Why are men so closed, or emotionless and cut off from their feelings?

[Invitationtoclose88]

This is a generalisation but I think it is fair to say that men in general have more difficulty expressing feelings than women do. Certainly British men who are in their sixties now. I hope things are changing for the better among younger men..

Can I start with a disclaimer that I am not someone who emotes all over the place generally. I try and be reasonable and emotionally continent most of the time and try and understand my husband's pov without squeezing it out of him. I don't cry often. If I show any emotion at all it is anger that flares brightly but then is over very quickly.

My husband on the other hand hardly shows any emotion ever. He is NT , he is not autistic in case anyone is thinking that. He is what I would describe for the sake of giving context, a typical upper middle class English man who speaks with great tenderness and love to his dogs but finds it hard to express emotion to me his wife. He has jokey male friendships and is expansive and funny with colleagues but I wouldn't say he is close to anyone really except me. The friendships he does have he found through me. He does show his love for me in various practical ways and our sex life is fine but I am not English and after 30 years of marriage, I find this all a bit cold as I would like some affection and sense of closeness outside of the bedroom. I rarely raise emotional subjects and he doesn't make me feel silly when I do, he just finds it hard to comprehend what I am trying to say. I guess he is just very independent and self contained. I do love him very much but it's hard to keep loving someone who doesn't seem to need you emotionally.

He only starts conversations with me about benign general subjects such as the news, the food he eats, maybe travel and the odd work problem. He doesn't like talking about emotions or "us". I am a grown up and pragmatic that we are not in the first flush of romance but just occasionally, it would be nice to have a close adult conversation. We joke about things but it's not the same.

I have good female friendships where I can talk about things that are important to me, but I suppose I feel a bit lost at this point in my life. After a lifetime of raising children, I thought my DH and I would grow closer together. I thought he he did need me emotionally but I am no longer sure.

I would like to try and understand why men behave like this, what is behind it, whether I am doing something wrong, if there is a better way of understanding this? Can any men on Mumsnet , as well as women, enlighten me? I have always assumed that the feelings are all there, under the surface, but are difficult to express but I am beginning to wonder now if men are just more content living life in a much less deep emotional landscape than women and prefer to keep things superficial?

Thanks Eddielizzard that's a very pragmatic approach. Do you mind asking whether you feel a bit lonely sometimes because I know I do?

That's deeply depressing Rollergirl11

I don't think anyone would expect you to share thoughts and feelings with strangers HowlongWillThisTakeNow but I don't think it's a hugely unreasonable expectation of a bloke in a 30 year marriage.

Hrpuffnstuff1 Thank you for the loyalty code information which is useful to know.
You are saying that it is women's fault that men don't share because we disregard them and humiliate them?

I hope I would do the opposite of that if my husband chose to share his deepest thoughts with me.

I would feel very honoured that he had chosen to share them.

I agree with you about men and relationship breakdowns because I have worked in the area of homelessness where there is a lot of addiction among both sexes (drink & drinks) but more so among the men. It's difficult to tell whether that is the cause of the breakdown or the effect.

I hate to say it but in ordinary life it is my experience that women have more friends and are more socially connected because they put the effort in. We are the ones that send the Christmas cards, make sure Aunt Joan is not alone at Christmas, do the cooking, issue the invitations, initiate the visits, do the hard graft of hosting, attend the weddings and funerals, oil the social wheels. But that's just my opinion.

drink and drugs

@Invitationtoclose88

Thanks for your reply ChickenStripper. He wasn't as bad as this when we were young and we have been busy with work, DC and elderly parents since so it wasn't as noticeable until now.

I am happy for you that you found a solution to this problem as soon as it arose but I am not sure "you should have done a, b or c replies" are very helpful when I am seeking ways to move forward in the present moment. I am not perfect and maybe I should have done many things differently in the past, but I can't go back in time, so I am asking for some insights to help me understand my situation now.

Actually you didn't ask for ways to move forward - you said you were trying to understand it. What I said WAS relevant as you have lived like this for 30 years and have allowed this person to be like this with you. You therefore cannot generalise about all men and especially British ones. To have a balanced relationship you need to both lay down expectations and acceptable behaviours and work to these.

What I would also add is that men are not immune to their feelings but historically have been actively encouraged not to show them. Hopefully today we are in a better place.

If it's not broke don't try to fix it

I'm very private and not an emoter. And I'm a woman. If a partner was trying to get me to expose my innermost thoughts all the time, I'd hate it. No-one is entitled to my thoughts and feelings beyond what I choose to share.

I don't believe that one has to emote to have a loving relationship. My late husband and I had 35 years of very happy marriage. We were on the same page though. If either of us has been looking for someone who wanted to talk about their innermost thoughts regularly, we wouldn't have chosen each other. Our love and connection worked in other ways.

Sorry, I do recognise that you said that you don't emote all over the place, OP. So I should probably have expressed my post differently. But at a lesser level, I still think that some of us are more private about expressing stuff than others, and it feels intrusive when someone tries to dig more out of us.

