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Original poster

Could this work or should I dismiss it as a holiday romance?

89 replies

DanielTigersNeighbourhood · 15/03/2022 18:57

Name changed for obvious reasons Blush

Back story:
STBXH and I split up 18 months ago after a violent 6 year relationship. We share a 2.5yo DC, who he chooses to have little to do with. I've totally rebuilt my life, got my career back on track and am earning well, have a great circle of friends etc. Divorce is in the early stages. Day to day stresses of working a 60hr week parenting a toddler alone whilst a divorce is pending aside, I'm really happy.

My DPs have been visiting an East African country for 15 years + and bought a property out there 5 years ago. I've been out there with them (and STBXH) 6-7 times. They spend 5-6 months of the year out there and have a big social circle consisting of both locals and Europeans.

Around 6 years ago, my DF was introduced to a local professional in his hobby - let's call him A. A spent some time coaching my DF, they made good friends and meet up 2-3 times a week whilst he's out there plus chat on WhatsApp regularly when he's home. I have met A a couple of times at social events and we've always got on really well.

In October, news broke that A and his wife were divorcing. Sounded fairly acrimonious, lockdowns intensified issues they'd previously had. They remain on good terms and co parent their 3yo DS.

I can work fully remotely and last month, went out for 4 weeks with DD to stay with my DPs. I bumped into A whilst out running on my second day and we decided to run together each morning before work. I always thought he was attractive, and we always got on well, but the chemistry between us was like nothing I have experienced before. We both tried to ignore it - he was aware of what I'd experienced and that I didn't want anything with anyone. We ended up spending a good chunk of time together - running, he came for bbqs at ours, a handful of social events, a play date with the kids - and everyone commented on the chemistry between us.

3 days before I was due to leave, we were out running and he stopped and kissed me. I've never ever had "butterflies" before but it felt like a whole swarm of them in my stomach.

I came home and wrote it off as a bit of attention that I enjoyed post STBXH but the reality is, I cannot stop thinking about him. He has made it very clear he'd like more but he understands my situation and is happy to take things at my pace, if at all. He's spoken to my DP's and had the all clear from them, if I did want to press on.

I'm due to go back out early summer (was pre booked) and all I find myself doing is counting down the days until I can see him again.

In terms of age, I'm 29, he's 35. He is Muslim but not devout. Will fast for Ramadan but will also have a cheeky g&t. Appreciates that I'm agnostic (we've had lots of conversations about this). In terms of culture, is totally westernised, grew up with sisters and is a feminist. Earns well above his country's standards but little in UK money however is highly skilled and could earn good money whenever he went.

Considering his tie to my family, I don't believe for a second he is interested in money or a visa - he would have had plenty of opportunity for that with lots of others. In fact, this is something we have joked about.

My main concern is DD. Is it selfish for me to potentially pursue something like this?! We have ties to his country and he has a sister and a cousin close to where I live in the UK.

My dilemma is, could this possibly work/is this worth pursuing or do I write it off as a holiday romance?

OP posts:
QuizzicalEyebrows · 17/03/2022 15:46

I'm all for saying go for it but in this case I'd definitely put it down to a holiday romance which you can rekindle if you see him again but take it no further than that.

QuizzicalEyebrows · 17/03/2022 15:50

For all you know he's been befriending your DF just to get close to you for a visa the whole time. The jogging and the kiss and the WhatsApp with DF etc. I'd be very cautious

NeedleNoodle3 · 17/03/2022 15:54

Holiday romance.

Original poster
DanielTigersNeighbourhood · 17/03/2022 16:07

@QuizzicalEyebrows

For all you know he's been befriending your DF just to get close to you for a visa the whole time. The jogging and the kiss and the WhatsApp with DF etc. I'd be very cautious
Considering he has been good friends with my DF for 6 years, I would think this is a fairly unlikely scenario?

The first time I met him was 5 years ago (and STBXH was also there...)

OP posts:
Coffeencrochet · 17/03/2022 16:58

I understand we have to be careful but I'm a bit shocked at some of the visa comments, particularly one on the last page saying "if he's Muslim then it's one of two things" and then stating he's looking for a visa to support his family!
If someone is so low as to use someone for a visa it's because they're a shit bag, not because of the religion they choose to follow. I apologise for derailing but I needed to get that off of my chest because it's very boring seeing blasé comments made about Muslims like this.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 17/03/2022 17:17

Agree totally
I was going to comment but didn’t Coffeencrochet

I’m white and I’ve noticed the bias and racism too

ChickenStripper · 17/03/2022 21:50

@Coffeencrochet

I understand we have to be careful but I'm a bit shocked at some of the visa comments, particularly one on the last page saying "if he's Muslim then it's one of two things" and then stating he's looking for a visa to support his family! If someone is so low as to use someone for a visa it's because they're a shit bag, not because of the religion they choose to follow. I apologise for derailing but I needed to get that off of my chest because it's very boring seeing blasé comments made about Muslims like this.
The relevance of being Muslim is that it is a religion which also carries huge cultural implications and practices and usually for a woman -especially a Western woman who is used to more freedoms. You are naive if you think this is not relevant.
jessthepostmanscat · 17/03/2022 21:59

@HundredMilesAnHour

He's spoken to my DP's and had the all clear from them, if I did want to press on.

