Why are men so closed, or emotionless and cut off from their feelings?

[Invitationtoclose88]

This is a generalisation but I think it is fair to say that men in general have more difficulty expressing feelings than women do. Certainly British men who are in their sixties now. I hope things are changing for the better among younger men..

Can I start with a disclaimer that I am not someone who emotes all over the place generally. I try and be reasonable and emotionally continent most of the time and try and understand my husband's pov without squeezing it out of him. I don't cry often. If I show any emotion at all it is anger that flares brightly but then is over very quickly.

My husband on the other hand hardly shows any emotion ever. He is NT , he is not autistic in case anyone is thinking that. He is what I would describe for the sake of giving context, a typical upper middle class English man who speaks with great tenderness and love to his dogs but finds it hard to express emotion to me his wife. He has jokey male friendships and is expansive and funny with colleagues but I wouldn't say he is close to anyone really except me. The friendships he does have he found through me. He does show his love for me in various practical ways and our sex life is fine but I am not English and after 30 years of marriage, I find this all a bit cold as I would like some affection and sense of closeness outside of the bedroom. I rarely raise emotional subjects and he doesn't make me feel silly when I do, he just finds it hard to comprehend what I am trying to say. I guess he is just very independent and self contained. I do love him very much but it's hard to keep loving someone who doesn't seem to need you emotionally.

He only starts conversations with me about benign general subjects such as the news, the food he eats, maybe travel and the odd work problem. He doesn't like talking about emotions or "us". I am a grown up and pragmatic that we are not in the first flush of romance but just occasionally, it would be nice to have a close adult conversation. We joke about things but it's not the same.

I have good female friendships where I can talk about things that are important to me, but I suppose I feel a bit lost at this point in my life. After a lifetime of raising children, I thought my DH and I would grow closer together. I thought he he did need me emotionally but I am no longer sure.

I would like to try and understand why men behave like this, what is behind it, whether I am doing something wrong, if there is a better way of understanding this? Can any men on Mumsnet , as well as women, enlighten me? I have always assumed that the feelings are all there, under the surface, but are difficult to express but I am beginning to wonder now if men are just more content living life in a much less deep emotional landscape than women and prefer to keep things superficial?

I would say you are 30 years too late to be expecting any change. You should have told him these things were not acceptable years ago. When I met my now H he was a bit like this but through being together and me training explaining to him how things feel he is tip top now.

Socialisation. It’s getting better but by and large boys are told to suppress their feelings with anger being generally the only socially acceptable emotion. It’s incredibly sad for them and puts a huge emotional strain on them - I’m thinking of specifically high(er) suicide rates amongst men.

The dog thing is a weird thing - my boss who is late fifties was more visibly emotional about his dog dying than when his dad died.

I think there are two realistic reasons:

(1) He's just not a person of emotional depth 🤷‍♀️. I've dated around. Most men (in the dating pool) are like this. Sometimes I wonder if they're actually alive or not. Id have a greater chance of emotionally connecting with my breakfast than with them.

(2) He's scared. Again, a lot of men are. It actually takes a lot of masculinity to be open and out your feelings out there, and show yourself as you are, ready to be rejected.

I agree with the above though. Either way, after 30 years, he's not going to change!

Thanks for your reply ChickenStripper. He wasn't as bad as this when we were young and we have been busy with work, DC and elderly parents since so it wasn't as noticeable until now.

I am happy for you that you found a solution to this problem as soon as it arose but I am not sure "you should have done a, b or c replies" are very helpful when I am seeking ways to move forward in the present moment. I am not perfect and maybe I should have done many things differently in the past, but I can't go back in time, so I am asking for some insights to help me understand my situation now.

He sounds like a lovely guy (that's not sarcasm - I genuinely mean it).

almond123 thank you . 1. Made me laugh . 2. Is a definite possibility I suppose but he comes from a very loving family and didn't go to boarding school or anything so I don't understand why he would be scared other than the general fear we all feel when we express ourselves.

LeroyJenkinssss that's a good point about male suicide. Socialisation would explain it among his social circle. Perhaps there is a certain amount of pride when you are in a privileged position that you are responsible for yourself and don't ask for help. But surely this shouldn't extend to your wife? I was brought up to think that marriage is about shouldering one another's burdens and helping each other.

ChickenStripper it's depressing to think he won't change now but if that is the case, at least it's clear that it is up to me how I respond to it.

