with her and what he’s feeling now is grief for that whole fantasy.

My question is...what steps is he taking to prove that he only wants to he with you and won't leave the minute she files fir divorce? Going NC with the friend? Changing jobs? Looked into individual and couples counceling? Organising a babysitter so you can have good talk and organise a date night to reconnect (or something other similar crap)?

Thus far it seems that since he claims nothing has physically happened it's all good.

If you're staying together then he has to cut all contact and look for another job. For his own sake as well as yours.

But seriously - how likely would he be understanding of you having a relationship (of any type really) of this kind of emotional intensity with another man?

Is this a wind up? If not you need to fuck this embarrassing simp right off.

My reply to a message like that….
Thanks very much for giving me chapter and verse and how YOU feel and about how SHE feels. Where the ACTUAL FUCK is how I FEEL in all that drivel? What about ME?? And the effect this is all having on our children? As you well know, I have been uncomfortable about your relationship with her for years, for exactly this reason. I am no longer prepared to sacrifice my own happiness for yours, so it is time for you to make a choice, one way or another. Your behaviour is not ok and I will accept it no longer. You seem oblivious to the fact that you have put a bomb under my life, one I have watched ticking for many years and it has now exploded. You either cut her off and we go to counselling, both individually and together, or I’m out”.

So he met someone he was attracted to. And that he got on relat with. And that he would have been with if she had been single. And he actively chose to get closer to her

He keeps saying it's a friendship, one of the guys etc but does he 'not know how he feels' about any guys? Talk to guys about 'what ifs'? Cry at their wedding? Of course not.

It's way more than a friendship and once that line is crossed into emotional affair, it can't be un crossed.

How would he feel, truly, if it was the other way around. I'd ask him honestly what he would want you to do about it ans what he thinks is the right thing to do here.

There are only two choices here for you once you've spoken to him if he doesnt say he knows he has to distance himself. Accept that as nothing physical has happened, that he doesn't see it as an affair and you accept he will see her constantly

Or tell him it's over. I'm not sure ultimatums in this case will make a difference, if he doesn't honestly believe he is doing anything wrong then he will see you as being controlling and see her behind your back anyway since he has so much opportunity

I'm so sorry

OP, your update made me so sad, for so many reasons.

One part of your husband's text really rung a bell. The bit about the two month whirlwind romance, or whatever. I went back through my screenshots. I've never shown anyone this, for obvious reasons. And it's heavily redacted. But here's my twat of a BF's heartfelt message to the OW:-

I was meant to add to my above comment that love is a choice. He is choosing to be with her in a way that feeds the love and attraction. He could have stepped away at any point in the 9 years. He chose not to. If he is willing to put thw work in, I do think you can overcome this as a couple if you want to. But he needs to do the work.

I think you should have couples counselling together.

But honestly, he's probably going to have to choose. An important friendship, or you.

Oh fuck. Too blurry. Hang on.

Jesus. What a pile of self absorbed twaddle to n that text. He has gone to her previously to confide in her when he's had a tiff with you. He's tried to bring her in as a second wife figure almost and give her prominence. Why can't he say this stuff to you face?. This... "she has said she would never want you to view our friendship in the same way and I think that is why she has went out of her way to spoil us at times and give you and the girls gifts over me, to show that she sees us as a family, as a couple". So, this woman was patronisingly giving you and your kids presents to get you off the case.
If she saw you two as a couple she'd back the eff off.

Does her husband share her vision of all this? What would her husband think if he read your DHs text?

im sorry op you are in a lot of upset and turmoil and its your marraige ultimaltly and only you can decide what you want to do .

the text i think does not really clear things much , whilst he says how much he loves you , the rest is all about her and his feelings ,

if you arent pissed off by the fact that hes pushing you and her to be friends , all this stuff about how much alike you are , how she takes your side ect , then i am , sorry but it just makes it all the more convienient to keep her in his life whilst hes cosying you both up to be besties .
he shouldnt be getting to pressure you into being friends with her for what essentially is his sake , all hes doing is wringing you over just that bit more .
you are feeling bruised and fragile , its expected that you might not be at the angry stage , but if and when it comes act on it

@LetHimHaveIt

'It wouldn't be for me but then lots of ways of living wouldn't be.'

Including a way whereby you don't fuck someone else's husband, evidently.