Like other posters, this phrase makes me very uncomfortable. This is a red flag to me.

Agreed. He may be very nice but the difference in culture really becomes apparent once you form a close relationship. A close relative of mine is married to a Muslim man and although she won't come out and say it, we can all tell she regrets it. He does absolutely nothing to help around the house or look after their children, he sees it all as her job. He goes to work then comes home and sits on his phone doing absolutely sod all. Because that's usually what it's like in their culture unfortunately. (I'm not saying it's always the case, but sadly it's very common).
Natty13 · 18/03/2022 11:13

A friend of a friend was in a similar situation but at met him while on holiday in the country she was studying in. They made it work (he didn't have any kids at the time) for about 6 years until they moved to her home country together to be married.

He is also Muslim (Middle Eastern) and it hasn't caused any issues at all in their relationships. He is super open minded and she has literally the same experience as she would dating someone British for example. Maybe having to make the LDR work for so long made them really concretely on the same page about things (for example she always said she wouldn't want to raise her children Muslim but following some things culturally would be fine). They've been married about 4 years now and just had their second child together. So it can and does work. You just obviously have to be sure about the person before committing, which I think a lot of people in non mixed relationships could do with considering themselves Wink

Natty13 · 18/03/2022 11:15

Sorry this really made me laugh out loud. Sounds exactly like 90% of the posts on here about people's ENGLISH husbands!

I'm not British and neither is my DH and I have to say this is exactly how I would describe British men to my friends at home based on every British person I am friends or work with and what they say about their relationships.

Natty13 · 18/03/2022 11:16

Sorry that was for @jessthepostmanscat

Viviennemary · 18/03/2022 11:18

Due to the distance involved this isn't going to work in the long term unless one of you is prepared to uproot and move which seems very risky indeed. But a holiday romance is fine.

thisplaceisweird · 18/03/2022 11:22

@Natty13

Sorry this really made me laugh out loud. Sounds exactly like 90% of the posts on here about people's ENGLISH husbands!

I'm not British and neither is my DH and I have to say this is exactly how I would describe British men to my friends at home based on every British person I am friends or work with and what they say about their relationships.

Agree - being a lazy misogynistic dickhead and being a Muslim are completely separate things! There are plenty of wonderful husbands and plenty of shit husbands, each category has an array of ethnicities and backgrounds. Not a great comment @jessthepostmanscat
thisplaceisweird · 18/03/2022 11:23

Honestly he sounds nice, and of course you got butterflies - a man that you are fond of made a move, made you feel special, after a divorce and years of marriage. Of course you feel enamoured.

The practicalities however may simply not work. Take it slow, enjoy the attention and company but don't get carried away.

thisplaceisweird · 18/03/2022 11:25

@icelolly12

If he's Muslim..either one of two things. He will expect you to convert at some point in the future especially if having children is on the cards. Or he's after a visa and he's justifying marrying you in his head for a better life for himself and his family. Of course there's the chance this is all genuine and if so great, but you've been on a run with him and not much more. Don't rush anything!
RACIST

You can't start a comment with 'if he's muslim...' and then follow up with 2 not very nice accusations based on his race/religion

Just awful!

bluedodecagon · 18/03/2022 11:26

I’m black and born British. My DH is black and African. Moved over a few years ago. Lots of friends who are immigrants and have married across nationalities and races.

He’s looking for a visa and money.

Do the freedom programme. Focus on your traumatised child. You sound extremely naive and you should not be dating!

Original poster
DanielTigersNeighbourhood · 18/03/2022 11:40

@bluedodecagon

I’m black and born British. My DH is black and African. Moved over a few years ago. Lots of friends who are immigrants and have married across nationalities and races.

He’s looking for a visa and money.

Do the freedom programme. Focus on your traumatised child. You sound extremely naive and you should not be dating!

Calling my child traumatised is quite an assumption. I really don't appreciate that. She is a very happy, confident little girl.
OP posts:
RantyAunty · 18/03/2022 11:47

those of you who are white and western, see the world through your own lens. You can't project your views, values, background on to others.

Someone brought up him being Muslim. He also has culture of the country he is from. Many people can be one religion and have differences within that religion. In his country, there will also be different cultures.

You see lying, deceiving, cheating as immoral and wrong.
In other cultures such behaviours are allowed to happen as that culture defines the conditions and principles on which it is acceptable and even desirable.