I can't get over the fact that he doesn't want to share his feelings though. Surely it makes life much more comfortable. You chat in bed and express concerns. Not moaning all the time but bouncing ideas back and forth, exchanging feedback. Isn't that just an easier way to live?

@Hbh17

He sounds like a lovely guy (that's not sarcasm - I genuinely mean it).

He is! Thank you Hbh17 I am lucky in many ways. Maybe I am expecting too much.

I think that you’re wanting something that you’re not going to get. He isn’t going to change now, and you’ll tie yourself up in knots trying to psychoanalyse him.

Thank you GeneLovesJezebel maybe you are right. I don't want to psychoanalyse him really but understand more about men in general. I met him when I was very young so haven't had a lot of experience of other men.

I don't think this is a man thing. In all honesty I'd hate to have 'emotional' conversations all the time. Benign chat about the news is just fine for me and dh. I guess I don't need the drama.

Men were (and perhaps often still are) brought up differently from women. Expectations of them as to what expressions of feeling were/are acceptable were/are set by fathers and mothers and other adults early in life. It's not the individual's fault.

I agree with Carbies. I remember when a guy I was dating got all upset and said “you never tell me what you’re thinking or tell me about your feelings, and I want to know what’s inside your head and heart.”

And I just thought, why would we talk about my feelings? I’m happy and content and find my life interesting and fulfilling 98.5% of the time. I take my life as it comes at me and I don’t worry about the future or stress about things I can’t control. I don’t have any “feelings” or anything “in my heart” to talk to with anyone about beyond that. I’d much rather talk about a train journey I once took from Moscow to Vladivostok; or the weird hotel you stayed at when you booked last minute in Eastbourne; or a really good recipe for Japanese omelette - or because that’s the stuff I’m usually thinking about. I don’t have hidden fathoms of depth.

Are you sure there’s not just a bit of that going on? That he isn’t somebody who derives an “emotional connection” from deep and meaningfuls about his inner self? A lot of people seem to think that a good relationship is one where there’s always something emotional and deep going on and forget that actually, the best and kind of relationship with the greatest depth is the one where you’re just at ease with each other. The depth comes through shared experiences and with time, and as you spend more time in each other’s company, the connection comes that way. It certainly does with me, anyway.

I mean, I don’t know your husband, he could also be emotionally stunted. But he doesn’t sound any different to me or many of the men and women I know, so I’m not sure it’s a “man thing.”

Thank you for reply Carbiesdreamhouse I explained carefully in op that I don't want emotional conversations "all the time" either! Once every five years would be nice though . I am not seeking drama, I just want to know where I am with him, what he is thinking or feeling occasionally. Is that too much to ask?

I don't know, I'm married to similar. I have realised over time that while he doesn't talk about emotions, he does feel. My view is he's a good person and I don't expect my marriage to be completely immersive. Some people are lucky to have found their soul mate. I don't feel that's me. Instead I take a pragmatic view and bolster my life with friendships that offer what my marriage can't. We have a good relationship on the whole. It might not have depth, but we rub along ok.

Anyway, watching this thread with interest.

It’s toxic masculinity innit. And I don’t think it’s getting better either. With teen boys today having access to extreme porn day in day out at such a young age it’s shaping their views and attitudes to women in a deeply misogynistic way.

That's interesting ComtesseDeSpair thank you. I hear what you are saying but that's not what is going on. I would be equally put off if a man said "I want to be in your head and heart" and think it too intrusive. We are similar in that regard. We are very at ease together, pottering about. We are fairly active, we don't like sitting doing nothing, but there are no awkward silences.

I just find myself wondering if this is it. Does he need nothing more? And because I don't hear any affectionate words from him, I'm lacking in certainty about what he thinks about our relationship. Because I hear nothing, I find myself filling in the gaps. Maybe he is miserable and doesn't like to say it? Maybe he is content? Who knows?

There are many threads on here about men who just up and leave after 30 years without discussion. I don't have a sense that DH wants to do this, not at all actually, but maybe those women didn't either?

Why didn't those men discuss how unhappy they were before they left for example? I would like to know that.

Grantanow that is a very important point. I don't think he is doing this intentionally at all! At least I don't think so. To be honest, he is a fairly closed book. He could be a spy and I wouldn't know it.

But what do you want an "adult" conversation about?