That was quite the humblebrag disguised as a helpful message to the OP 🙄

I was trying to contribute something from the other side as it were and my insights from the thinking and actions of a man who sounds very like the OP's husband - his text confirms the similarities. I think as others have pointed out, the OP's husband sounds a bit wet and a bit naive in thinking he could continue as he was. And he is flummoxed now that it's out in the open precisely because he didn't put too much thought into the logical consequences of what he was doing, the fire he was playing with. This is not someone plotting and planning anything I don't think, who is probably quite passive about his own emotional life and who now finds himself maybe losing both these women he feels he loves. I think more kicking the can down the road will happen - the text is of that nature - but if I were you OP, I would get out in front of this. Exactly what that looks like I don't know. It could be an ultimatum (but don't make one unless prepared to act on it), a trial seperation, a full seperation....But unlike many others, I actually can see why you love him and want to make it work and I think at face value, there is much of worth in that text.

I'll just cut and paste the relevant bits:-

'I care about you so much and I'm not
gonna lose you. I've told you so many times your friendship means more to me than anything and that doesn't change with or without sex. We are both in very difficult situations regarding our families and they have to come first, who know what might have happened in a different time and place, I personally think we could have been great together but, we both know, here and now, circumstances are against us.'

And later:-

We could have had a whirlwind romance
that ended after we started arguing and moaning at each other 6 months down the line anyway, we just don't know. This way may not be as much as we both want and I've loved sharing intimacy with you, but I can 100% guarantee you that you absolutely have a friend for life in me, if you want it.'

That read like a love poem to her. Lots of words about how wonderful she is, how important their friendship is. How she feels. How he feels. Not much about how this is affecting you is there. Yes he states his undying love for you. That may or may not be true. Even if it's true, it doesn't make the other stuff OK. She clearly deserves a lot more of his words than you do.

This is good advice:

My reply to a message like that….
Thanks very much for giving me chapter and verse and how YOU feel and about how SHE feels. Where the ACTUAL FUCK is how I FEEL in all that drivel? What about ME?? And the effect this is all having on our children? As you well know, I have been uncomfortable about your relationship with her for years, for exactly this reason. I am no longer prepared to sacrifice my own happiness for yours, so it is time for you to make a choice, one way or another. Your behaviour is not ok and I will accept it no longer. You seem oblivious to the fact that you have put a bomb under my life, one I have watched ticking for many years and it has now exploded. You either cut her off and we go to counselling, both individually and together, or I’m out”.

@Honeyroar

He might be being honest, but he is being incredibly selfish and cruel. I think you need to talk to him again. If he says there’s no point discussing it tell him you need to know so you can decide whether you stay with him or not. Tell him he has to stop this now, step away, because it’s destroying his marriage and family. Tell him you’re really hurting and have been for a while. Tell him you don’t want your children growing up thinking this is a normal relationship, with one person idolising someone else. Tell him you’ve tried being friends with her too etc, but it’s just hurting you. Tell him if he loves and cares for you he has to step away, because this is breaking point.

I must have been typing this when you updated.

I don’t know what I’d think of that latest message either. It does sound like it’s only ever been a friendship, but it’s taking too much of his headspace and is right on the boundary. The only sensible, decent thing he can do is step right back from the friendship- no going round for meals, no giving his arm on nights out (probably best avoiding those nights out), just staying friendly at work, but not seeking them out for chats etc. It might sound dramatic, but he has seriously rocked his married and needs to put his everything into fixing it. Things just can’t carry on as they are. It’s too much to expect.

Maybe you should screen shot all the messages from him to you and send them to his “friend” and her new husband
And ask then what they make of it all

Then kick him the fuck out !!

No doubt the new husband will not be impressed with this “friendship” and your dh will get what he deserve no one

He doesn't love you, he doesn't love her either. He's in love with the thrill of a forbidden relationship and won't change.
He's been having an emotional affair for years and if he really loved you he wouldn't have formed a close friendship with this woman. I know you said you don't want to leave him but if you stay with him you'll only be hurt more.
You deserve so much better

'I was trying to contribute something from the other side as it were and my insights from the thinking and actions of a man who sounds very like the OP's husband - his text confirms the similarities.'

But you're coming from the perspective of the husband. You're coming from the perspective of the husband's side-piece - you're the woman for whom his feelings were so strong, that he just couldn't 'put them back in the bottle.' You must be amazing. And just much, much better than the 'difficult' wife.

Yep. SUPER-helpful perspective.

@theleafandnotthetree I think that is a very sensible post.

@ThanksItHasPockets has it right I think. He was upset seeing her get married because now that part of his fantasy is over and she’s no longer ‘available’ as such. He needs to drop all contact with her, that massively long indulgent text is him enjoying talking about her and his feelings but with little interest for you and your feelings.

If I was you I would be thinking about getting away from him. What if she crooks her finger at him in the future, will he come running so he can live out his fantasy? Do you want to live with that worry and suspicion?