So put your eurocentric bias away with the "omg you're racist to say those things" because other cultures don't see it that way and to keep on about it shows you think your morals and values are superior to others.

Coffeencrochet · 18/03/2022 12:10

@RantyAunty

those of you who are white and western, see the world through your own lens. You can't project your views, values, background on to others.

Someone brought up him being Muslim. He also has culture of the country he is from. Many people can be one religion and have differences within that religion. In his country, there will also be different cultures.

You see lying, deceiving, cheating as immoral and wrong.
In other cultures such behaviours are allowed to happen as that culture defines the conditions and principles on which it is acceptable and even desirable.

So put your eurocentric bias away with the "omg you're racist to say those things" because other cultures don't see it that way and to keep on about it shows you think your morals and values are superior to others.

I'm not white and funnily enough I still view "lying, deceiving, cheating as immoral and wrong" as wrong too. It is wrong to paint everyone within a religion with the same brush, and the same goes for culture. We live in such a diverse world now where many cultures are enmeshed and younger generations are paving a way for change. There are a minority of people within ALL cultures that have a mindset that is different. To say that someone is Muslim and/or from East Africa and that raising flags for the majority of posters on here that he's only looking out for himself and a visa is very saddening. I also think it's quite rude for people to assume that those calling this racist assume the poster is white, and that they're just looking to get a rise out of the situation. I actually appreciate it when anyone calls out racism/stereotyping irregardless of colour.
icelolly12 · 18/03/2022 12:35

@Coffeencrochet

I understand we have to be careful but I'm a bit shocked at some of the visa comments, particularly one on the last page saying "if he's Muslim then it's one of two things" and then stating he's looking for a visa to support his family! If someone is so low as to use someone for a visa it's because they're a shit bag, not because of the religion they choose to follow. I apologise for derailing but I needed to get that off of my chest because it's very boring seeing blasé comments made about Muslims like this.
Because being a Muslim it is not allowed to marry somebody who is not one of the Abrahamic religions, OP stated she is agnostic. So he must have a motive that is more important than his religion. That was my reasoning for the post.
icelolly12 · 18/03/2022 12:39

@thisplaceisweird Don't shout RACIST at me.

RACIST. You can't start a comment with 'if he's muslim...' and then follow up with 2 not very nice accusations based on his race/religion. Just awful!

I have many Muslim friends, have lived in the Middle East myself so learned from experience.

I'll repeat... being a Muslim it is not allowed to marry somebody who is not one of the Abrahamic religions. Happy for any Muslims to correct me if I am wrong. OP stated she is agnostic. So he must have a motive that is more important than his religion to justify wanting to marry somebody of no faith with a non Muslim child. This is not acceptable to Muslims. That was my reasoning for the post.

thisplaceisweird · 18/03/2022 13:13

@icelolly12 I didn't shout I typed. You are making huge sweeping negative statements based on something because of their religion. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

She said in the post that he's not a hardcore Muslim and chooses not to follow every rule, stop backtracking!

jessthepostmanscat · 18/03/2022 13:22

@Natty13 @thisplaceisweird

Agree - being a lazy misogynistic dickhead and being a Muslim are completely separate things! There are plenty of wonderful husbands and plenty of shit husbands, each category has an array of ethnicities and backgrounds. Not a great comment @jessthepostmanscat**

Sorry, I agree my comment didn't sound great. I didn't mean he's only like that because he's a Muslim - I meant he (my relative's husband) uses his culture as an excuse, as do a lot of his family. Again, I know that doesn't mean all Muslim people are the same (I can only speak for him personally), so I apologise for how that came across. I've not had the best few days so I'm not coming across very well.

jessthepostmanscat · 18/03/2022 13:24

I'll repeat... being a Muslim it is not allowed to marry somebody who is not one of the Abrahamic religions. Happy for any Muslims to correct me if I am wrong. OP stated she is agnostic. So he must have a motive that is more important than his religion to justify wanting to marry somebody of no faith with a non Muslim child. This is not acceptable to Muslims. That was my reasoning for the post

I mean.. the OP did clearly state that he's not a devout Muslim. My close relative has a Muslim husband - his family are a lot more devout than him, and they have no issue with him being married to (and has a child with) someone who is white, British, and not religious in the slightest. So I don't think you're correct in this opinion unfortunately.

AubadeIsIt · 18/03/2022 13:35

@Thingsdogetbetter

You've only known him 4 weeks. He lives in another country. He has a child in the country and you have one in yours. How do you see this panning out? Long distance forever. He moves to your country leaving his dc behind? You support him until he gets residence? You move to his? Despite your ex being uninvolved, do you think he'd allow his dc to be taken to live in another country? Could you permanently work there?
Deadbeat dads who aren't involved shouldn't be allowed to decide if a child moves to another country in potentially great circumstances.
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