• I love you
• aww, that's lovely. I love you too

Do you just want him to say this sort of thing more often? or do you want him to trace in intricate detail all the times when he's sat and pondered whether he'd still love you if shot a terrorist or whatever or worried about how he'll feel if you get dementia? Or do you think you should be explaining to each other what exactly in your earlier lives has led you to the point where you have these feelings?

Quite frankly, part of the attraction of "adult" conversation is that you don't have to do all the tedious navel-gazing stuff that adolescents are so fond of (I think I'm almost certainly on the spectrum, btw ).

I mean, if you have actual concerns about how his love is manifesting, then yes, he needs to engage with that; but that's not talking about emotions, that's talking practicalities.

OP - I read your post with interest. I am also not English but know many men like your husband as I have lived in the U.K. for a very long time. I think it is a cultural thing among (upper) middle class English men. It is taboo for some reason to have a serious conversation about things that really matter, to reveal one's feelings when there might be the potential for hurt or conflict. It is not coldness per se because they can be very friendly and even warm (and certainly funny) but there is an absence of true meaning and connection. I was left thinking at times, I've known you for years and I still have no idea who you actually are as a person.

Maybe this is because they genuinely don't have anything going on beneath the surface but I find that hard to believe. All human beings have complexities and depths.

I don't have any advice but wanted to say I get where you are coming from.

cross-post with @ComtesseDeSpair there!

@Invitationtoclose88

I have always assumed that the feelings are all there, under the surface, but are difficult to express but I am beginning to wonder now if men are just more content living life in a much less deep emotional landscape than women and prefer to keep things superficial?

I’m a man, and I (personally) think the above is rubbish, of course we (men), have feelings about all aspects of life, but generally don’t feel (no pun intended), to air our feelings, I know my feelings as I feel them !
As for having a “Deep emotional landscape”, sounds like you are describing a painting rather than a person

Cowboybebop thenk you. You have hit the nail on the head there! That's exactly it. It's not just about affection. It's also about a willingness to discuss anything deeply. Maybe it is a class thing? I wouldn't know because I am not English!

merryhouse there's acres of space between adolescent lovey dovey gushing stuff on the one side and being closed off on the other though. Maybe an affectionate nickname? A sincere enquiry as to how the other is feeling? The occasional compliment, or yes, the occasional 'I love you' would be nice to hear. What's wrong with that? That's not navel gazing or indulgent is it?

I thought I had posted this but evidently not!

I appreciate a man's perspective HowlongWillThisTakeNow and I suspected it might be total rubbish tbh!

I guess I should change the question then to "why do men feel less need to share their feelings than women?" Why are they more self contained?

I would genuinely like to know! If you are frustrated for example why clamp your lip? Why not say simply "I feel angry about this?" Is there a loss of face involved in having feelings? Is it less masculine somehow? Surely it's just human?

I am not taking about complaining all of the time but there is a balance to be struck.

Btw "emotional landscape" is quite a commonly used phrase.

@LeroyJenkinssss

Socialisation. It’s getting better but by and large boys are told to suppress their feelings with anger being generally the only socially acceptable emotion. It’s incredibly sad for them and puts a huge emotional strain on them - I’m thinking of specifically high(er) suicide rates amongst men.

The dog thing is a weird thing - my boss who is late fifties was more visibly emotional about his dog dying than when his dad died.

I don't agree, I think male suicides are connected to relationship breakdown, loss of familial connection with children etc. Exacerbated by substance abuse. As a male, I'm quite expressive, however I do find it goes unheard by our partners. So we detach. Men in general do talk to each other about relationships but only so far, as most have a code of honour. Keeping problems between within the boundaries of the Union. I've had close friends confide in me over the how humiliated they feel by their wife's behaviour. But know one likes to talk about being disregarded by their partners. Another point of note is, some situations just do not illicit an emotional response, men often feel women become het up over trivia, we call this drama.

@Invitationtoclose88
I guess I should change the question then to "why do men feel less need to share their feelings than women?" Why are they more self contained?

I suppose I could reverse the question and say “why do women feel the constantly need to share their feelings”, ? “ Why Do women need constant emotional validation, why are you not more self dependent? “

Possibly I’m not very good person to ask as I generally have no problem telling ppl what I think or how I feel, BUT , only when I feel the need to (no pun intended). I generally don’t discuss my feelings & thoughts with strangers so maybe I am emotional Luddite with no landscape