"big boys don't cry" and bollocks like that don't help. As children girls and boys are treated very differently re their emotions and sadly it is still the case that boys much much more than girls get negative reactions if they display emotions. Girls - cry - weak - emotional - hysterical - etc
Boys - strong - manly - don't cry - crying is weak and 'girly' - etc

There is a shift away from that for children nowadays (although not enough, there is still too much of that attitude in society) but 20, 30, 40 years ago? The different ways girls and boys were 'allowed' to have/show emotion were much more strongly reenforced.

@Carbiesdreamhouse

I don't think this is a man thing. In all honesty I'd hate to have 'emotional' conversations all the time. Benign chat about the news is just fine for me and dh. I guess I don't need the drama.

Me too - I find emotional conversations utterly cringeworthy. I'm English, so maybe this is a national trait? I couldn't bear some touchy-feely guy though who wanted to emote and discuss feelings all the time and I think if this is what you want/need OP you may need to find yourself another, non-English, guy!

Reading back I have put that really badly and not explained what I mean clearly. It's seen as ok and expected for girls to be emotional although the way girls are seen for being emotional is negative - weak, emotional etc but 'forgiven' for it cos they're girls which brings a whole host of problems for girls and women.

But boys if they show emotions are downgraded (iyswim) to girls which is the absolute worst thing in these people's eyes. A boy who shows emotion? What a girl

There's misogyny and all sorts in there

I have made a complete fuckup of trying to explain what I mean so I'm going to go have coffee and beat myself up about it 🙄 but I hope people manage to wade through and get what I'm trying to say.

I hate to say it but in ordinary life it is my experience that women have more friends and are more socially connected because they put the effort in. We are the ones that send the Christmas cards, make sure Aunt Joan is not alone at Christmas, do the cooking, issue the invitations, initiate the visits, do the hard graft of hosting, attend the weddings and funerals, oil the social wheels. But that's just my opinion.

I think this is true and not true at the same time, but mostly true.
When my Dad retired from work he became quite isolated and a bit lonely until he died, which was sad for me, so I work quite hard to ensure I have a wider group of friends and acquaintances

Well tbh my DH is affectionate and will tell me he loves me. If I didn't have that then I think I would feel a lot worse. I don't want to have emotional or deep convos all the time, but I think once in 20 years wouldn't go amiss. Just the ability to reflect on a seriously weird upbringing instead of pretending that everything was fine and normal. My DH has a need to fix everything. Everything is a problem that needs to be sorted out, so we can never just reflect on anything. He also gets upset if people don't follow his very narrow advice. He is getting better at that tho.

I don't feel lonely per se, I just don't feel understood. Perhaps that's the same thing? And I don't understand how he is about things, because he won't talk about the past and how events affected him. Since those aren't acknowledged, bad patterns keep repeating. So there is a lack of emotional intimacy. Yes.

What does he say when you bring this up as an issue?

I think there are different types.

I have some sympathy with the type who was brought up in a society where men are not encourage to share/verbalise their feelings but who is a genuinely good guy whose loves and cares for you even if he is not quite able to be emotionally articulate.

Then there is the other type who does not show emotion because they basically deep down are not fond of women and just see them as there to cater for their needs and not really as equal human beings...

Personally I don't really like people who talk about their feelings all the time to the point where it becomes tedious and I much prefer people who are quiet and steady but who show you they care by treating you decently and being there when you need them.

If you don’t feel he offers you enough verbal affection or you need to hear from him that you’re loved in as many words, that’s something you can raise with him and he can certainly learn to do it - understanding your partner’s needs and learning how to meet them is a basic part of being in a relationship, even if that means teaching yourself behaviours which don’t come naturally.

But I don’t think this is a “man thing” as much as it is a “love languages” thing, and the two of you have different ones. Yours is clearly “words of affirmation”; but it’s likely he thinks he does show you love regularly, but because his way of showing it isn’t in words, you interpret him as emotionless.

Plus I’m a woman and I’m really struggling to get my head around the idea of why or how I’d talk about my emotions (unless specifically sad or angry or anxious, none of which happen to me very often) or what a “deep” discussion would look like. When you say “willingness to discuss anything deeply”, what is it you’d like him to discuss with you? It sounds more like he doesn’t process emotion by talking about it, as opposed to being emotionless or closed off.

Are you a Gemini?

I know English men across a whole range from "never willing to be serious about anything" to "shares deep emotions daily with those they're close to". Not all of them are like him! I do have a friend in a marriage with one like your husband though, they went to a really nice relationship counsellor for a few sessions to help them understand each other better. I think they're both more secure and aware of each other's needs now. So don't necessarily think it's "too late".

Maybe you could also be more clear with yourself and him about what you need. If you don't get told he loves you or given words of affection, no wonder you find it hard! If you see the dog being told she's a lovely girl and a fabulous runner and you don't even get told you look nice after a haircut or that he appreciates you and your relationship, it must be very annoying and quite sad.

But instead of generally thinking/saying he's "emotionless" you could try saying to him "if you don't tell me that you love me, I don't always feel loved, could you make an effort to express how you feel about me/our life at least sometimes?" He may not have joined the dots and just assumes you "know".

@Invitationtoclose88 - Levine's book about attachments may be a useful read. Also Google 'avoidance attachment style'.

@Invitationtoclose88

I think we each project our individual preferences onto others.

When you wrote:
I would genuinely like to know! If you are frustrated for example why clamp your lip? Why not say simply "I feel angry about this?" Is there a loss of face involved in having feelings? Is it less masculine somehow? Surely it's just human?

it may be because for you sharing is part of a therapeutic process, it helps you feel better. But imagine if it didn't, if rehashing something frustrated made you stressed all over again. In this case, why would you?

Having said this, have you tried a non-judgemental conversation asking in general terms, do you think that " men are just more content living life in a much less deep emotional landscape than women and prefer to keep things superficial?"

I used to be very put off by male emotional constipation, but I honestly prefer it now. In recent years I've met a few guys who were very "in tune with their emotions" and wanted to talk about feelings, innermost thoughts, vulnerabilities etc. It seemed very refreshing in the beginning but all of them turned out to be manipulative jerks, and one of them was downright abusive. These days I would interpret lots of feelingstalk from a man as a red flag.

My male viewpoint; I’m very happy to express emotion, indeed I can be quite emotionally febrile.
I like to have a bit of speculative gossip about other people’s emotions as much as the next person, but poring over the psychological and emotional minutiae of behaviour and social dynamics, however, bores me to tears.
An analogy; riding a motorbike is fun.
Talking about motorbikes is boring.

Thanks for your response Palmfrond noted that's it's not all mean by any means - I did say in my op that it was a generalisation!

Believe me, I agree with you! I don't want to pore over "psychological and emotional minutiae" either! That is very far from what I am talking about here. Same regarding the manipulative over-sharing that ILikeToSleepALot mentions. I wouldn't like that either. I am talking about normal, day-to-day openness, the basic transactions between two married people.

Thank you Specsandflowers and BowerOfBramble those are very interesting perspectives and very helpful. I would hate to cause him more stress than he already has in his life as he has a stressful job. And thank you for those new approaches ; both excellent suggestions.

And thank you FlowerArranger I will have a look!

[There are certainly quite a few posters with horticulturally inclined nicknames on this thread ]

Derelicthome no!

Sorry that was a typo Palmfrond not all men by any means!

Following with interest as you could be describing my dh OP (except he's only 50 yo and doesn't have a dog!)

I've always assumed, like you, that he keeps his feelings to himself because of some ingrained ideas about masculinity or whatever but I'm starting to become more of the mindset that he actually doesn't really have any emotional depth. He has told me himself that he's very black and white and doesn't ruminate over things. I meanwhile, am quite a deep thinker (and closet amateur psychologist!) and I find it hard to deal with. I sometimes feel like I have to remind him how to feel or act in certain situations as he just doesn't respond in a "normal" way. I do suspect possible ADHD though - sorry, I know this is always the go-to excuse but I did an online adhd test as if I were him answering the questions honestly (he would never actually do one of these tests himself) and came out in the highest score bracket.

I don't have much to suggest but wanted to let you know I can empathise and agree it's very lonely sometimes.
I often feel I have much better conversations with friends and family, regularly feel very bored by the conversations we have together (always surrounding his work, what's in the news etc) and sometimes dread the future when the dc's have all left home. That sounds really awful and I do love him, he is really good in many ways - but I worry that we never seem to have an emotional connection. Everything is very "surface".
He becomes visibly uncomfortable is I talk about "feelings" and sometimes tries to get up and walk away!

I'm not a drama queen by any stretch of the imagination and bite my tongue 90% so as not to get on his nerves but I just sometimes think "is this it"?

No one can be all things to their partner. Your DH doesn’t verbally share his emotions and deepest feelings. That’s part of who he is and at sixty plus, it would be unfair to demand such a personality change now just to meet your need for a person to share these with. Counselling would help you find a middle ground, look up languages of love. Many people do not show love by talking. To meet your need, there is nothing wrong with having a close friend you can share deepest feelings and emotions with. Partners are never perfect, we all have needs they meet and needs they do not meet which us why a social network and friendships are so so important to maintain.

I know you acknowledged this was a generalisation op, and I honestly expected to read lots of responses saying NOT all men are like this, so I'm surprised at all the responses.

My father (late 80s), uncles (older), DH, are all quite emotionally-aware and happy to talk. It isn't a complaint any of my friends have made about their husbands to my knowledge.

I know that doesn't help, but IME, it's far from a majority of men who are like this. However, for those who are - I agree, it's all about upbringing. There is hope for the future though.